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Old 03.07.2010, 14:27
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No AC on some public transport

Does anyone know why on some buses and trains the ACs are never turned on. I know some of the older buses, trams, and trains dont have it just by the look but what about the new ones.
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Old 03.07.2010, 14:30
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Re: No AC on some public transport

Because the driver doesnt need it /doesnt care /the thing doesnt work
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Old 03.07.2010, 14:35
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Re: No AC on some public transport

Our train was lovely and cool with the AC yesterday, but the tram home was unbearable, do trams not have it?
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Old 03.07.2010, 14:39
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Re: No AC on some public transport

Maybe because at current temperatures and with doors opening every couple of minutes, it's just a big waste of time/energy?
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Old 03.07.2010, 14:47
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Re: No AC on some public transport

Or maybe because in Europe it is just not that common to spend your life in a fridge.
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Old 03.07.2010, 15:30
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Re: No AC on some public transport

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Maybe because at current temperatures and with doors opening every couple of minutes, it's just a big waste of time/energy?
If that's the case, then why put on heating in the dead of winter?
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Old 03.07.2010, 15:47
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Re: No AC on some public transport

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If that's the case, then why put on heating in the dead of winter?
Because (corrrect me if im wrong), theres a big difference between the efficiency and energy required to keep something cool in surrounding heat, and to warm it up in surrounding cold.
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Old 03.07.2010, 15:53
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Re: No AC on some public transport

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If that's the case, then why put on heating in the dead of winter?
Wikipedia reference-linkSecond_law_of_thermodynamics
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Old 03.07.2010, 15:57
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Re: No AC on some public transport

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Does anyone know why on some buses and trains the ACs are never turned on. I know some of the older buses, trams, and trains dont have it just by the look but what about the new ones.
I think the cockpit has it's own air conditioning, so the driver is maybe oblivious to the cabin temperatures...

It's not too bad here, try the Central Line in Summer. Now that is uncomfortable.
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Old 03.07.2010, 17:50
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Re: No AC on some public transport

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Because (corrrect me if im wrong), theres a big difference between the efficiency and energy required to keep something cool in surrounding heat, and to warm it up in surrounding cold.
My point was that heating and cooling is for the comfort of the passengers. If they're heated in winter, why shouldn't they be cooled in summer? Most modern public transport in Switzerland has windows that don't open - making them sweltering sweatboxes when there is no cooling running.
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Old 03.07.2010, 18:17
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Re: No AC on some public transport

I agree that it is uncomfortable and can be a bit "fragrant" but it's true that it is extremely wasteful to use air conditioning. Once we've grown accustomed to a narrow range of comfort it's really difficult to deal! It's especially too bad that the windows can't open. A little breeze and movement of air would be helpful. But you will get used to it. I lived in Arizona for a year and we always kept our a/c at work at 85. We also spent a lot of time outside in the 105-115 degree heat. It's amazing how adaptable our bodies are and it actually is better when there are not a lot of extreme back and forths between freezing and hot. Once you get used to this in Switzerland and find yourself in a heavily air conditioned place, you'll be freezing!
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Old 03.07.2010, 19:09
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Re: No AC on some public transport

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I agree that it is uncomfortable and can be a bit "fragrant" but it's true that it is extremely wasteful to use air conditioning. Once we've grown accustomed to a narrow range of comfort it's really difficult to deal! It's especially too bad that the windows can't open. A little breeze and movement of air would be helpful. But you will get used to it. I lived in Arizona for a year and we always kept our a/c at work at 85. We also spent a lot of time outside in the 105-115 degree heat. It's amazing how adaptable our bodies are and it actually is better when there are not a lot of extreme back and forths between freezing and hot. Once you get used to this in Switzerland and find yourself in a heavily air conditioned place, you'll be freezing!
My swiss office colleagues use this excuse about not too much fluctuation in the temperature inside and outside every summer .........but seem to forget all about it in the winter when they insist on heating the office and their houses to a ridiculously high temperature ........
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Old 03.07.2010, 19:20
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Re: No AC on some public transport

Sorry, I read some article about a year ago and just spent 15 minutes trying to find it again... but failed.

