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  #41  
Old 05.06.2009, 14:03
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Re: Pedestrian Crossings

I think it's safer when pedestrians migrate across the road in herds. Now this is a pedestrian crossing - safety in numbers!

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  #42  
Old 05.06.2009, 14:18
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Re: Pedestrian Crossings

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It has to also be remembered that it is much easier for a pedestrian to stop then for a 1.5 ton moving vehicle.
I agree. I always wonder so...and each time a car stops excusively for me, I feel a trifle guilty. The enegry lost, and the wear and tear to car and road each time a car brakes, exceeds that of a human stopping, pausing and then crossing, by a factor of 100.

As for onus of responsibility, a pedestrian can see 360 deg without much effort, and a car is big and bright and easy to spot. A car driver on the other hand can see only see through the windscreen...much harder to spot a pedestrian.

But what about elderly pedestrians who can't walk/see well?
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  #43  
Old 05.06.2009, 15:53
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Re: Pedestrian Crossings

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I agree. I always wonder so...and each time a car stops excusively for me, I feel a trifle guilty. The enegry lost, and the wear and tear to car and road each time a car brakes, exceeds that of a human stopping, pausing and then crossing, by a factor of 100.

As for onus of responsibility, a pedestrian can see 360 deg without much effort, and a car is big and bright and easy to spot. A car driver on the other hand can see only see through the windscreen...much harder to spot a pedestrian.

But what about elderly pedestrians who can't walk/see well?

Yes, and what about children and others that for whatever reason are not good at judging speed and distance. I'm all for pedestrian crossings but in the right place. They should be properly thought out, ideally with railings to aid traffic seperation and to stop children running into the road.

On this same topic, where we live the local council (presumably) came round and over the course of a few days removed all of the orange zebra crossings in the settlement. We assumed they would be replaced by some some new and improved system but no, they just removed the old ones makng the area less safe. WTF?
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  #44  
Old 05.06.2009, 16:13
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Re: Pedestrian Crossings

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Yes, and what about children and others that for whatever reason are not good at judging speed and distance.
Especially given that this is a country which feels OK to let 5 year olds and 6 year olds to fend for themselves on streets and has a sizeable aged population.

That's why I dream of the day when everyone will be either on public transport or bicycles, removing the root cause of accidents and other bad things. A utopian dream at the moment, though.
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  #45  
Old 05.06.2009, 16:19
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Re: Pedestrian Crossings

yeah, we only need those pedestrian crossings because of the cars. so why not get rid of the cars ...
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  #46  
Old 05.06.2009, 19:06
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yeah, we only need those pedestrian crossings because of the cars. so why not get rid of the cars ...
I'm all for pedestrian power but that's going too far Sada. Maybe Nature can teach us a lesson. Some of the most venomous creatures in the world are brightly coloured to warn off would be aggressors from messing with them. Others have a sting in their tail. The skunk on the other hand arches its back points its rear end at the aggressor and squirts a sticky, evil-smelling liquid from large anal glands which can hit a predator 30 ft away with a following wind.

Pedestrians could mimick Nature by wearing reflective jumpsuits and a cap with a flashing strobe light. If this doesn't ward off aggressive motorists they should have the right to use armed force against drivers who choose to ignore these warning signs. Respect. It's all about fostering mutual respect
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  #47  
Old 05.06.2009, 19:18
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Re: Pedestrian Crossings

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I'm all for pedestrian power but that's going too far Sada. Maybe Nature can teach us a lesson. Some of the most venomous creatures in the world are brightly coloured to warn off would be aggressors from messing with them. Others have a sting in their tail. The skunk on the other hand arches its back points its rear end at the aggressor and squirts a sticky, evil-smelling liquid from large anal glands which can hit a predator 30 ft away with a following wind.

Pedestrians could mimick Nature by wearing reflective jumpsuits and a cap with a flashing strobe light. If this doesn't ward off aggressive motorists they should have the right to use armed force against drivers who choose to ignore these warning signs. Respect. It's all about fostering mutual respect
Reflective bands and headlights are passe; many joggers and pedestrians already use such defensive tactics .

Current thinking inspired by military strategy is deterrence and to do on the offensive first. Practical solutions offered in the last two days include carrying a sword for cyclists (DB), and pebbles/ball bearing to hurl at car windshields (I forget the name). More innovative ideas are welcome
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  #48  
Old 05.06.2009, 19:29
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Re: Pedestrian Crossings

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I'm all for pedestrian power but that's going too far Sada. Maybe Nature can teach us a lesson. Some of the most venomous creatures in the world are brightly coloured to warn off would be aggressors from messing with them. Others have a sting in their tail. The skunk on the other hand arches its back points its rear end at the aggressor and squirts a sticky, evil-smelling liquid from large anal glands which can hit a predator 30 ft away with a following wind.

