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  #21  
Old 20.10.2010, 11:29
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Re: Open letter to the manufacturers of Swiss electrical appliances

while we're changing things, what we really need is this

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  #22  
Old 20.10.2010, 11:32
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Re: Open letter to the manufacturers of Swiss electrical appliances

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... which is just great when you have a European appliance with a round, two pin plug such as the one shown below. You can usually negotiate these into a Swiss power socket but not into a recessed one!


Actually, depending on the wattage needed by an EU plug they may fit or not. Some have the 2 pins slightly larger such they cannot fit into a Swiss plug at all. Our iron is like that.
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Old 20.10.2010, 11:36
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Re: Open letter to the manufacturers of Swiss electrical appliances

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How new?

I thought this was just for rooms where water may be present such as kitchens and laundry rooms.
I would also like to know 'how new?'. I have those everywhere in my flat. Plus one of the three usually does not work...
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  #24  
Old 20.10.2010, 11:37
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Re: Open letter to the manufacturers of Swiss electrical appliances

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Actually, depending on the wattage needed by an EU plug they may fit or not. Some have the 2 pins slightly larger such they cannot fit into a Swiss plug at all. Our iron is like that.
Yes, correct ... I wasn't sure whether that photo was of a chunky Euro plug or a normal one. But that raises another question: why do European plugs (and old-style Italian plugs, and maybe a few more) need to differ according to wattage? In UK, US, Australia, China, etc -- even Switzerland -- there is one basic type of plug. For exceptionally heavy power-hungry applications, there's usually an industrial variant, but for a domestic iron?
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Old 20.10.2010, 11:39
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Re: Open letter to the manufacturers of Swiss electrical appliances

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I would also like to know 'how new?'. I have those everywhere in my flat. Plus one of the three usually does not work...
Aha! I may be able to help you there. Often, one of the three is marked with a special symbol and is controlled by a switch on the wall. The idea is that you plug a standard lamp into that socket and you can switch it on or off at the wall, just like a ceiling light. It took me months to work that one out.
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Old 20.10.2010, 11:44
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Re: Open letter to the manufacturers of Swiss electrical appliances

Basicallly in Switzerland there are two "new" standard plug variants, two prong and three prong, the middle prong for ground, and it is the cable thickness that changes to accomodate higher wattage. For higher wattage appliances like dishwashers, etc. at 380v and up, there is a whole non-interchangeable set of plugs and sockets.
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Old 20.10.2010, 12:00
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Re: Open letter to the manufacturers of Swiss electrical appliances

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Aha! I may be able to help you there. Often, one of the three is marked with a special symbol and is controlled by a switch on the wall. The idea is that you plug a standard lamp into that socket and you can switch it on or off at the wall, just like a ceiling light. It took me months to work that one out.
If the outlet is controlled by a switch it should have a little black squiggly line next to the port. At least that's how all mine are.
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Old 20.10.2010, 12:06
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Re: Open letter to the manufacturers of Swiss electrical appliances

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while we're changing things, what we really need is this

Er. No. The usb ports possibly yes. But as the OP so nicely pointed out does the Swiss system make it possible to have three plugs in the space of one of those 19th century British plugs. I am sure your electricity drives on the left as well or something...
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Old 20.10.2010, 12:12
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Re: Open letter to the manufacturers of Swiss electrical appliances

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Yes, correct ... I wasn't sure whether that photo was of a chunky Euro plug or a normal one. But that raises another question: why do European plugs (and old-style Italian plugs, and maybe a few more) need to differ according to wattage? In UK, US, Australia, China, etc -- even Switzerland -- there is one basic type of plug. For exceptionally heavy power-hungry applications, there's usually an industrial variant, but for a domestic iron?
Both are Type C connectors. The difference is in current, not wattage, but it's all connected. The skinny connectors are 2.5A @ 250V. The large ones are 16A @ 250V.

So the skinny can do 625W and the big ones 4000W. I imagine irons use 1500 - 2000W. Don't quote me on that, though.
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Old 20.10.2010, 12:34
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Re: Open letter to the manufacturers of Swiss electrical appliances

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Feel free to send Fig. 1 to your team of design experts in India. Some local knowledge may facilitate their efforts to produce useful products.

Thanks.
Design experts in India?? Thats news
Anyways, if you have designers in India, manufacturers in China and implementors in Swiss, this is what you will get.
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  #31  
Old 20.10.2010, 12:52
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Re: Open letter to the manufacturers of Swiss electrical appliances

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So WTF (that's "W" for "why") do you and almost every one of your kin attach to the appliances that you manufacture plugs with whopping great power adapters incorporated into them that fit snugly into one of the power outlets, but obscure the other two, so that no other appliances can be plugged into the powerpoint (see Fig. 3)? Certainly not any other power adapter-incorporating plugs, and not even little slimline ordinary plugs. That's a Swisscom modem plug in Fig. 3, and you can see that they made a half-arsed attempt to angle the power adapter away, but I still can't use the other two power outlets.



Fig. 3: Humungous power adapter-plug combo

I assumed, however rightly or wrongly, that the purpose of this apparently dumb design was actually for electrical safety?

