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Old 04.04.2010, 20:45
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Are expats in CH more bitter than in other countries ?

I was just reading the thread started by Schweizerin and somehow I got the feeling that a lot of people on this forum are quite bitter and don't want to be in CH.
Am I correct in my observation ? Are golden handcuffs really that solid ? Would you have left CH if the pay wasn't that good w.r.t. other EU countries ?
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Old 04.04.2010, 20:50
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Re: Are expats in CH more bitter than in other countries ?

I think people rarely write on internet fora if they have something positive to say.

Cheers,
Nick

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I was just reading the thread started by Schweizerin and somehow I got the feeling that a lot of people on this forum are quite bitter and don't want to be in CH.
Am I correct in my observation ? Are golden handcuffs really that solid ? Would you have left CH if the pay wasn't that good w.r.t. other EU countries ?
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Old 04.04.2010, 20:53
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Re: Are expats in CH more bitter than in other countries ?

No. I do believe that's not correct. People just vent a little because their homesick or frustrated or apprehensive in a new country. Adapting to a new culture, new language can be a rather daunting experience.

Most expats are very sad when they do return home, and many are delighted to have lived here.

You do take a little of Switzerland with you
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Old 04.04.2010, 20:54
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Re: Are expats in CH more bitter than in other countries ?

If I was an expat in China, I'd probably bitch online too if I was allowed...

Seriously, there is a happy yet silent majority who have bought and invested their lives here

An analogy would be the BBC only gets letters of complaint, never compliments.
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Old 04.04.2010, 21:05
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Re: Are expats in CH more bitter than in other countries ?

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I was just reading the thread started by Schweizerin and somehow I got the feeling that a lot of people on this forum are quite bitter and don't want to be in CH.
Am I correct in my observation ? Are golden handcuffs really that solid ? Would you have left CH if the pay wasn't that good w.r.t. other EU countries ?
Not really, but many feel cheated in a way. Switzerland tells well educated and fairly wealthy people from 'outside' to be openminded and liberal and multicultural and tolerant, which of course is a bit of a betrayal Those UK USA IRL AUS NZ immigrants only after arrival realize that "multiculturalism and liberalism in regard to cuisine and construction etc means open towards the Italianita, that tolerance means tolerance for Mediterranean cultures, and that tolerance does NOT mean those ugly Germans !
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Old 04.04.2010, 21:11
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Re: Are expats in CH more bitter than in other countries ?

I am german , but was never proud of being one.
If I can get a passport of canada ,australia or switzerland, i will put my german passport in the rubbish.
Being happy here,zurich is far better then any place in germany.
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Old 04.04.2010, 21:19
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Re: Are expats in CH more bitter than in other countries ?

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I am german , but was never proud of being one.
If I can get a passport of canada ,australia or switzerland, i will put my german passport in the rubbish.
Being happy here,zurich is far better then any place in germany.
all good as long as you credit with your home country the basis you got. A decent basic education. An idea about serious work.

A short work into history will show you that Zch until 1351 was a proud Free Imperial city of the German Empire. So that everybody here except those folks from the "Innerschwiiiiz" is "German" in a way. Even if that, I agree, is a rather doubtful "quality" in view of the history of the 20th century
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Old 04.04.2010, 21:20
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Re: Are expats in CH more bitter than in other countries ?

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I am german , but was never proud of being one.
If I can get a passport of canada ,australia or switzerland, i will put my german passport in the rubbish.
Being happy here,zurich is far better then any place in germany.
I do apologize for being puzzled, no offense meant, but why on earth would you be upset about being German ?
There many wonderful thing about every country. Take the best, forget the rest
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Old 04.04.2010, 21:23
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Re: Are expats in CH more bitter than in other countries ?

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all good as long as you credit with your home country the basis you got. A decent basic education. An idea about serious work.

A short work into history will show you that Zch until 1351 was a proud Free Imperial city of the German Empire. So that everybody here except those folks from the "Innerschwiiiiz" is "German" in a way. Even if that, I agree, is a rather doubtful "quality" in view of the history of the 20th century
I am sure that everyone is well aware of the events of the 20th century and do not need to be reminded. Without exception, the Germans that I have met (including my husband) harbour a deep seated sense of guilt which hangs over them like a curse.
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Old 04.04.2010, 21:28
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Re: Are expats in CH more bitter than in other countries ?

Ha! This is brilliant, I've found this too. That's why in Zurich there are Italian restaurants next to Italian restaurants for miles and miles. Some cultures are apparently more equal that others.
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Not really, but many feel cheated in a way. Switzerland tells well educated and fairly wealthy people from 'outside' to be openminded and liberal and multicultural and tolerant, which of course is a bit of a betrayal Those UK USA IRL AUS NZ immigrants only after arrival realize that "multiculturalism and liberalism in regard to cuisine and construction etc means open towards the Italianita, that tolerance means tolerance for Mediterranean cultures, and that tolerance does NOT mean those ugly Germans !
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Old 04.04.2010, 21:34
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Re: Are expats in CH more bitter than in other countries ?

Of course i got basic education and a idea of hard work(work in the hotel business), sometimes have to work for around 15hours or more, does not mean anything to me, if i can do that , i think anyone in my team has to do the same.
I don 't like the typical german "gemuetlichkeit", any form of german songs,
as well if there is a bunch of germans they got no manner at all.
I don't know what's the best about germany , may be the german "thoroughness".
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Old 04.04.2010, 21:56
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Re: Are expats in CH more bitter than in other countries ?