Pedestrians could mimick Nature by wearing reflective jumpsuits and a cap with a flashing strobe light. If this doesn't ward off aggressive motorists they should have the right to use armed force against drivers who choose to ignore these warning signs. Respect. It's all about fostering mutual respect
Hang on, in nature it's the dangerous/poisonous creatures that are brightly coloured... Doesn't that mean that to mimic nature, all cars should be flourescent orange and pedestrians should wear camoflage rather than bright clothing? Cars do a lot more harm to a pedestrian than a pedestrian does to a car!

I have to agree with the mutual respect - and when I'm on foot, I tend to have a lot of respect for 1.5 tonnes of steel moving at speed! I also feel a touch guilty when a car stops for me - especially when there's not much traffic around, so much so that I will tend to stay away from the crossing until the road is clear to avoid making cars stop.

Last edited by Dave874y; 05.06.2009 at 22:04. Reason: removed an extra 'pedestrians'
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  #49  
Old 05.06.2009, 19:30
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Re: Pedestrian Crossings

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yeah, we only need those pedestrian crossings because of the cars. so why not get rid of the cars ...
But seriously I think if the number of cars is reduced there will be less stressful/frustrated drivers on the road, more courtesy and bonhomie, and in general people will be happier and safer. Not that any car user will care a rats's behind for that, though
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  #50  
Old 05.06.2009, 19:34
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Re: Pedestrian Crossings

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Hang on, in nature it's the dangerous/poisonous creatures that are brightly coloured... Doesn't that mean that to mimic nature, all cars should be flourescent orange and pedestrians should wear camoflage rather than pedestrians bright clothing? Cars do a lot more harm to a pedestrian than a pedestrian does to a car!
No, elephants and rhinos don't camouflage, it is the snakes and insects that need to camouflage or develop deterents fluids.

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I have to agree with the mutual respect - and when I'm on foot, I tend to have a lot of respect for 1.5 tonnes of steel moving at speed! I also feel a touch guilty when a car stops for me - especially when there's not much traffic around, so much so that I will tend to stay away from the crossing until the road is clear to avoid making cars stop.

Bang on; I do likewise
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  #51  
Old 05.06.2009, 19:56
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Re: Pedestrian Crossings

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Cars do a lot more harm to a pedestrian than a pedestrian does to a car!
Not when the pedestrian's packing a .44 magnum. Go on punk...make my day
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  #52  
Old 05.06.2009, 21:50
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Re: Pedestrian Crossings

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But seriously I think if the number of cars is reduced there will be less stressful/frustrated drivers on the road, more courtesy and bonhomie, and in general people will be happier and safer. Not that any car user will care a rats's behind for that, though
Nah, then you'll have public transport rage. Ever spent a nice commute squished on a full bus with screaming children and people who don't know what a shower is?
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  #53  
Old 06.06.2009, 00:40
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Re: Pedestrian Crossings

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But seriously I think if the number of cars is reduced there will be less stressful/frustrated drivers on the road, more courtesy and bonhomie, and in general people will be happier and safer. Not that any car user will care a rats's behind for that, though
What tosh, I had to negotiate a rush hour train and tram journey into Zurich this evening, and let me tell you the air conditioned neutrality of a car was way better than the hustle, barging, cost and of stink of what I experienced tonight.

But on topic, ped's have way more vulnerablity than any other road user, and supposesly greater visual/aural awareness (but quite how when your heads in an ipod escapes me) yet everyone else must yield to them. When the beardies take off the rose tints and earphones maybe, just maybe, they will see that they have a larger share of the accountability for road safety than they feel they should have.

Ergo - it's always easier to blame someone else
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  #54  
Old 06.06.2009, 09:45
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Re: Pedestrian Crossings

Indeed a bit of colour and a bit of aggression might do some good to protect pedestrians.
I would paint those 4-5 stripes in screeming (fluorescent at night) colours for example. Or would put up a system like spikes coming up on each side of that pedestrian crossing, whenever someone crosses, you know which would make it look like a little bridge ... but then I don't dare imagine how many folks would use that as a playground.

So I guess yes, it comes down to respecting each, which of course is just about as utopic as my spike bridge.


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I'm all for pedestrian power but that's going too far Sada. Maybe Nature can teach us a lesson. Some of the most venomous creatures in the world are brightly coloured to warn off would be aggressors from messing with them. Others have a sting in their tail. The skunk on the other hand arches its back points its rear end at the aggressor and squirts a sticky, evil-smelling liquid from large anal glands which can hit a predator 30 ft away with a following wind.

Pedestrians could mimick Nature by wearing reflective jumpsuits and a cap with a flashing strobe light. If this doesn't ward off aggressive motorists they should have the right to use armed force against drivers who choose to ignore these warning signs. Respect. It's all about fostering mutual respect
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  #55  
Old 06.06.2009, 09:55
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Re: Pedestrian Crossings

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What tosh, I had to negotiate a rush hour train and tram journey into Zurich this evening, and let me tell you the air conditioned neutrality of a car was way better than the hustle, barging, cost and of stink of what I experienced tonight.