Basically, research showed that cooling a hot environment required much less energy than heating a cold environment (in terms of BTUs.) Substantially fewer BTUs were required to cool a home in Arizona than to heat a home in say, Maine. Don't recall numbers but the difference was large and surprising, very counterintuitive. That would imply that running the heater on public transport in winter uses much more energy than cooling in summer. And of course, the costs would vary based on market, energy sources, etc.

If somebody comes across that info, I'd appreciate the backup...
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Last edited by nomadic; 03.07.2010 at 19:24. Reason: changed numbers to costs...
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Old 03.07.2010, 19:28
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Re: No AC on some public transport

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Sorry, I read some article about a year ago and just spent 15 minutes trying to find it again... but failed.

Basically, research showed that cooling a hot environment required much less energy than heating a cold environment (in terms of BTUs.) Substantially fewer BTUs were required to cool a home in Arizona than to heat a home in say, Maine. Don't recall numbers but the difference was large and surprising, very counterintuitive. That would imply that running the heater on public transport in winter uses much more energy than cooling in summer. And of course, the costs would vary based on market, energy sources, etc.

If somebody comes across that info, I'd appreciate the backup...
i think you cant compare heating a house and heating a bus/tram. a engine produces quite a lot of heat, which can be used for heating purposes. no extra energy needed.
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Old 03.07.2010, 19:32
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Re: No AC on some public transport

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i think you cant compare heating a house and heating a bus/tram. a engine produces quite a lot of heat, which can be used for heating purposes. no extra energy needed.
Assuming the bus/tram is powered by combustion rather than electricity, right?
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Old 03.07.2010, 19:44
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Re: No AC on some public transport

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Assuming the bus/tram is powered by combustion rather than electricity, right?
no, as engines powered by electricity arent 100% efficient (not even close). some electricity will get converted to heat!
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Old 04.07.2010, 00:16
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Re: No AC on some public transport

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Sorry, I read some article about a year ago and just spent 15 minutes trying to find it again... but failed.

Basically, research showed that cooling a hot environment required much less energy than heating a cold environment (in terms of BTUs.) Substantially fewer BTUs were required to cool a home in Arizona than to heat a home in say, Maine. Don't recall numbers but the difference was large and surprising, very counterintuitive. That would imply that running the heater on public transport in winter uses much more energy than cooling in summer. And of course, the costs would vary based on market, energy sources, etc.

If somebody comes across that info, I'd appreciate the backup...
I guess you were looking for this ?

But i think the study makes a error by not considering the difference between comfortable temperature and min temperature in minnesota vs comfortable temp. and max temp in florida!!
What i mean is, minnesota has minimum temp. of -40 so house need to be heated by 60 deg. to get comfortable temperature... but in Florida with max temp. at 40 only needs to be cooled by 20 deg. to get comfortable temperature..

Is it just me not understanding the point of the study??
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Old 04.07.2010, 00:57
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Re: No AC on some public transport

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If that's the case, then why put on heating in the dead of winter?
Heating is essential, air conditioning is luxury.

Martin
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Old 04.07.2010, 01:02
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Re: No AC on some public transport

I got on a bus on Thursday and people were melting...I sat down and took out my fold-able fan and so the bus driver (who had a window open next to him) apologized and turned on the AC. I guess it comes to being aware of how people are feeling...it was friggin' warm in there phewwww
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Old 04.07.2010, 01:24
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Re: No AC on some public transport

AC was broken last year on a Train from Geneva to Lausanne...

Man it was hot in that thing, even with the windows down. Those things become ovens thanks to them baking in the sunlight.

The ticketers apologetically explained to us that the AC was dead in that wagon.

I didn't feel like going to another wagon for a 14 minute trip tho', I don't really mind Saunas since I'm a Finn
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