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I was just reading the thread started by Schweizerin and somehow I got the feeling that a lot of people on this forum are quite bitter and don't want to be in CH.
Am I correct in my observation ? Are golden handcuffs really that solid ? Would you have left CH if the pay wasn't that good w.r.t. other EU countries ?
i think bitter people are more vocal, it stands to reason that there are more bitter comments. contented people tend to have better things to do than post positive comments or read bitter ones. one might say, posting on forums is the opiate of the (bitter) masses
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Old 04.04.2010, 22:05
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Re: Are expats in CH more bitter than in other countries ?

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I don't know what's the best about germany , may be the german "thoroughness".
Come on. It's not that hard:

1. German engineering in general, cars in particular
2. Beer
3. Ham and sausage; pickles
4. Bread and cakes
5. Some awesome medieval architecture
6. Legacy to philosophy and classical music
7. Produce some pretty good soccer players and damn fine racing drivers
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Old 04.04.2010, 22:06
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Re: Are expats in CH more bitter than in other countries ?

No, I think we are basically critiquing Swiss imagery on how we should perceive the country. It isn't paradise, so its ridiculous to represent it as such. It isn't hell either, so its equally ridiculous to represent it as such.

A lot of it is a matter of expectations. Switzerland is quite fantastic if you have low expectations of it, but can be equally disappointing if you have high expectations of it. So a lot of what you read here can be filed as minor to severe culture shock.

Last edited by Phos; 04.04.2010 at 22:17.
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Old 04.04.2010, 22:10
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Re: Are expats in CH more bitter than in other countries ?

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No, I think we are basically critiquing Swiss imagery on how we should perceive the country. It isn't paradise, so its ridiculous to represent it as such. It isn't hell either, so its equally ridiculous to represent it as such.

A lot of it is a matter of expectations. Switzerland is quite fantastic if you have low expectations of it, but can be equally disappointing if you have high expectations of it. So a lot of what you read here can be filed as minor to sever culture shock.
..in comparasence to various countries, it can also be considered highly frustrating.
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Old 04.04.2010, 22:12
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Re: Are expats in CH more bitter than in other countries ?

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I am sure that everyone is well aware of the events of the 20th century and do not need to be reminded. Without exception, the Germans that I have met (including my husband) harbour a deep seated sense of guilt which hangs over them like a curse.
that "deep-seated sense of guilt" is something they need to get across ! This always reminds me of a visit to Edinburgh, where I by chance at the hotel reception, met two old ladies of Coventry origin. And when the difference between Zurich and Munich (very close in English !) were worked out I turned the table and asked the octogenarians "and what about post war born people from Munich ? Do you keep them guilty of what happened to YOUR city in the war ? The older of them challengened me on saying "I can imagine" and so I replied "NO, I by that mean that I can imagine you never to forget, but no no no, I fail to imagine some things you have seen". The younger of them than told me "your are right, but the generation of my friend of me and me has to be past until your vision of Europe is to become true on this continent.*.

No, I think, your husband and his generatio of Germans should learn to accept the historic lesson on one side but learn to forget about the guilt, and to take the stance that they are NOT liable / responsible of what happened.

As long at least as this does not mean a claim to the extreme. I still remember coming out of a shop in Waldshut and seeing/hearing an old local woman telling a young black that "we German always are honest and say the truth" etc etc etc and I could not stop me from getting forward and telling the good lady "sure, or course, the history of the 20th century is testimony of the truthfulness of the German people, very much so indeed". Interesting was that within a minute are very old local man intervened and told the woman to shut up immediately and that I was completely right, etc ........ we both had whisked away the much shocked African !
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Old 04.04.2010, 22:16
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Re: Are expats in CH more bitter than in other countries ?

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..in comparasence to various countries, it can also be considered highly frustrating.

That is quite true. The worse part of it is how the place compels you to adjust to it. It isn't very forgiving in that regard. It is hard to be your usual self here if you are from somewhere else and have known better. Although, it is possible to be yourself here over time.... or is it just square old me finally fitting into a round hole?
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Old 04.04.2010, 22:19
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Re: Are expats in CH more bitter than in other countries ?

If you want crazy bitter expats come on down here! I think all the loonies have been sent this way. The ones in Switzerland seem rather mild and normal in comparison.
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Old 04.04.2010, 22:21
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Re: Are expats in CH more bitter than in other countries ?

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If you want crazy bitter expats come on down here! I think all the loonies have been sent this way. The ones in Switzerland seem rather mild and normal in comparison.

Where? Near Atlantis? That sounds pretty looney.
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Old 04.04.2010, 22:22
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Re: Are expats in CH more bitter than in other countries ?

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That is quite true. The worse part of it is how the place compels you to adjust to it. It isn't very forgiving in that regard. It is hard to be your usual self here if you are from somewhere else and have known better. Although, it is possible to be yourself here over time.... or is it just square old me finally fitting into a round hole?
The main issue here on being yourself comes rather from your cirlce of friends. I believe. The Swiss tend to be rather unforgiving when sticking out or being different to their belief. You are quickly labelled a weirdo or someone that just doesn't fit in.
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