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Old 14.09.2012, 18:11
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Re: Swiss and their attitude to queuing

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You are in the same mindset I was in for my first two years. I would get so frustrated every day. I just had to learn to get over it.

You either keep doing as you are, knowing you are being a decent person, and try not to let it bother you. OR, you just become a rude ignorant person and be the same way. The latter can make you hate yourself a little bit, but its not as bad as getting frustated with others. Plus, there is the perk of getting the seat, getting served first etc etc whatever the situation applies.

I have had it before when a supermarket opens a new till to serve the large que customers. Now, most normal polite people, I should hope, would allow the next in line to move across to the new till. Oh no no no, not here, the person just coming round the corner with their trolley will see this opening and feel not an ounce of shame/guilt in rocking up to that till ignoring the que of people been standing there 5 mins. That infuriates me. When it happened the other day, I just literally walked right in front of them, threw their food on the floor (I half attempted the trolley) and said "bitte" as I ushered the person over infront of me to get served, and then I followed after.

The woman did not say anything to me, and the cashier just carried on as normal.

Sometimes, just correcting people or not standing for it works.
I believe I am getting there step by step. It is just too much at the end of the working day.

I really think that Swiss people are generally nice, but, as proven in so many occasions, queuing is just not their cup of tea.

Thanks for the advice!
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Old 14.09.2012, 18:18
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Re: Swiss and their attitude to queuing

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I believe I am getting there step by step. It is just too much at the end of the working day.

I really think that Swiss people are generally nice, but, as proven in so many occasions, queuing is just not their cup of tea.

Thanks for the advice!
At least we had something to discuss on a Friday afternoon
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  #83  
Old 14.09.2012, 18:20
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Re: Swiss and their attitude to queuing

The Swiss inability to queue is probably the reason that the trains here are so punctual.
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  #84  
Old 14.09.2012, 18:24
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Re: Swiss and their attitude to queuing

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The Swiss inability to queue is probably the reason that the trains here are so punctual.
No, the trains are punctual, on the most part, due to small population, large doors and number of doors, and double deckers a lot of the time.

Their puncuality is slipping though
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Old 14.09.2012, 18:26
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Re: Swiss and their attitude to queuing

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Possibly, but I know this be true.

You cant even stand in the connecting bits, which are near the 1st class section. I didnt get fined but got told to move.
SBB rules (sorry it is in German) state in the page 61 # 102 that if one doesn't have the valid 1st class ticket he/she can not even stay in the standing and entrance tile of the 1st class wagon/ tile. But I am not sure if this implies when people entering and exiting as well. Nevertheless, my point is why to ignore the existing queue.
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  #86  
Old 14.09.2012, 18:30
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Re: Swiss and their attitude to queuing

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At least we had something to discuss on a Friday afternoon
And I think this is the main point of the complaints corner; let it of your chest, no matter if you find support or feel that you are the weird one
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  #87  
Old 14.09.2012, 18:36
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Re: Swiss and their attitude to queuing

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I dunno, if I was paying for the 1st class ticket (which is an ass-reaming price to be sure), I'd be righteously pissed if the great unwashed 2nd class were cutting through the 1st class car to get to the 2nd class car ahead of the others. I'm sure there has to be some rule about that regarding the 1st class car...otherwise, why bother paying all that money if you can't be free of those you're paying to keep away?
The rule is that as long as the train is moving none with only 2nd class tickets has any rights to be in the 1st class compartment.

My own understanding: When the train stopped please leave the train through all nearby doors (and all persons on the outside make enough room for those people) and as soon as none wants to leave the train board the train through all available doors. We want to keep the Swiss trains running on time. Thanks for your cooperation.

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SBB rules (sorry it is in German) state in the page 61 # 102 [...]
Thanks a lot for the link. It says "Befördern (to transport)", a non moving train cannot transport anything.
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  #88  
Old 14.09.2012, 18:48
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Re: Swiss and their attitude to queuing

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The rule is that as long as the train is moving none with only 2nd class tickets has any rights to be in the 1st class compartment.

