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  #321  
Old 17.05.2021, 18:35
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Re: Arrived 10 yrs ago with $150; have since cost the taxpayer almost a million franc

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Not sure if this belongs in daily life.

Can't find my original thread from ca November 2010, summarizing my plan to arrive here "with a one-way ticket and $150," and then proceed straight to the dole line, but I recall it being quite... popular. My detractors (~70% of you) turned out to be right, and I'm still unemployed. Wasn't my intention. Just sort of happened. Apparently I'm a bit mad.

Most of the money spent was through IV waste (ca 600k in 3 years). I guess IV exists mostly to enrich dubious companies set up to handle "integration."
No oversight. I would guess there's bribery involved, though it could just be spectacular incompetence. I've always had a hard time with Hanlon's razor.

Currently awaiting pension review after being told I can't be integrated, after I was paid 45k a year, for three years, to do nothing, as the official integration measure (while my so-called employers were paid 2-3x that amount).

That's my 10-year review of CH. Been a pretty boring 10 years, to be honest. How are ya'll doing?
So what have you actually achieved in that 10 years since you came, have you at least:

1) Learned German to some degree of fluency?
2) Made any close friends?
3) Done any regular paid work or explored any other career options using your English skills?
2) Done any charity/volunteer work while not working?
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  #322  
Old 17.05.2021, 18:43
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Re: Arrived 10 yrs ago with $150; have since cost the taxpayer almost a million franc

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They already have it .... why do you think they are still here
Oh heck. Well, it must be a special kind of hell to have one's entire existence constrained by the workings of bureaucrats. Or to know that there is not really much point in even trying to get a job because you would only be paying off what you owe society.

Anyone still on the fence about a universal income: See here, folks, exhibit A of why it is a good idea. The actual money received by the person is almost matched by the administrative cost of establishing their right to the state funding they have received.

It seems entirely unlikely that they will ever contribute financially to society, I certainly wouldn't hire them with this mindset. And yet, thousands of francs will be wasted each year to establish that fact, so it would seem more reasonable to make a one-off assessment and tie this to following some kind of low-admin set of requirements.
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  #323  
Old 17.05.2021, 18:52
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Re: Arrived 10 yrs ago with $150; have since cost the taxpayer almost a million franc

As said by somebody else, still far from the taxpayers money going to subsidize yet more useless goals (I am thinking on banks, over ruling, misusing police to fine people for *whatever* instead of actually helping citizens, racist political parties' support, polluting business / enterprises usw usw).

Last edited by suissa; 17.05.2021 at 19:22. Reason: Typo
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  #324  
Old 17.05.2021, 18:58
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Re: Arrived 10 yrs ago with $150; have since cost the taxpayer almost a million franc

I didn‘t believe the OP in 2010 - and I don‘t believe the troll now...
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  #325  
Old 17.05.2021, 19:12
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Re: Arrived 10 yrs ago with $150; have since cost the taxpayer almost a million franc

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Not sure if this belongs in daily life.

Can't find my original thread from ca November 2010, summarizing my plan to arrive here "with a one-way ticket and $150," and then proceed straight to the dole line, but I recall it being quite... popular. My detractors (~70% of you) turned out to be right, and I'm still unemployed. Wasn't my intention. Just sort of happened. Apparently I'm a bit mad.

Most of the money spent was through IV waste (ca 600k in 3 years). I guess IV exists mostly to enrich dubious companies set up to handle "integration."
No oversight. I would guess there's bribery involved, though it could just be spectacular incompetence. I've always had a hard time with Hanlon's razor.

Currently awaiting pension review after being told I can't be integrated, after I was paid 45k a year, for three years, to do nothing, as the official integration measure (while my so-called employers were paid 2-3x that amount).

That's my 10-year review of CH. Been a pretty boring 10 years, to be honest. How are ya'll doing?
Dead easy, one would think you had enough time to learn the minimal skills necessary to find it:
arrived-ch-one-way-ticket-almost-no-money-intending-stay
Didn't read it. Your post now is boring, no big achievement to live at cost of society, specially not here.
Much more interesting would be: What wonderful things did you do with all the free time?
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  #326  
Old 17.05.2021, 20:38
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Re: Arrived 10 yrs ago with $150; have since cost the taxpayer almost a million franc

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Oh heck. Well, it must be a special kind of hell to have one's entire existence constrained by the workings of bureaucrats. Or to know that there is not really much point in even trying to get a job because you would only be paying off what you owe society.

