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  #101  
Old 31.07.2007, 10:58
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Re: White & Non White foreigners..

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Why??? I do not see anything shameful in the image, maybe in the campaign but the image does not disturb me.
hmmmm.... dunno... lets see, well maybe because it feeds into the sub-conscious mind that in order for Switzerland to be safer, criminals need to be deported (and c'mon we all know that they're black don't we...).

But sorry mate, looks like your sub-conscious might have been invaded already
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  #102  
Old 31.07.2007, 11:09
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Re: White & Non White foreigners..

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hmmmm.... dunno... lets see, well maybe because it feeds into the sub-conscious mind that in order for Switzerland to be safer, criminals need to be deported (and c'mon we all know that they're black don't we...).

But sorry mate, looks like your sub-conscious might have been invaded already
you're both right - take away the context and the image is benign. Add context to it and it's not even subtle.
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  #103  
Old 31.07.2007, 11:10
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Re: White & Non White foreigners..

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Why??? I do not see anything shameful in the image, maybe in the campaign but the image does not disturb me.
Greg because in a very slimy way SVP type are saying that they don't want non-white foreigners in Switzerland. They have used black hand in the piggy bank type of campaigns before. SVP ain't getting benefit of doubt from me. They knew exactly what they were doing when they picked that image. Most non-whites will find that image offensive specially with SVP logo next to it.

I am all for deporting violent foreign criminals as long as this initiative is not a back door way of framing and kicking innocent foreigners out.
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  #104  
Old 31.07.2007, 11:20
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Re: White & Non White foreigners..

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you're both right - take away the context and the image is benign. Add context to it and it's not even subtle.
Actually Lob Rockster look at the image carefully. You have a red area with a white cross clearly symbolizing Switzerland. Inside this Swiss area there is no black sheep. The only black sheep in the image is getting kicked out of the red Swiss area. As far as I am concerned even on it's own the image is damning.
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  #105  
Old 31.07.2007, 11:31
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Re: White & Non White foreigners..

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Actually Lob Rockster look at the image carefully. You have a red area with a white cross clearly symbolizing Switzerland. Inside this Swiss area there is no black sheep. The only black sheep in the image is getting kicked out of the red Swiss area. As far as I am concerned even on it's own the image is damning.
true; I'm taking it down to the most benign level - three white sheep and one black sheep. Add in the background and other parts of the message then it is absolutely reprehensible.

And that is why in the SVP bible belt, I seek SVP voting placards so that our family vote can go the other way
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  #106  
Old 31.07.2007, 11:36
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Re: White & Non White foreigners..

That's funny, I'm the opposite. Whenever I'm driving in the US and I see Bush/Cheney 2004 bumperstickers I have the desire to go towards them, very very quickly

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true; I'm taking it down to the most benign level - three white sheep and one black sheep. Add in the background and other parts of the message then it is absolutely reprehensible.

And that is why in the SVP bible belt, I seek SVP voting placards so that our family vote can go the other way
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  #107  
Old 31.07.2007, 11:48
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Re: White & Non White foreigners..

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Actually Lob Rockster look at the image carefully. You have a red area with a white cross clearly symbolizing Switzerland. Inside this Swiss area there is no black sheep. The only black sheep in the image is getting kicked out of the red Swiss area. As far as I am concerned even on it's own the image is damning.
You are correct and if you look closely the other two sheep seems to be amazed by the actions of first sheep.
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  #108  
Old 31.07.2007, 16:09
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Re: White & Non White foreigners..

Actually I thought of the black sheep in the family although the intent is clear - this is why I said the campaign stinks, not the image.
P.S. I have actually seen more actual black sheep in Switzerland than anywhere else which makes it kind of funny.
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  #109  
Old 31.07.2007, 16:28
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Re: White & Non White foreigners..

That, my friend, is where the artistry lies in a good propagandist. Anyhoo, knowing the general stance of the SVP there is little to be misinterpreted.

Can I go out on a limb and guess you've never heard of the SVP?

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Actually I thought of the black sheep in the family although the intent is clear - this is why I said the campaign stinks, not the image.
P.S. I have actually seen more actual black sheep in Switzerland than anywhere else which makes it kind of funny.
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  #110  
Old 31.07.2007, 19:17
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Re: White & Non White foreigners..

Wasn't the SVP what Captain Scarlet used to drive?
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  #111  
Old 12.08.2007, 06:58
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Re: White & Non White foreigners..

I tried ploughing through all 4 pages (made it to pg 3), but at 1:30am I think I'm too tired to continue.

I've had numerous short-term stays in CH: Geneva, Lausanne, Basel and Zurich, and found that the Swiss in Geneva seem more open-minded about foreigners... perhaps the UN has a huge influence here. I don't suppose I've stayed long enough to have experienced anything racist in CH, however I've heard numerous first-hand accounts from several non-white foreigners that have left me wondering; especially since I have a mixed ethnicity myself (50% Irish, 25% English and 25% Black Canadian).

