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  #21  
Old 25.02.2010, 15:05
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Re: Lange Erlen (public park) and dogs

hmm I do feel for you, Nick, and do have some sympathy - and I assume your two-hour tirade through the internet seeking weapons against the dogs relieved your stress.

You need to blame the owner. If a dog owner does not have full control of the dog when off-leash then they should not take the dog off-leash.

try to put it behind you as you must ensure your son does not fear dogs and is able to adapt his behaviour in case it happens again - for example to stand behind you especially while he's so short.

encouraging him to become violet will fuel his fear and also increase the chance that a dog really does snap at him (or the owner punches you in the mush). I know if my dog was peppersprayed by a 3-year-old, I'd take some convincing to not start rearranging Daddy's teeth.

Not all dogs and dog owners are a "threat". Don't make them into one.
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  #22  
Old 25.02.2010, 17:43
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Re: Lange Erlen (public park) and dogs

I'm sorry, but that is just some really bad advice for your kids. I don't often groan people, but that was just too much.

Please don't tell your children to throw rocks at dogs. Especially at Alsatians, Great Danes, and other breeds of a somewhat serious nature. That is just asking for a life changing experience to happen. If you read the article that you posted for defense techniques against attacking dogs, curling up in a ball and not provoking the dog further was about the only one a child might be capable of.

I have had the opportunity to wear protective equipment and be attacked by a military working dog. I asked the dog's trainer what I could do to protect myself. He just laughed a little and said "I guess you can do whatever you want to do, just remember that suit is only made of canvas." I came into that experience with a lot of self confidence, I left with a lot of respect for the dog. I have also been bit in the face by one of my own dogs. From first hand experience I can tell you that they can do huge amounts of damage in a single bite. Dogs also have very thick skulls with a brain the size of a peanut hidden under a lot of bone and muscle, along with a much higher tolerance for pain than what we have.

But I do agree with you that those dogs should not have been off the leash. Lots of people get bit by dogs every year, but amazingly very few dog owners were planning to have it happen. I never do it. My dogs have been evaluated here in Switzerland as being "safe" dogs, but it is not worth the risk to me.
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  #23  
Old 25.02.2010, 17:49
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Re: Lange Erlen (public park) and dogs

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Normally I forbid my son to throw stones, however today I told him in the case of a nasty dog, he is allowed to throw a stone right at the dog - and preferably get the bugger between the eyes.

Note to self: buy pepper spray and a catapult.

Cheers,
Nick
huh? what did the dog do to your son? making him cry? wow!
i wonder at what else he will throw stones at in future...maybe...at you?
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  #24  
Old 27.02.2010, 13:44
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Re: Lange Erlen (public park) and dogs

The obvious solution is not to shoot the dog, but shoot the owner. The dogs will see that their pack leader has been beaten, and you will become the new leader. I'm not a fan of dogs in general, but quite happy with many individual dogs.

Irresponsible dog owners should be put down.

My wife and I have had dogs off-lead growling and baring their teeth at us, while their owners chattered away to each other totally oblivious. HOWEVER - thankfully it's a very small minority.
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Old 27.02.2010, 17:45
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Re: Lange Erlen (public park) and dogs

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The obvious solution is not to shoot the dog, but shoot the owner. The dogs will see that their pack leader has been beaten, and you will become the new leader. I'm not a fan of dogs in general, but quite happy with many individual dogs.

Irresponsible dog owners should be put down.

My wife and I have had dogs off-lead growling and baring their teeth at us, while their owners chattered away to each other totally oblivious. HOWEVER - thankfully it's a very small minority.
My dislike of parents who can't control there kids in public bring out exactly the same reaction in me. Those little buggers who throw a tantrum in the supermarket, can't sit quietly in a restaurant, bawl because they can't have something, throw litter around and generally have little respect for anything..... and then they grow up to be ASBO totin' hoodies.

Of course some kids are lovely, but the horrid ones still have parents, no ones shot them.... yet.
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  #26  
Old 27.02.2010, 19:00
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Re: Lange Erlen (public park) and dogs

Poor kid, but I guess you can not blame the dogs for their owners' stupidity. They are just animals and probably just wanted to play, still I guess it is understandable to be upset. But do not let this incident scare your child of dogs, I think big dogs (and small ones also) should always be on a leash.
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  #27  
Old 27.02.2010, 21:38
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Re: Lange Erlen (public park) and dogs

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...
Of course some kids are lovely, but the horrid ones still have parents, no ones shot them.... yet.
Quite right. And when I've got citizenship I'll start an initiative.