Anyone still on the fence about a universal income: See here, folks, exhibit A of why it is a good idea. The actual money received by the person is almost matched by the administrative cost of establishing their right to the state funding they have received.

It seems entirely unlikely that they will ever contribute financially to society, I certainly wouldn't hire them with this mindset. And yet, thousands of francs will be wasted each year to establish that fact, so it would seem more reasonable to make a one-off assessment and tie this to following some kind of low-admin set of requirements.
That's funny. I came to almost the opposite conclusion. Some people will do nothing if they can get away with it, so if they are inclined to do so, discourage them by making their lives hell and make them turn up to the dole centre at 8 sharpish every day.
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  #327  
Old 17.05.2021, 20:43
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Re: Arrived 10 yrs ago with $150; have since cost the taxpayer almost a million franc

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This is a Friday thread. At least you are in zero danger of getting citizenship
They are Swiss descent but are native English speakers. Too late basically.
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  #328  
Old 17.05.2021, 20:45
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Re: Arrived 10 yrs ago with $150; have since cost the taxpayer almost a million franc

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I didn‘t believe the OP in 2010 - and I don‘t believe the troll now...
It would be a pretty damn elaborate and dilligent troll to make 160 posts in various sections of this forum that do seem to more or less make sense when combined with his original story. Most trolls don't make it past 5 posts before their stories start to visibly unravel.
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  #329  
Old 17.05.2021, 20:57
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Re: Arrived 10 yrs ago with $150; have since cost the taxpayer almost a million franc

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That's funny. I came to almost the opposite conclusion. Some people will do nothing if they can get away with it, so if they are inclined to do so, discourage them by making their lives hell and make them turn up to the dole centre at 8 sharpish every day.
Well, would you rather have companies pay people who have zero motivation or ability to work hard clogging up businesses? The sort of money under discussion would only allow for living in a flatshare or far away from the cities (which I guess is fine if you are not going to be working anyway) and not owning a car unless several people pool their resources. Leasing a car or getting any other type of loan would be near impossible as our law on loan conditions stipulate that you can only lend an amount that the person can pay off within 36 months. I guess living in a camper van and travelling the world would become more common but you would have to save up for that first.

I think it would have to be a case of you only being eligible for the universal income in the country where you were either born or have worked full time for at least a certain number of years. It would make the asylum system a bit of a headache too, as a universal income may create a false incentive. Quite a lot of kinks that still need smoothing out, but if you hear the figures involved in running our current social services industry (because that is frankly what it is), then it would probably still work out cheaper.

I'm not an economist or philosophy scholar, so I don't understand all the moving parts of this equation. All I know is that more and more "simple" jobs are disappearing and we need to figure out a way to look after the people currently doing them without it becoming an even greater administrative and fiscal burden.
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  #330  
Old 17.05.2021, 21:10
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Re: Arrived 10 yrs ago with $150; have since cost the taxpayer almost a million franc

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1) I think it would have to be a case of you only being eligible for the universal income in the country where you were either born or have worked full time for at least a certain number of years. It would make the asylum system a bit of a headache too, as a universal income may create a false incentive. Quite a lot of kinks that still need smoothing out, but if you hear the figures involved in running our current social services industry (because that is frankly what it is), then it would probably still work out cheaper.

2) I'm not an economist or philosophy scholar, so I don't understand all the moving parts of this equation. All I know is that more and more "simple" jobs are disappearing and we need to figure out a way to look after the people currently doing them without it becoming an even greater administrative and fiscal burden.
1) I highly doubt that's compatible with EU treaties. And what about Swiss born abroad like the OP? (And indeed Ausländers born in Switzerland - would they be eligible for life). How about naturalised people who weren't born here but this is their one and only home (e.g. my daughter came at 6 months)

2) People have been saying that since about 1760 and the start of the industrial revolution yet unemployment is where it is.

Im happy to spend money on helping people who've been unfortunate enough to lose their job get back to work in a thoughtful, sensitive and useful way (although for me RAV pay is too generous).