We left Vienna in 2002 with lots of memories, both good and bad. During the first 10 days of living in Vienna I was accused of shoplifting on three occassions. I wasn't sure whether to laugh or view this as a traditional Austrian welcome to non-white foreigners. Actually... I did laugh. But come on, if you're going to accuse me of stealing let it be for something high-end and not a bag of apples, steak or a dress shirt. hahaha. I mean really.

Then came the search for accomodation. My Swiss-German wife ironically speaks basic German as she lived mostly in Geneva so this made apt hunting tricky. Though I understood very little German we agreed to take turns calling for accomodation. My turn... great... here goes... The owner spoke no English, asked for my nationality (Cdn) and then disconnected within 20 seconds. My wife calls back.
The woman asks, "Was the Canadian man who just called your husband?"
"Yes."
"Could he be black?"
"He could be."
................................disconnected again!

Was it something we said. lol. Or was it the great melanin deposit I received from Dad's side of the family. hahaha. During my time in Vienna I was never hassled by the police or any other authority. Well, there was this one time the local Catholic church kept sending my envelopes so that I could send an offering to them. I guess adding "Christian" in the religion box on the police registration form automatically labelled me as a Catholic. Aside from the theft allegations and the apt. search I was good to go. Granted I received a lot of stares and "what the hell are you doing here" looks but they never bothered me.

I think that having grown up in North America one has become quite thick-skinned to certain things. Personally, I don't care about the bum on the corner shouting out "N _ _ _ er" but am more concerned about the guy in the human resources dept. who won't hire me because of his racist attitude/behaviour. But hey that's just me.

My advice for anyone non-Swiss looking individual is to pick and choose your battles when it comes to racism and/or discrimination. A quick glance at Swiss history informs us that they've always been somewhat of a closed society. They only joined the UN a few years ago and even my Swiss mother-in-law who hails from a town on the German border hates it when someone mistakens her for being German... something to do with the war.

J

PS: We eventually found a great condo that we rented from a very nice older Austrian couple - go figure!
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  #112  
Old 12.08.2007, 13:06
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Re: White & Non White foreigners..

I'm non-white and I look like the typical Thai girl with the typical Thai nose. I was never laughed at in England...only when it was in a playful way.

But there were only three dark-skinned children in my primary school in Switzerland. My brother, my neighbour and I.
I've always been laughed at because of my appearance but never because of my personality.
Things got much worse when I arrived in secondary school. And the funny thing is, the kids who bullied me were foreigners as well. They bullied me all the way through 1. Sek - 3. Sek till I finally stood up to them. Now we're friends, but I obviously won't allow them to forget what they did to me.
There were times where I couldn't bear to look in the mirror. Or cringed whenever I heard the word ape, because I knew they were going to point at me. Things are better now, but I still shudder whenever I hear the word...thinking that someone will look my way and see how I react.
The worst situation you could get into is when it gets physical. My best friend and I found our bikes stuck. The lock was frozen. We were standing there in the snow, trying to unlock it when the bully's older brother arrived with his goons and started throwing ice at us. My best friend could have left me (her bike was now unlocked), but she stayed. We just stood there as I phoned my mother, asking her to pick us up.

But those days are over. There are of course some occasions where my nose gets pointed at, but I've learnt to laugh at it as well.
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  #113  
Old 12.08.2007, 13:20
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Re: White & Non White foreigners..

Ah, now I see the light. The owner of a nice apartment we wanted to rent was 'undecided who to rent it to' for a week; then we ran out of time waiting for him so we opted for another one.
Now that you've mentioned it, JHG, perhaps it was because I'm Chinese-looking and my spouse is German.


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I tried ploughing through all 4 pages (made it to pg 3), but at 1:30am I think I'm too tired to continue.

I've had numerous short-term stays in CH: Geneva, Lausanne, Basel and Zurich, and found that the Swiss in Geneva seem more open-minded about foreigners... perhaps the UN has a huge influence here. I don't suppose I've stayed long enough to have experienced anything racist in CH, however I've heard numerous first-hand accounts from several non-white foreigners that have left me wondering; especially since I have a mixed ethnicity myself (50% Irish, 25% English and 25% Black Canadian).

We left Vienna in 2002 with lots of memories, both good and bad. During the first 10 days of living in Vienna I was accused of shoplifting on three occassions. I wasn't sure whether to laugh or view this as a traditional Austrian welcome to non-white foreigners. Actually... I did laugh. But come on, if you're going to accuse me of stealing let it be for something high-end and not a bag of apples, steak or a dress shirt. hahaha. I mean really.