Funny thing. I've a good friend who thinks I was too harsh with my kids bringing them up. He's rather less harsh. My kids are well behaved, his, while I love 'em to bits, are not. I blame the parents.

Edit: I know good parents with rotten kids. Sometimes it just happens that way.
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  #28  
Old 28.02.2010, 16:20
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Re: Lange Erlen (public park) and dogs

friend of my had same experience as you... it is very upseting~ esp. your little son is there and the owner of the dog did nothing... so ignorant. many people here regard their dogs as their children and give them the same right as us. as I remember the amimals here even got the lawer and insurance... ...
no wonder many people say swiss people live on the moon!
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  #29  
Old 03.03.2010, 19:19
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Re: Lange Erlen (public park) and dogs

Some interesting replies here.

Contrary to the insinuations of some posters my son was behaving perfectly throughout the episode - he was doing the Vita Parcours exercises and came to my side as the dogs approached. The ones at fault - in particular in the eyes of the law and the "Hundenverordnung Baselstadt" - were the owners.

Even if the dogs were being playful they were not under control in a frequently used public place (an offence under Baselstadt law) as they were neither on a lead nor responding to the owner's commands.

I do actually like dogs - and my son has a respect for them though he will only approach them and pet them when it is established that the dog is friendly. He is not afraid of animals - in fact he loves riding horses whenever we visit my brother-in-law who keeps a stable; and somehow the horses seem to warm to him.

I am sure he will get over this incident in spite of the ignorance of the owners.

Cheers,
Nick
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  #30  
Old 03.03.2010, 20:12
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Re: Lange Erlen (public park) and dogs

OT: Where is this trail? I didn't know such a thing exists.

Edit to add : Yes, the vitaparcour - the thing with the trail and the exercise points (and the wild dogs).

Last edited by adrianlondon; 03.03.2010 at 20:25.
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Old 03.03.2010, 20:15
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Re: Lange Erlen (public park) and dogs

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OT: Where is this trail? I didn't know such a thing exists.
Do you mean the vitaparcour?
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  #32  
Old 03.03.2010, 20:43
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Re: Lange Erlen (public park) and dogs

Hi,

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the vitaparcour - the thing with the trail and the exercise points (and the wild dogs).
Here is some background (in German):

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitaparcours

The ones in or near Basel I know of are Lange Erlen:
http://www.vitaparcours.ch/d/html/_standort.html?ID=112

Binningen (end of Tram 8 - Neuwilerstrasse)
http://www.vitaparcours.ch/d/html/_standort.html?ID=100

The official website has a comprehensive list:
http://www.vitaparcours.ch

Cheers,
Nick
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  #33  
Old 04.03.2010, 13:05
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Re: Lange Erlen (public park) and dogs

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It's what I was taught to do when I was a kid - worked every time.

Airguns are also quite effective.

Cheers,
Nick
Have you ever seen the damage an airgun can do to an animal? I worked at a vets back in the UK and we had several cats come in with airgun pellets lodged in their bodies which couldn't be removed due to being too close to vital organs and blood vessels. These cats were in quite a lot of pain, but the only thing that could be done for them was painkillers and antibiotics and the hope that the pellet wouldn't move and do more serious damage, possibly even killing the animal. If anyone shot an airgun at my dog (I have an extremely well behaved german shepherd who gets put on her lead whenever there are small children around) I would not hesitate in doing something to the person doing the shooting and would definitely get the police involved.

Please do NOT teach your son to do anything like this to any animal, and that includes throwing stones or using a catapult, as others have said this could cause a playful / inquisitive dog to turn into a nasty agressive dog and the results arising from this action could be far worse than a dog just making your son cry.
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  #34  
Old 04.03.2010, 18:06
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Re: Lange Erlen (public park) and dogs

You're quite right. An airgun is perhaps not the best idea - no guarantee of an instant kill.

Cheers,
Nick

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Have you ever seen the damage an airgun can do to an animal? I worked at a vets back in the UK and we had several cats come in with airgun pellets lodged in their bodies which couldn't be removed due to being too close to vital organs and blood vessels. These cats were in quite a lot of pain, but the only thing that could be done for them was painkillers and antibiotics and the hope that the pellet wouldn't move and do more serious damage, possibly even killing the animal. If anyone shot an airgun at my dog (I have an extremely well behaved german shepherd who gets put on her lead whenever there are small children around) I would not hesitate in doing something to the person doing the shooting and would definitely get the police involved.