My own understanding: When the train stopped please leave the train through all nearby doors (and all persons on the outside make enough room for those people) and as soon as none wants to leave the train board the train through all available doors. We want to keep the Swiss trains running on time. Thanks for your cooperation.
Interesting point. However, I would disagree.

If you would like to operate efficiently, you need to eliminate the bottlenecks in your process. Creating two lines for one entry point will cause a bottleneck at the entrance, hence slow your process and delay the train. However, if you keep only one line, you will ensure the continuous flow of the passengers into the train.
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Old 14.09.2012, 18:49
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Re: Swiss and their attitude to queuing

So, i'm normally one to moan about the poor queuing etiquette here, but the other week at the ETH bar I was shocked to see people forming an orderly line along down the bar and round the corner (c.10 people) waiting to get served.

It was a bit wierd though, given that a bar is normally a place where even high-queue forming cultures generally loosen the rules. But, i think it may have been to prevent that potentially *awkward* moment of standing squashed up in close proximity to someone who you don't know at the bar, who might start talking to you...

Last edited by luckylou; 14.09.2012 at 18:52. Reason: typo
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Old 14.09.2012, 18:52
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Re: Swiss and their attitude to queuing

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So, i'm normally one to moan about the poor queing etiquette here, but the other week at the ETH bar I was shocked to see people forming an orderly line along down the bar and round the corner (c.10 people) waiting to get served.

It was a bit wierd though, given that a bar is normally a place where even high-queue forming cultures generally loosen the rules. But, i think it may have been to prevent that potentially *awkward* moment of standing squashed up in close proximity to someone who you don't know at the bar, who might start talking to you...
Are you sure it wasn't an Erasmus party?
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Old 14.09.2012, 20:33
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Re: Swiss and their attitude to queuing

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Interesting point. However, I would disagree.

If you would like to operate efficiently, you need to eliminate the bottlenecks in your process. Creating two lines for one entry point will cause a bottleneck at the entrance, hence slow your process and delay the train. However, if you keep only one line, you will ensure the continuous flow of the passengers into the train.
Actually this not correct, a single line is one of the most inefficient and slowest queueing methods. Multiple queues are much faster and the swiss trains can handle at least 2-3 queues through the doors due to the width, the issue however is all the fools who do not move into the train inner but insist on standing in the vestible area Forcing a single line would slow the entrance process by at least double if not triple the waiting time! Especially as one queue heads upstairs and the other downstairs so automatically 2 lines are accomodated
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Old 14.09.2012, 20:56
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Re: Swiss and their attitude to queuing

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Actually this not correct, a single line is one of the most inefficient and slowest queueing methods. Multiple queues are much faster and the swiss trains can handle at least 2-3 queues through the doors due to the width, the issue however is all the fools who do not move into the train inner but insist on standing in the vestible area Forcing a single line would slow the entrance process by at least double if not triple the waiting time! Especially as one queue heads upstairs and the other downstairs so automatically 2 lines are accomodated
You have ruined this complaint!
What a respectless post
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Old 14.09.2012, 22:14
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Re: Swiss and their attitude to queuing

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Actually this not correct, a single line is one of the most inefficient and slowest queueing methods. Multiple queues are much faster and the swiss trains can handle at least 2-3 queues through the doors due to the width, the issue however is all the fools who do not move into the train inner but insist on standing in the vestible area Forcing a single line would slow the entrance process by at least double if not triple the waiting time! Especially as one queue heads upstairs and the other downstairs so automatically 2 lines are accomodated
I wish we had those two floor trains.I agree with you on the width of the doors in those ones,multiple queues can be very effective there.unfortunately, we have those old models with one floor and regular size doors. In those,your argument doesnt hold due to the limited width of the doors,i.e one person at a time.
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Old 14.09.2012, 22:30
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Re: Swiss and their attitude to queuing

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If you would like to operate efficiently, you need to eliminate the bottlenecks in your process. Creating two lines for one entry point will cause a bottleneck at the entrance, hence slow your process and delay the train. However, if you keep only one line, you will ensure the continuous flow of the passengers into the train.
There was a BBC nerdy programme on last year (Bang Goes the Theory) which tested the theory of getting a group of people through a doorway. In the first experiment they just let everyone pile through the door and timed it.