Then came the search for accomodation. My Swiss-German wife ironically speaks basic German as she lived mostly in Geneva so this made apt hunting tricky. Though I understood very little German we agreed to take turns calling for accomodation. My turn... great... here goes... The owner spoke no English, asked for my nationality (Cdn) and then disconnected within 20 seconds. My wife calls back.
The woman asks, "Was the Canadian man who just called your husband?"
"Yes."
"Could he be black?"
"He could be."
................................disconnected again!

Was it something we said. lol. Or was it the great melanin deposit I received from Dad's side of the family. hahaha. During my time in Vienna I was never hassled by the police or any other authority. Well, there was this one time the local Catholic church kept sending my envelopes so that I could send an offering to them. I guess adding "Christian" in the religion box on the police registration form automatically labelled me as a Catholic. Aside from the theft allegations and the apt. search I was good to go. Granted I received a lot of stares and "what the hell are you doing here" looks but they never bothered me.

I think that having grown up in North America one has become quite thick-skinned to certain things. Personally, I don't care about the bum on the corner shouting out "N _ _ _ er" but am more concerned about the guy in the human resources dept. who won't hire me because of his racist attitude/behaviour. But hey that's just me.

My advice for anyone non-Swiss looking individual is to pick and choose your battles when it comes to racism and/or discrimination. A quick glance at Swiss history informs us that they've always been somewhat of a closed society. They only joined the UN a few years ago and even my Swiss mother-in-law who hails from a town on the German border hates it when someone mistakens her for being German... something to do with the war.

J

PS: We eventually found a great condo that we rented from a very nice older Austrian couple - go figure!
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  #114  
Old 12.08.2007, 13:59
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Re: White & Non White foreigners..

I dont have that problem, though I wondered before I came here, too (I am also non white). Rather, I believe that the Swiss are uber-conservative and that comes across as unfriendly, if not hostile. If you were repressed most of your life you might come across that way, too. Still, I think its important to approach people with a smile in life, as it usually gets returned. Good luck!
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  #115  
Old 15.08.2007, 03:07
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Re: White & Non White foreigners..

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I was extremely shocked when I see this print, now it is everywhere in Train Station in Bern, Zurich and other big city. Is the SBB carrying the same attitude as the country during WWII? natural? so they let who ever can pay$$$ to put up what they want?

I also find out similar visual reference in a music video, the title is called: "Don't Give Hate A Chance" (any Jamiroquai fan here?) ---->
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  #116  
Old 15.08.2007, 03:22
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Re: White & Non White foreigners..

My German isn't that good but I definitely understood that ad. That reminds me of an ad that the FPO of Austria ran about 6 years ago. They placed two billboards together throughout Vienna that read "Criminals" and the other "Foreigners". There was a subtext but the intent was to brandish the criminal element in the country as all being foreign. Interestingly enough, I find the ad amusing as it's so base in its approach that only a total idiot would fall for such trite. The disturbing thing for me with such ads is the potential influence they have on young developing minds.

Has anyone emailed that party to ask for their interpretation/explanation of the ad? Just curious as I'd love to hear their official response.

J
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  #117  
Old 15.08.2007, 04:03
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Re: White & Non White foreigners..

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My German isn't that good but I definitely understood that ad. That reminds me of an ad that the FPO of Austria ran about 6 years ago. They placed two billboards together throughout Vienna that read "Criminals" and the other "Foreigners". There was a subtext but the intent was to brandish the criminal element in the country as all being foreign. Interestingly enough, I find the ad amusing as it's so base in its approach that only a total idiot would fall for such trite. The disturbing thing for me with such ads is the potential influence they have on young developing minds.

Has anyone emailed that party to ask for their interpretation/explanation of the ad? Just curious as I'd love to hear their official response.

J
My friend told me that, the opposite party of SVP is actually suggesting all the people to return a blank mail/print from them, with nothing sign inside. Like that they will have to pay for the postal fee, but not getting vote.
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  #118  
Old 15.08.2007, 08:48
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Re: White & Non White foreigners..

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My friend told me that, the opposite party of SVP is actually suggesting all the people to return a blank mail/print from them, with nothing sign inside. Like that they will have to pay for the postal fee, but not getting vote.
http://www.englishforum.ch/swiss-pol...ity+initiative covers that plus the images plus.....
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  #119  
Old 17.08.2007, 14:10
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Re: White & Non White foreigners..

Just take a look at SVP posters currently plastered everywhere: a black sheep being kicked-out by the nice cuddly white ones. Doesn't take much to work it out. Personally, I'm looking forward to Euro 2008 when all those eastern europeans decide to STAY afterwards......should be fun!
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  #120  
Old 19.08.2007, 16:31
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Re: White & Non White foreigners..

The SVP are infamous for their racist imagery.
Take a look at this picture on swiss info: http://www.swissinfo.org/eng/search/...81&sid=8102303
The caption says: The People's Party uses provocative posters to spread fear of foreigners.

Last edited by Nairda; 16.12.2007 at 18:37. Reason: Replace lost attachment with the actual image.
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