But on topic, ped's have way more vulnerablity than any other road user, and supposesly greater visual/aural awareness (but quite how when your heads in an ipod escapes me) yet everyone else must yield to them. When the beardies take off the rose tints and earphones maybe, just maybe, they will see that they have a larger share of the accountability for road safety than they feel they should have.

Ergo - it's always easier to blame someone else
Greater visual awareness doesn't always help when drivers don't indicate, give confusing signals like accelerating at crossings, only to jam on the anchors at the last possible second or slowing down, but still rolling through the crossing, drive up onto the pavement to avoid waiting for oncoming traffic when a road is reduced to a single lane by parked cars, people not waiting for the road ahead to clear before going through a junction, thus being stuck on the crossing as the lights change for the pedestrians, etc.
As a driver, it's your job to watch for everything around you. If they can't see ahead to note someone appraoching a crossing they're driving towards, or feel that speed limits and stopping for crossings don't apply to them, then maybe they should hand back their licence.
However, people are supposed to share 30% of their DNA with lettuces. Having looked at the way pedestrians go about crossing roads in the city centre, I'd say it's often up to 70%. Even so, the law says the driver carries the can for any accident, so people should drive as if they remember this.
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  #56  
Old 06.06.2009, 10:17
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Re: Pedestrian Crossings

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Greater visual awareness doesn't always help when drivers don't indicate, give confusing signals like accelerating at crossings, only to jam on the anchors at the last possible second or slowing down, but still rolling through the crossing, drive up onto the pavement to avoid waiting for oncoming traffic when a road is reduced to a single lane by parked cars, people not waiting for the road ahead to clear before going through a junction, thus being stuck on the crossing as the lights change for the pedestrians, etc.
As a driver, it's your job to watch for everything around you. If they can't see ahead to note someone appraoching a crossing they're driving towards, or feel that speed limits and stopping for crossings don't apply to them, then maybe they should hand back their licence.
However, people are supposed to share 30% of their DNA with lettuces. Having looked at the way pedestrians go about crossing roads in the city centre, I'd say it's often up to 70%. Even so, the law says the driver carries the can for any accident, so people should drive as if they remember this.
There are 4rseholes behind the wheel and a pied and that will sadly never change. I got no time for the bad drivers who behave as you mentioned, and feel the same about weaving cyclists and unthinks ped's, but you'll never hear a car say ouch quite like pedestrian should they meet. So whilst Swiss law dumps the responsibility on the driver, common sense says crossing a road is can be hazzardous, and I would never abdicate my safety to someone else... whether I'm walking, driving or cycling.

Last edited by Papa Goose; 06.06.2009 at 12:41.
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  #57  
Old 03.09.2009, 04:29
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Nearly ran over last night

What the F***?

I'm seriously thinking of taking photos of the cars who do not stop at the pedestrian zones and report them at once! Another option would be to carry eggs in my bag and throw them at these useless and brainless drivers' cars or better yet throw in front of their cars' wheels these very nice ninja nails known to be very effective...

Seriously talking now...I was nearly run over last night, as i tried to use the pedestrian crossing, by a granny who was trying to overcome the tram in order not to get held by the traffic light...This has been happening more & more the last year...these swiss drivers have become more & more impatient I've noticed... What a pity!!! Oh yes...and apart from having no patience they really suck at parking their car even with the help of parking sensors...! They do give me a good laugh..!

So b careful when using the pedestrian crossing... a granny may be coming!
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  #58  
Old 03.09.2009, 07:38
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Re: Nearly ran over last night

The yellow stripes are not a green light to myopic pedestrians. Cross when you're sure it's safe and you'll live longer.

I do agree that drivers tend to not GAS about peds - better to be peed off that they did not stop as that's better than being run the feck over
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  #59  
Old 03.09.2009, 07:54
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Re: Nearly ran over last night

Hi,

I know what you mean, really I think that a lot of drivers and cyclists think that pedestrians are there for target practice. The number of times when cars do not slow down when approaching a pedestrian crossing or even increase their speed when coming up to a crossing is frightening. If you should ever slip when on the crossing you would be dead as it is extremely rare for a car to completely stop at the crossing or be going sufficiently slowly that they could stop quickly if something happened. It is incredible to me that there are not more accidents at crossings.

I have no idea what they teach people here when they are learning drive but expecting the unexpected is not one of them and certainly respect for pedestrians is another thing that must be missing from lessons.

Bikes can be even worse and never stop.

Have fun

Martin
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  #60  
Old 22.09.2009, 12:58
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Re: Pedestrian Crossings

Handbag: CHF30
Convertible: CHF90,000

Expression of driver and granny: Priceless
(and the giggling in the background after airbag pops out)

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