In the next experiment they placed a post just in front of the doorway which at first glance looked like an obstruction and it would take longer to get the group through the door but it was a quite a few seconds quicker than the first time they tried it.

It kind of ordered the group into two streams as it went through and prevented everyone jamming in the opening.

Apparently it's a well known phenomenon and, ironically, was researched by a Swiss university.

I'll try to find the link.
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Old 14.09.2012, 22:31
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Re: Swiss and their attitude to queuing

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This is exactly my frustration. You are not just saying that this is smarter, you are also saying that other people who respect the queue are down right stupid.

Also if you think that this is smart, then what is stopping you breaking any other rule of being civil because you are smart enough not to follow them. Next thing you know, we are in complete chaos with no rules. I have seen that and believe me you don't want that.
Well, it is neither really smart nor respectful, but disrespectful and silly.

Why ? Because it may work if they are one, two or three persons, but as it takes time to cross the 1st class carriage and to cross the two doors, the time win will be gone in case of the 3rd or 4th person. And if somebody comes the other way, the advantage is gone even for the first of them. As the passage between the slightly wider 1st Class seats is narrower than in 2nd-class.
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Old 14.09.2012, 22:35
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Re: Swiss and their attitude to queuing

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Why is it wrong? There's no rule stating you must use the 2nd class door is there? I do it all the time on the train from Fribourg to Bern, along with a few others. No-one complains or gives dirty looks, everyone is free to do it if they want. I don't see the problem.
Right, BUT do you when doing so, do it to get a seat in 2nd class ? Or rather simply to get INTO the train ?
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Old 14.09.2012, 22:50
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Re: Swiss and their attitude to queuing

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Why is it wrong? There's no rule stating you must use the 2nd class door is there? I do it all the time on the train from Fribourg to Bern, along with a few others. No-one complains or gives dirty looks, everyone is free to do it if they want. I don't see the problem.
Paddy you are absolutely correct on this, and the number of people who do it makes it totally acceptable and sensible. Regularly use this approach as you walk abot 10 steps in via the 1st class carriage to make it into the 2nd class and most are already in the carrriage before the exiting passangers are out of 2nd class doors. Hence there is a clear advantage for up to 10 people and no risk of ticket gurus fining you as the train is still stationary.

I am glad to see there are other progressive thinkers on here and at the same time glad that there are others that insist on standing in the queue that is still waiting since we need them to keep the other priority queue free.
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Old 14.09.2012, 23:13
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Re: Swiss and their attitude to queuing

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No, the trains are punctual, on the most part, due to small population, large doors and number of doors, and double deckers a lot of the time.

Their puncuality is slipping though
That the punctuality of the trains was slipping was already complained about in the 1960ies
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Old 14.09.2012, 23:17
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Re: Swiss and their attitude to queuing

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Paddy you are absolutely correct on this, and the number of people who do it makes it totally acceptable and sensible. Regularly use this approach as you walk abot 10 steps in via the 1st class carriage to make it into the 2nd class and most are already in the carrriage before the exiting passangers are out of 2nd class doors. Hence there is a clear advantage for up to 10 people and no risk of ticket gurus fining you as the train is still stationary.

I am glad to see there are other progressive thinkers on here and at the same time glad that there are others that insist on standing in the queue that is still waiting since we need them to keep the other priority queue free.
It is not that we are not thinking progresivly,it is just there is a reason why it is called "public" transport. There are certain moral rules.Of course you dont have to follow them. But I am in the opinion that if somethings feels wrong in my concious,then I will not do it doesnt matter if it is not written in somewhere. As I said,it is just a personal decision of putting greater good before my personal gains.
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Old 16.09.2012, 16:15
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Re: Swiss and their attitude to queuing

besides queuing, men do not generally get up for women, children and the elderly. I am from NYC and nearly everyone gets up. I don't need to be treated like a princess, but their parents should have taught them to hold doors for people in general and get your ass up when someone pregnant gets on the tram!
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