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  #41  
Old 08.07.2009, 14:21
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Re: Swiss and their attitude to queuing

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I'm kind of over the whole queue / non-queue thing here by now but one thing I can't get past is the "non-reciprocal swerving" which seems to be endemic the further south in Europe you go.

This is the situation where you are heading towards someone coming in the opposite direction, usually in a narrow area or crowded street and instincts tell you to swerve one way or the other to let them past. Here I sometimes have to actively jump out of the way because the oncoming person is hellbent on continuing on a collision course at ram-speed.

Out of curiosity I have also tried continuing on the same course to see if I was just too early with my dodge but gave that experiment up after too many bashes to the handbag and/or shoulder.

And if you don't make contact you often find yourself squeezed against a wall or shop window or something.

Am I the only one who has experienced this? Perhaps as a dull Brit I am transparent to the other more colourful southern Europeans?

I would normally shrug it off but it's happened a couple of times when I have been carrying my son with my view obstructed and genuinely don't see the oncoming person until it's too late and either I'm nursing a pranged elbow or casting about trying to put my son's shoe back on.

Actually, my husband, who is Swiss even, is quite bothered by this. He's remarked to me on numerous occasions about how it seems that we are always the ones making way for others walking down the sidewalk.

I guess his visits to the US have influenced his thinking about such things more than he realizes.
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  #42  
Old 08.07.2009, 14:37
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Re: Swiss and their attitude to queuing

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Actually, my husband, who is Swiss even, is quite bothered by this.
He is an impure Swiss so does not count

Impure Swiss =

- Swiss who have travelled
- Swiss married to foreigners

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  #43  
Old 13.07.2009, 11:50
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Re: Swiss and their attitude to queuing

more examples?

sorry, kumpel, abfahrt nach hinten!
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  #44  
Old 13.07.2009, 12:01
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Re: Swiss and their attitude to queuing

This morning I was at a sarnie shop and a girl literally pushed around me and then looked at me disgustedly when I gave her a dirty look and then called to order before she could. Really bad mannered!
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  #45  
Old 13.07.2009, 12:17
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Re: Swiss and their attitude to queuing

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This morning I was at a sarnie shop and a girl literally pushed around me and then looked at me disgustedly when I gave her a dirty look and then called to order before she could. Really bad mannered!
-
All this about queuing reminds me of tube stations in London in Oct-Dec 1972. I had to change trains sometimes, and had to experience to be pushed from behind extremely often. I then developed a technique to lift my right foot some 30 cms and then move it back straight (not upward) and back again, and after hearing the cry behind me to turn and say "oh so sorry". It worked. And, as I for three months tended to use the same station the number of pushings receded to some extent. And this in the motherland of queuing !
-
And a piece of reality. I on many visits to Great Britain and the USA experienced people pushing by in shops instead of queuing, almost molesting you. People tricking you out and employing methods of "catch-as-catch-can". So that I am a bit astonished to see English-speakers in Switzerland most apparently all originating from St. Mary Mead !

Last edited by Wollishofener; 13.07.2009 at 13:48.
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  #46  
Old 13.07.2009, 14:51
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Re: Swiss and their attitude to queuing

It is not just the Swiss. It is the whole world. In the past 10 days I've experienced tourist season in Florence, a U2 concert in Milan, and general admission for the Dave Matthews concert in Montreux. You can't get more international than these places, and the injustices I have seen are just sad.

Last night, I returned from a long weekend in Italy by train. As the train did originate it's journey in Italy, it was over an hour late and past the time when the trains shut down in Geneva. This left a lot of tired and testy people all competing for taxi's.

A queue did form and was working fairly well until one couple walked out of the train station, completely gaffed off the queue and flagged the next incoming taxi before it could pull into the taxi stand. That is what triggered the feeding frenzy.

The queue fell to pieces and like rats from a sinking ship, it was survival of the fittest. People were running out into the street to stop the cabs before they could reach the stand. I had the misfortune of standing in the queue next to a group of 4 very elderly people and another woman who had fallen down the escalator in the train station and was quite shaken, so I felt compelled to get them into cabs before leaving myself. I actually had to chase people away and physically block a young able bodied man in order to get the 4 old people loaded into a taxi. It was not a good night for human dignity.

Although, the first couple who started the mayhem only spoke french, and therefore stood a good chance of being Swiss, I saw people of many languages and national origins behaving badly. Even a fellow American who was helping me try to get the queue reformed gave up and took the cab I was trying to get the poor escalator lady into.

