Troll confirmed!

Tom

Also late twenties and has been here for ten years, meant the OP graduated from law school in the US (which is post grad) at the age of 18 or 19

Actually, that was written in 2010, so would be late 30s now, EXCEPT he is magically 40!

Meanwhile, I never knew that South Africa was in New Zealand!

Tom

OP has already explained that, to protect privacy, some of the details have been changed. I'm all for honesty, yes, of course, but when posting online it can make sense to anonymise the details a bit. Admittedly, this has not been done, here, with sufficient consistency. Probably better to just leave identifiers out of the narrative completely.

I don't know OP so can't vouch for the veracity of any of this, but oh, oh, the descriptions are so very similar to what I have heard from the cases I know who were wrung through that system. The frustration and circularity of it all, the annoyance at watching moneys being spent and spent, although they don't actually help the persons needing the help, and then sinking into desperation: all of that rings true, for me, from what I have heard and observed.

And I don't believe the veracity of any of this.

Tom

Quite apart from OP's tale, I observe that this is how it works, or more to the point does not work, for many who are pushed through the system and its work programmes, and lose all hope, as blacky rightly put it.

Troll .?.. provocation? ... Troll ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0AU7w5qbPU

You got me there. I wouldn't work at mcdonalds. I know I shouldn't have this attitude, but I would rather die than work at mcdonalds, or anything food service related.

But I'd do most things and have tried, but the problem is credentials. You need an Ausbildung to deliver the mail here.

I claimed new zealand? lol. Yes I was trying to protect my identity back then. I also claimed I was posting from Alaska and that my citizenship was based on my grandmother being swiss instead of my grandfather. Apparently only one or two people weren't (frankly) stupid enough to consider these things material.

Thank you, those people. Not everyone is an npc. To the others, consider whether you'd approve of the system if you assumed it was true, through the magic of the hypothetical.

There are always ways to be disingenuous and abuse the system, doesn't mean it is a good or an ethical thing to do.

There is an alternative trend to retire extremely early, to make oneself completely self-sustainable, google if interested. Like at 30. Denouncing the culture of consumerism and self-pampering, entitlement. It looks like OP is taking it to another level, not retiring - not getting a job at all instead. Just the self-sustainability and self-reliance is missing.

It does look disingenuous way from the start, I don't get the purpose of intentionally misleading people here. Why?

__________________
"L'homme ne peut pas remplacer son coeur avec sa tete, ni sa tete avec ses mains." J.H. Pestalozzi

“The only difference between a rut and a grave is a matter of depth.” S.P. Cadman

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." A. Einstein

as said - lies.

however for next round in 10-years it's worth to know

"From January 1, 2018, it will no longer be enough to have a Swiss grandmother or great-grandmother to qualify for a Swiss passport. The country's new citizenship law has more stringent criteria for applicants living abroad."

I think as well this is a newspaper's project.

So do one.

Tom

I also wondered about that. To do an apprenticeship, though, one has to be able to fund it.

The Sozialamt does not usually fund apprenticeships, at all, and if they do, then only if they are satisfied that the training will lead to the person's being able to get off benefits. In this case, however, the Sozialamt has already deemed OP to be not well enough to work to earn his own living, which is why they have registered him with the Disability Office. This means that the Sozialamt will not fund OP to do an apprenticeship.

The Disablity Office has an official policy of "integration before a pension".

Sinking wrote, earlier, that he has known of success stories: cases of people who have been at the RAV and then managed, thanks to the "integration measures", to successfully integrate into the employment market and hold down a job. As far as I have read, the singular most successful measure is courses in the local language, in OP's case, German.

Perhaps, if OP is very fortunate, the Disability Office might help him to do an apprenticeship, or to learn German, or to study. There, too, however, the assessors will have to have deemed that OP is likely to succeed.

In clear-cut cases, the Disability Office can decree, within months, that it will pay out a pension, and that's that. At least, it is stable just until the next re-assessment, a few years' down the line. In many cases, though, their assessment process can take several years to complete. It consists of registration, wait, wait some more, doctors' reports being required, seeing more doctors, wait, perhaps meeting with a representative of the Disability Office, perhaps "integration measures" (= being sent to work somewhere, to see how it goes, or some courses in how to work, how to integrate into the work-place, etc.), then wait some more, then a report from the company which carried out those measures, and so on.

At the end of that, if OP can manage to follow through all those steps, there might be a possibility that the Disability Office would fund his getting a qualification.

I am glad you didn’t think I was troll

Deliver goods for Coop, Migros etc. You don't need an Ausbildung for that.

There's always a niche if you look more carefully.

To be fair, the whole forum feels like a social experiment....

I wonder how many journalists and "researchers" have quoted EF, I wouldn't be that surprised....

There might be an age limit.

No, the apprenticeship is self funding.

My daughter pays her apartment, food, motorcycle taxes and insurance, and medical insurance all from her apprenticeship stipend.

Tom

Not that I am aware of.

My daughter returned after 5 years in the US to do a second one at 25, about to finish next month at 28, next job already lined up.

Tom

Yes, that's a point. Anyone fulfilling the requirements to be granted a stipend would be alright. Yes.

I've seen people who were not able to live alone on an apprentice's salary, which ranges from about Fr. 900 to Fr. 1'300 per month. On the usual route, apprenticeships are possible at all because those [young] people stay with their parents.

As far as stipends go, perhaps this is one of those things that works differently from canton to canton. They are definitely a good idea.

Here, the procedure includes providing not only full information on one's own income, but also full disclosure on the parents' income for the past few years, even if they live abroad and including any step-parents who are deemed to be a part of the applicant's upbringing. This is not only the case for minors. And it applies to the income of spouses, too. Accordingly, some applications are dismissed outright because the parents cannot be contacted, or death certificates are difficult to get, and many more because the parents refuse to divulge this information.

Those whose applications are approved receive help scaled down according to said parents' financial abilities, whether or not the parents do, in fact, go on to contribute. That reduced stipend is then not always enough to live.

Those whose parents are "poor enough" do qualify, and that's a huge relief. Perhaps, too, there is a cut-off point after which the parents' incomes are deemed irrelevant. That might be so for OP, if he is aged 30 or 40.