Please do NOT teach your son to do anything like this to any animal, and that includes throwing stones or using a catapult, as others have said this could cause a playful / inquisitive dog to turn into a nasty agressive dog and the results arising from this action could be far worse than a dog just making your son cry.
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  #35  
Old 05.03.2010, 14:13
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Re: Lange Erlen (public park) and dogs

People like you make me sick
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  #36  
Old 05.03.2010, 14:39
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Re: Lange Erlen (public park) and dogs

OK Ok it's pretty obvious nick is now talking tongue in cheek and 'some' people are taking this way too seriously with the groans
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Old 05.03.2010, 23:33
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Re: Lange Erlen (public park) and dogs

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Give nick a break. I am sure she was very upset when she wrote it. You really dont want your kids to go through this experience and the child is practically a baby. It is dog owners responsibility to make sure the dog does not attack anyone. They need to be vigilant.
Unfortunately Nick advised his child that it was correct and a good reaction to do bodily harm to animals who were not trying to harm him at all simply because he was afraid -- so no break given from me. Your fear is not a justification for violent acts.

STUPID IGNORANT PARENTS who overreact often cause more problems than exist in the first place. Your overreaction tells your kid there WAS something to be scared of (there wasn't clearly or you would have written about having to fight off the dog etc.) and encourages him to be more fearful next time rather than brave. Great.

If my dogs reacted in fearful attacks every time some small child ran up to them at full tilt (or sometimes screaming their heads off) to pet them, people would want them put down for 'aggressive behavior' - so why is it acceptable for some idiot kid or parent who is frightened of NOTHING REAL, not one threatening behavior in a dog - to try to hit it, throw stones at it etc. ??

So I guess if we use that logic - if your adolescent kids are running around near me, screaming and playing, and I don't like because I feel threatened by teenagers in general (I read in the paper teen crime is on the rise) - it is it OK if I just go up and slug them between the eyes or punch them in the guts to pre-empt anything bad happening to me ?
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  #38  
Old 06.03.2010, 01:03
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Re: Lange Erlen (public park) and dogs

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Today I was running around the Vita Parcours [exercise trail] with my small son - who was also making a good effort at all the exercise stations.

On the trail there was a couple who had 3-4 large dogs including a Great Dane and an Alsatian [German Shepherd] all of which were off the lead and came bounding up to my son (who is just short of 3 years old) and gave him a real fright - the poor little lad was totally shocked and in floods of tears.

The couple did nothing to apologise to me or my son - instead the excuse given (I think with regard to the Dane) was "he's just a baby". I told the inconsiderate **** that my son is also just a baby and that people who own large dogs have a duty to keep them under control - especially in a public park. They also accused my son of not being under control - not possible as he was holding my hand and immediately cowered behind me as soon as he saw the dogs.

I was really too concerned about comforting my son to spend time remonstrating with these idiots - I wish I had the presence of mind to take down their car number and report it to the police.

Normally I forbid my son to throw stones, however today I told him in the case of a nasty dog, he is allowed to throw a stone right at the dog - and preferably get the bugger between the eyes.

Note to self: buy pepper spray and a catapult.

Cheers,
Nick
I know how you feel! I soooooooo hate it when people let their dogs run loose in a park! I was in a park once where some lady let her dog run loose and the dog suddenly started running towards me and just before he reached me a guy came jogging by out of nowhere and the dog changed direction and chased him till the owner finally caught up and grabbed the dog. I wish people will keep their dogs on leashes in public like that. I like dogs, but you never know if other people's dogs are agressive or not and sometimes the dogs do it unpredictably. Plus I have seen two people with dogs off leashes where the two dogs were ready to fight each other and niether owner had a leash on them in which to control them. The rule is there for a reason in the park, all dogs should be on leashes. Period.
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Old 06.03.2010, 01:04
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Re: Lange Erlen (public park) and dogs

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So I guess if we use that logic - if your adolescent kids are running around near me, screaming and playing, and I don't like because I feel threatened by teenagers in general (I read in the paper teen crime is on the rise) - it is it OK if I just go up and slug them between the eyes or punch them in the guts to pre-empt anything bad happening to me ?
That sounds like an excellent idea!

Although I'd use an airgun... they'll remember it longer.
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Old 06.03.2010, 01:17
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Re: Lange Erlen (public park) and dogs

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So you taught your son to turn an over-friendly dog into an angry dog. I hope that works out for you.
Yeah I would not teach the kid to throw rocks at a dog, that could turn out disasterous making the agressive dog even more agressive, or making a friendly dog become agressive. No don't tell him to do that. He may misjudge a freindly dog or a nearby dog who doesn't even see him and throw a rock at it making the dog come after him. Sit him down and tell him not to do that.


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exactly, we all agree - hence catapults and stones at the dog is not the answer and I think Nick might be a he
LOL! I need a taser gun like the Jackson kids bought online that should do the trick for agressive dogs.
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