I've seen this behavior before. In Somalia, 1996, I was part of a mission sent to pull out the last remaining UN troops. As we pulled back our lines and surrendered UN territory, the Somalis would move in and take whatever was left behind. I can remember watching the locals go into a structure that had housed some UN officials. One of the Somalis came out of the structure with a toilet on his shoulder. He had a very big smile on his face for finding such a valuable prize. I thought it a bit odd as there was no running water in the city to hook it up to. The man with the toilet was promptly shot by another Somali who also fancied the idea of owning a toilet. He picked it up and was gunned down just a few seconds later by another toilet aficionado. This time, the toilet fell to the ground and broke into several pieces. Two men died for a useless toilet due to greed and jealousy. Humans can be truly amazing sometimes.

Yes there is a difference between shooting each other for toilets, and stealing someones taxi. But the underlying principle is the same.
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  #47  
Old 13.07.2009, 18:00
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Re: Swiss and their attitude to queuing

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I've seen this behavior before. In Somalia, 1996, I was part of a mission sent to pull out the last remaining UN troops. As we pulled back our lines and surrendered UN territory, the Somalis would move in and take whatever was left behind. I can remember watching the locals go into a structure that had housed some UN officials. One of the Somalis came out of the structure with a toilet on his shoulder. He had a very big smile on his face for finding such a valuable prize. I thought it a bit odd as there was no running water in the city to hook it up to. The man with the toilet was promptly shot by another Somali who also fancied the idea of owning a toilet. He picked it up and was gunned down just a few seconds later by another toilet aficionado. This time, the toilet fell to the ground and broke into several pieces. Two men died for a useless toilet due to greed and jealousy. Humans can be truly amazing sometimes.
Wow.
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  #48  
Old 13.07.2009, 18:30
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Re: Swiss and their attitude to queuing

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Wow.
I think it is because of that day things like this bother me so much. So many of these people get a certain Sh*t eating grin on their face. Like a sly little animal that stole a bit of rotting meat out of the gutter.
The I took a taxi from old people grin.
The I rudely pushed everyone out of my way so I could be next to the stage at a concert grin.
The I cut to the front of the ski lift line grin.
The I unsafely cut into traffic so I could be home 2 seconds sooner grin.

They all look so much like the I shot a man for a toilet grin.

I suppose I am sounding a bit morose. I'll shut up.
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  #49  
Old 13.07.2009, 18:50
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Re: Swiss and their attitude to queuing

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I suppose I am sounding a bit morose. I'll shut up.
pls don't - like i've said before, you should post more exmilexpat - infact start a post about your adventures...swiss life must be so forking* boring for you in comparison...


*quote DB
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  #50  
Old 13.07.2009, 18:54
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Re: Swiss and their attitude to queuing

I guess they're going to be in for a rude surprise when I grab them by their collar and drag them off of my feet/skis....
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  #51  
Old 13.07.2009, 19:27
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Re: Swiss and their attiitude to queuing

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They'll never learn if you sit there and quietly fume. You're basically enabling their behavior. They do it because they know that you'll sit there quietly and say nothing.

It happens everywhere, and there's no excuse for it anywhere. Culture can't be blamed when individuals have a sense of entitlement. The Swiss are a calculated people, so the cattle metaphor isn't working for me. They know very well what they're up to. (On the other hand, somewhere like Karnataka, India, where as a woman men would cut & elbow in front of me all the time, THAT was a cultural thing because they were taught that women shouldn't be out buying their own train tickets, anyway. A sudden, "NO!" and thrust to the side worked well, with a sincere apology ensuing and the whole room laughing)

I agree with PHDoofus.
The only way to respect yourself and the people behind you is to teach the shovers a lesson, one individual at a time. I recommend embarrassing them by scolding them and telling them they should be ashamed of themselves, pointing to anyone else politely waiting. Unless they are elderly or pregnant, in which case I usually ignore the behaviour.

Last edited by CitizenDuMonde; 13.07.2009 at 19:37.
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  #52  
Old 14.07.2009, 12:34
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Re: Swiss and their attiitude to queuing

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Simple fact is that outside of England and the former colonies, you won't find a polite and orderly queue anywhere. You'll just have to get used to it.
Well, I would include the northern Europe as well.

Cutting the queue there the issue is usually not about cutting the queue but
provoking a fight
or being too intoxicated noticing the row of people
or being too young (most often under three) to know how queue.
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  #53  
Old 14.07.2009, 13:20
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Re: Swiss and their attiitude to queuing

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The Swiss are a calculated people, so the cattle metaphor isn't working for me.
Trust me, the cattle metaphor will work much better for you once you get here.

And not just in queues...

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  #54  
Old 14.07.2009, 14:07
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Re: Swiss and their attiitude to queuing

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Can anyone give me the Schweizerdeutsch for "Get to the back of the effing queue you ignorant barsteward?"

Cheers

Jim
"Hey! Hindenaschtaa!"
I use it fairly regularly, I hate people who jump the queue and am not afraid of telling them off!
It certainly isn't considered polite in Switzerland, and there are plenty of Swiss annoyed by this behaviour, but the problem is, as some have pointed out, that very few actually have the courage to say something, but are instead just fuming silently.