What I'm talking about is the long term idler and slacker, of which there are relatively few. Surely there is a way we can them up at 6:30 sweeping the streets or something for a pittance. Because ultimately it's not right that people can choose to do nothing and get their accommodation and food paid for by those that do even if their standard of living is pretty low.
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  #331  
Old 17.05.2021, 21:15
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Re: Arrived 10 yrs ago with $150; have since cost the taxpayer almost a million franc

Something tells me that there is at least one "simple job" available for OP to try. Good luck, OP, up and at it!
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  #332  
Old 17.05.2021, 21:26
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Re: Arrived 10 yrs ago with $150; have since cost the taxpayer almost a million franc

this is media/newspaper provocation - awaiting expat community reaction to see how (non-swiss) respond differently to mainstream as well to official line of gvt.

another of these is "can I get some job just to survive - I have no permit to stay but good reason so please help me"
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  #333  
Old 17.05.2021, 21:29
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Re: Arrived 10 yrs ago with $150; have since cost the taxpayer almost a million franc

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I was paid 45k a year, for three years, to do nothing
Many forum members here are paid 120k+ to do nothing
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  #334  
Old 17.05.2021, 21:33
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Re: Arrived 10 yrs ago with $150; have since cost the taxpayer almost a million franc

If OP really wanted to piss off taxpayers, he'd should abuse any substance at hand and get interned in a cozy madhouse...that would be truly expensive. Lots of taxes spent

From certain perspective he's more integrated than he acknowledges: takes money in silence instead of begging on the streets. As long as he stays out of sight, most of people will be happy.
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Old 17.05.2021, 21:42
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Re: Arrived 10 yrs ago with $150; have since cost the taxpayer almost a million franc

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Many forum members here are paid 120k+ to do nothing
This is called "pay for delay" and it's not for nothing - it's for people with great potential to not to realise it somewhere else . Realising someones potential in company that is paying only for delay is another thing. that is 240k upwards
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  #336  
Old 17.05.2021, 21:44
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Re: Arrived 10 yrs ago with $150; have since cost the taxpayer almost a million franc

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If OP really wanted to piss off taxpayers, he'd should abuse any substance at hand and get interned in a cozy madhouse...that would be truly expensive. Lots of taxes spent

From certain perspective he's more integrated than he acknowledges: takes money in silence instead of begging on the streets. As long as he stays out of sight, most of people will be happy.
We have couple houses in the community that are for people which need help and social help - they do not look nice - and when I inquired whenever community would consider renovating it - I was told it be like inviting people not to work - so here it is ...
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  #337  
Old 17.05.2021, 21:53
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Re: Arrived 10 yrs ago with $150; have since cost the taxpayer almost a million franc

Hahaha, what a thread.
So many forum members there that haven't been around lately, it almost made me feel nostalgic!

Last edited by greenmount; 17.05.2021 at 22:36.
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  #338  
Old 17.05.2021, 22:37
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Re: Arrived 10 yrs ago with $150; have since cost the taxpayer almost a million franc

I know you got a lot of negative responses in your initial thread and unfortunately you are likely to get a lot more in this one. Even so, I'd be interested in reading more about what you've been going through, and have chosen to do, and been made to do, since you arrived in Switzerland ten years ago. It doesn't sound like your life has been easy, not at all.

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My detractors (~70% of you) turned out to be right, and I'm still unemployed. Wasn't my intention. Just sort of happened. Apparently I'm a bit mad.

Most of the money spent was through IV waste (ca 600k in 3 years).... companies set up to handle "integration."

Currently awaiting pension review after being told I can't be integrated...
Presumably, you started off by going more or less from the airport to the Sozialamt for immediate support. That's your full right, as a Swiss citizen. Did you, and what happened then? How did you find accommodation, and how did you cope during that first winter? How did your initial job-searches go?

At some point, later, you applied to (or were sent to?) the IV. (For anyone reading this thread who might not know that abbreviation, it's the Swiss national Disability Insurance, in German Invalidenversicherung.)

If I've understood your "apparently I'm a bit mad" correctly, it means the application to the Disability Office was made since you're unable to earn a living because of mental illness. I'm sorry to hear that. Facing up to that definition of oneself cannot be at all easy to deal with, and could be quite an emotional blow, especially for someone who used to be able to study.

The Disability Office, having its policy of "Integration before a Pension" will have sent you to work for some company/companies on a trial basis. At least in principle, it sounds like a lofty political aspiration, and perhaps it could really be a positive turning point for some, helping to get them into working life. But only some.