As the there are no GFCI on the outlets here and the circuit breakers / fuse boxes are typically someplace not easily accessed (basement or at the very least a couple floors above or below), they design it to help you avoid overloading a single power source.
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  #32  
Old 20.10.2010, 13:07
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Re: Open letter to the manufacturers of Swiss electrical appliances

We had electrical work done a few weeks ago, so "new" means at least a month. Of course, that may be restricted to Baselland. And old style ones are still legal - it's only if you're fitting a new one that they need to be replaced.
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  #33  
Old 20.10.2010, 13:13
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Re: Open letter to the manufacturers of Swiss electrical appliances

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I assumed, however rightly or wrongly, that the purpose of this apparently dumb design was actually for electrical safety?

As the there are no GFCI on the outlets here and the circuit breakers / fuse boxes are typically someplace not easily accessed (basement or at the very least a couple floors above or below), they design it to help you avoid overloading a single power source.
No. You could easily plug three electric clothes irons in here which would blow the fuse but three mobile phone chargers wouldn't fit and would draw less than one-twentieth of the current.
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  #34  
Old 20.10.2010, 14:41
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Re: Open letter to the manufacturers of Swiss electrical appliances

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I assumed, however rightly or wrongly, that the purpose of this apparently dumb design was actually for electrical safety?
You can safely assume that the design was 100% driven by costs: How do you design plugs for global products in the most effective way? You want to manufacture as much as possible of the entire product in one piece, so you have high numbers and save money. This means that a "sensible cable" - like the ones notebooks typically have, is probably more expensive to produce than the blackberry charger, where you only clip on the last bit of the plug depending on the country.
It is terribly annoying and all it takes to change is to have users complain enough: As soon as the cost savings of 20 Rappen is less than what the customers would be willing to spend for a "good charger" - the manufacturers would adapt. Reality is probably that nobody ever complained... so they do not consider this an important piece to think about. Hate to say so - as I really am not a fan-boy but only a happy user: The one company that does it right is once again Apple: The iPhone chargers have the right form factor that you still fit three plugs in and the MacBook charger with the magnetic connector is simply great...
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Old 20.10.2010, 14:49
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Re: Open letter to the manufacturers of Swiss electrical appliances

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You know that new installations don't allow this

The sockets have to be sunk in now.
You can still buy those in DIY shops such as Migros DIY as far as I know.
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  #36  
Old 20.10.2010, 15:37
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Re: Open letter to the manufacturers of Swiss electrical appliances

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Er. No. The usb ports possibly yes. But as the OP so nicely pointed out does the Swiss system make it possible to have three plugs in the space of one of those 19th century British plugs. I am sure your electricity drives on the left as well or something...
Admittedly they are huge but they have the advantage of flat sided pins. This allows a better contact area and reduces the possibility of arcing.

They are also a huge improvement over the old 5 amp round-pin plugs and sockets and the bigger versions for 15 amps. Both these are still in use in India, I noted to my dismay when I lived there - the curse of the empire lives on!

I believe all uk plugs are fused. Of course, when a fuse does blow, people tend replace them with a 13 amp one regardless of the appliance!
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Old 20.10.2010, 16:00
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Re: Open letter to the manufacturers of Swiss electrical appliances

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You can still buy those in DIY shops such as Migros DIY as far as I know.
They're called Type 12 sockets. The sunken ones are Type 13.

Either NotAllThere has got his wires crossed, his electrician has fitted only type 13 out of choice, or Baselland has its own rules.

I couldn't find anything on the web to suggest this was a new requirement in Switzerland.
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  #38  
Old 11.11.2010, 12:24
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Re: Open letter to the manufacturers of Swiss electrical appliances

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They're called Type 12 sockets. The sunken ones are Type 13.

Either NotAllThere has got his wires crossed, his electrician has fitted only type 13 out of choice, or Baselland has its own rules.

I couldn't find anything on the web to suggest this was a new requirement in Switzerland.
I have my ideas, but I will ask my recently qualified Swiss electrical son tonight.

Incidentally in 1986 there was a European designed plug approved, similar to the Swiss. It was never used in Europe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_60906-1 only in Brazil.

.
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  #39  
Old 11.11.2010, 12:31
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Re: Open letter to the manufacturers of Swiss electrical appliances

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E... one of those 19th century British plugs. I am sure your electricity drives on the left as well or something...
They are the best designed plugs in the world - See here: euro plug 0 out of infinity, British 10/10

Fused live wire, high capacity, earth prong which is even longer than the rest, so it opens the safety shutters on the Live/neutral sockets which prevents little johhny getting a shock. And the live & neutral pins are normally covered in plastic for the part nearest the plug so you don't get a shock if your fingers curl around the plug as you plug it in etc etc.
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Old 11.11.2010, 13:21
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Re: Open letter to the manufacturers of Swiss electrical appliances

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They are the best designed plugs in the world - See here: euro plug 0 out of infinity, British 10/10

Fused live wire, high capacity, earth prong which is even longer than the rest, so it opens the safety shutters on the Live/neutral sockets which prevents little johhny getting a shock. And the live & neutral pins are normally covered in plastic for the part nearest the plug so you don't get a shock if your fingers curl around the plug as you plug it in etc etc.
Most of which are redundant now that things have moved on and all new buildings have electrical circuits with RCD protection.
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