Last edited by simon_ch; 14.07.2009 at 14:25.
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Old 14.07.2009, 14:19
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Re: Swiss and their attiitude to queuing

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"Hey! Hindenaschtaa!"
I use it fairly regularely, I hate people who jump the queue and am not afraid of telling them off!
Have to 'fess up to a bit of barging myself this morning trying not to miss my train from Stadelhofen. The pavement area has been narrowed down to almost single file in both directions and my train was annoyingly already in the station so I had to brace myself and crash through the middle of the two orderly lines.

I was saying "Sorry" and "Excuse me" in my poshest English so please don't think it was another Swiss and his or her non-adherence to queuing. The rest of the queue was quite orderly and calm despite the British Bulldozer cutting through the middle...
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Old 14.07.2009, 14:22
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Re: Swiss and their attiitude to queuing

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Have to 'fess up to a bit of barging myself this morning trying not to miss my train from Stadelhofen. The pavement area has been narrowed down to almost single file in both directions and my train was annoyingly already in the station so I had to brace myself and crash through the middle of the two orderly lines.

I was saying "Sorry" and "Excuse me" in my poshest English so please don't think it was another Swiss and his or her non-adherence to queuing. The rest of the queue was quite orderly and calm despite the British Bulldozer cutting through the middle...
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Old 14.07.2009, 17:18
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Re: Swiss and their attitude to queuing

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A queue did form and was working fairly well until one couple walked out of the train station, completely gaffed off the queue and flagged the next incoming taxi before it could pull into the taxi stand. That is what triggered the feeding frenzy.

...

Humans can be truly amazing sometimes.

...

Yes there is a difference between shooting each other for toilets, and stealing someones taxi. But the underlying principle is the same.
I couldn't agree more and it doesn't surprise me the least that just one couple was enough to destabilize and collapse the queuing. Even if almost all people want the queuing to work, apparently it isn't enough with "almost". It depends on the crowd if queuing works or not
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Old 14.09.2012, 17:06
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Re: Swiss and their attitude to queuing

First of all, my apologies for bringing up a dead thread, but what I am about to complain is exactly the same stupid behavior.

Here is my problem:

I commute every day from Basel to Baden by train, so I face this problem almost every day.

You know, one can access the 2nd class carriages from the 1st class carriage through connecting doors. When the train stops almost everybody queues at the entrance of the 2nd class carriage to wait for the people going out. Then some smart asses come, get in the train from the 1st class carriage and cross to the 2nd class carriage. With this they eliminate the whole queue. This really drives me crazy.

I often choose not to make a scene, but I give the most furious look ever to those guys. I even turn back and look at their faces with anger after I pass by them.

As said, this happens to me almost everyday with different people.

I have mostly no complaints with this country, but this rude and disrespectful behavior is just so ......low.( I will be kind today )
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  #59  
Old 14.09.2012, 17:13
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Re: Swiss and their attitude to queuing

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You know, one can access the 2nd class carriages from the 1st class carriage through connecting doors. When the train stops almost everybody queues at the entrance of the 2nd class carriage to wait for the people going out. Then some smart asses come, get in the train from the 1st class carriage and cross to the 2nd class carriage. With this they eliminate the whole queue. This really drives me crazy.
Damn, now you are onto my technique I find this a great way of getting on, the other way is to send a kid on first with a couple of bags to hog the seats and then I find my way on knowing that a seat has been reserved already!!
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Old 14.09.2012, 17:14
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Re: Swiss and their attitude to queuing

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First of all, my apologies for bringing up a dead thread, but what I am about to complain is exactly the same stupid behavior.

Here is my problem:

I commute every day from Basel to Baden by train, so I face this problem almost every day.

You know, one can access the 2nd class carriages from the 1st class carriage through connecting doors. When the train stops almost everybody queues at the entrance of the 2nd class carriage to wait for the people going out. Then some smart asses come, get in the train from the 1st class carriage and cross to the 2nd class carriage. With this they eliminate the whole queue. This really drives me crazy.

I often choose not to make a scene, but I give the most furious look ever to those guys. I even turn back and look at their faces with anger after I pass by them.

As said, this happens to me almost everyday with different people.

I have mostly no complaints with this country, but this rude and disrespectful behavior is just so ......low.( I will be kind today )
I don't see the problem with it. The queue outside the door is not being negatively affected by these few savvy people going in through 1st class... so what exactly is the issue? Are they somehow taking all the seats away from the well provided Swiss trans? Or is it just a matter of principle?

Thanks for the tip though, I never thought about doing that before and will try it out asap.

EDIT - Wow, old thread.
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