Now that, however, you've been told (by whom? by the employer conducting the "integration measures"? by a case manager?) that you "can't be integrated", how are you spending your days?
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  #339  
Old 18.05.2021, 11:55
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Re: Arrived 10 yrs ago with $150; have since cost the taxpayer almost a million franc

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Many forum members here are paid 120k+ to do nothing
They worked hard to get there though.
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  #340  
Old 18.05.2021, 14:06
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Re: Arrived 10 yrs ago with $150; have since cost the taxpayer almost a million franc

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I know you got a lot of negative responses in your initial thread and unfortunately you are likely to get a lot more in this one. Even so, I'd be interested in reading more about what you've been going through, and have chosen to do, and been made to do, since you arrived in Switzerland ten years ago. It doesn't sound like your life has been easy, not at all.



Presumably, you started off by going more or less from the airport to the Sozialamt for immediate support. That's your full right, as a Swiss citizen. Did you, and what happened then? How did you find accommodation, and how did you cope during that first winter? How did your initial job-searches go?

At some point, later, you applied to (or were sent to?) the IV. (For anyone reading this thread who might not know that abbreviation, it's the Swiss national Disability Insurance, in German Invalidenversicherung.)

If I've understood your "apparently I'm a bit mad" correctly, it means the application to the Disability Office was made since you're unable to earn a living because of mental illness. I'm sorry to hear that. Facing up to that definition of oneself cannot be at all easy to deal with, and could be quite an emotional blow, especially for someone who used to be able to study.

The Disability Office, having its policy of "Integration before a Pension" will have sent you to work for some company/companies on a trial basis. At least in principle, it sounds like a lofty political aspiration, and perhaps it could really be a positive turning point for some, helping to get them into working life. But only some.

Now that, however, you've been told (by whom? by the employer conducting the "integration measures"? by a case manager?) that you "can't be integrated", how are you spending your days?
Yeah, I went straight to the ZAV, since I wasn't registered in any gemeinde. They did everything they could to avoid accepting me into the system. Spent months at the röntgenstrasse shelter and heils armee, receiving no money or integration assistance (but food and shelter). Eventually, after they realized I wasn't going to give up, they cut the bs, followed the law, and accepted my application, and I got a flatshare with some algerians I met at the salvation army.

First basisbeschäftigung, then german classes (b1 telc), and later various jobs they have set up to motivate us and I assume manipulate unemployment statistics. There are a lot of people working in the so-called second job market. You do have to work while on welfare here. And they have job search quotas.

After years of trying unsuccessfully to find a job in "the first market," and after being told I was autistic, presumably because I like consistency and logic, I was encouraged by the gemeinde to seek help from IV.

The idea was an Umschulung, integration, not a pension, though as know it's one application. I was sent to two different institutions, both of which just passively collected money and stressed loyalty to the scam. Most of us were very young. If you're 18, getting 4k+ a month at your fake apprenticeship, while your normie friends are getting 900, you aren't very likely to make a fuss about not doing or learning anything. I was considerably older, and did make a fuss, before being told to shut up and take the money by my IV berater. One of the institutions was receiving chf 5850 a month for each one of us, and there were about 70. To another poster pointing out that some people get 120k for doing nothing, I'm assuming it's not 120k of obligatory public insurance contributions (essentially your tax money), unless they're IV employees.

Did that for 3 years before being told I can't be integrated, "you seem unable to learn the skills necessary to integrate into the first job market, for example, following rules without question- "das Diskusionslose annehmen von Auftraege" whatever that means - nevermind that there was no work, or that it shouldn't take 3 years to make such a determination.

Pension is only meant to be considered after integration measures have been exhausted. I've tried pointing out the fact that none were ever seriously tried, but I'm retarded, I suppose . What would i know?

Paradoxically sent to RAV, since IV money includes RAV contributions, by the same people who told me I couldn't work. Did that for a few months but then became overwhelmed with cognitive dissonance and a kind of ptsd, returned to the gemeinde, while I await the ridiculous pension review. 1.5 years and counting.

To those speculating why I'm posting this. I'm not sure. Nobody really engages with me critically on the subject. And it's your money. Even if it's all on me, why was it allowed to happen? Where's SVP when you need them? I think I do have some bad character traits, but I also think that swiss institutions are ridiculous, corrupt, and incompetent. Change my mind.
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