Be glad to be proved wrong in my assessment. A “newspaper project” spanning over a decade regarding undeserved benefits of Swiss citizenship. The quite wordy and slightly wacky OP “documents” his odyssey through the corrupt and useless institutions of Switzerland on this site to later publish a sensational exposé – in the Weltwoche, I assume

The KGB used to be known for deep cover agents, planting sleepers etc. etc. I seriously doubt today’s generally shoddy journalism explains the OP’s not always consistent story. If you’re really following a script, not even the NDB would stumble over a NZ/SA mix-up.

BTW, I’d like to thank the well meaning posters for a few official links. Might help to get an also slightly wacky relative out of their self-induced mess

Even aged 25, he would get a total subsidy for health insurance and other, as parents have no further responsibility after 25.

Tom

Oh, yes, since he is with the Sozialamt, they will certainly have obtainted the subsidy for the health insurence (in German "Prämienverbilligung"), and the Sozialamt will cover the rest, automatically.

An apprenticeship, however? No, I don't think that the Sozialamt, nor the office that provides stipends, would help him in covering his living expenses to do that - not now that they have already referred him to the IV.

Then you deserve your fate.

I have worked at McD's, as did many people I know, and it was only to our/their advantage.

Your attitude sucks.

Tom

Stipends come from the company that you are apprenticing at, not a state office!

An apprenticeship has NOTING to do with anyone's income, where do you come up with such nonsense?

Tom

As I posted earlier: perhaps this works differently from canton to canton.

In the canton of Zurich, the employer pays only a very low salary, which starts at around Fr. 900 or Fr. 1'000 and in the subsequent years increases to about Fr. 1'300 per month. That low salary has nothing to do with anyone's income, that's true. It is definitley not enough to live on, independently.

Stipends, on the other hand, come from the Zurich cantonal stipend office, and only if one qualifies upon application. Obtaining a stipend depends upon one's own and one's parents' and spouse's incomes, which must be documented with tax declarations, although, as I said before, there may be exceptions for people aged 30 or 40, where only their own income would count.

Perhaps it works differently in Ticino. Your daughter's situation sounds really good, that she, as an apprentice, is paid a living wage. That might be worth considering for anyone from another canton, who speaks enough Italian, to move to the Ticino, just to get a qualification.

Umm,by stipends I mean the small salary 600-2000 that one gets, depending on the job.

And it IS enough to live on, at least in the later 2 or three years, as my daughter has shown.

Please, stop making up nonsense!

Tom

Not sure what the groan is for, Tom. If the system works better in the Ticino, then that's great. Perhaps that wage is enough to live in on the Ticino, not here.

Here's some info in Zurich
https://www.zh.ch/de/bildung/berufs-...beitraege.html.

I, and others I know, did it in ZH, so you are full of nonsense.

Also, Zurich is not more expensive than Ticino, for taxes and health insurance it is cheaper, food the same, as Migros, Coop, etc. do NOT change their prices by canton!

Tom

Way below poverty line (Armutsgrenze) and just above Existenzgrenze

There is 3 things that needs to be taken into account
- cost of apartment rent
- basic needs
- medical costs

a) Apartment rent average : 1'183 Franken (zurich is 1.3x average).
b) basic needs : 960 Franken
c) medical - 449 Franken

so no, that is not sufficient - even when sharing costs of apartment with friend one still needs 2000CHF/month.

https://www.vimentis.ch/d/lexikon/45...nzminimum.html

Which is very much in line with student life sharing large apartment 4-ways that I am very much aware of and can confirm.

So perhaps Tom's daughter just simply went over at bare minimum of her needs without anyone noticing it or that is just a story for EF forum members.

Aren't parents responsible for upkeep children which are still in school regardless of their age btw ?

I have to admit, I have zero sympathy for your predicament as it seems pretty much all self-inflicted and by your own admission your effort levels were almost zero during the most important phases of your move to CH. What you are now experiencing is regret for the consequences of the initial years of sitting on your ass. Time to put on your big boy pants, lose the ego and make something of your life by starting from the bottom instead of thinking you are too good for all of those "low end" jobs that would in reality put money in your pocket and allow you to build some semblance of a normal life.

The mind boggles that people still take st2lemans seriously. He will say the opposite of anything logical or reasonable just to get the brief flicker attention he craves... and people still fall for it every time.

Apartment 960/2 = 480.

Basic needs 500.

Medical = 0 (100% subsidized)

Tom

Can you please provide information/link on what you state is Subsidized ?

I could not find the thing except :
- under 25 and learning - it's parents responsibility to pay it in full or part and are not eligible for "lower tariff/Prämienverbilligung" - until parents themselves are eligible for.

"Prämienverbilligung für unter 25-Jährige: Antrag über die Eltern
Unter 25-Jährige werden normalerweise von Ihren Eltern ganz oder teilweise finanziert und können deshalb keinen eigenen Anspruch auf Prämienverbilligung geltend machen. Sie können aber trotzdem über ihre Eltern die Prämienverbilligung nutzen. Stellen Sie sicher, dass Sie im Antrag auf Prämienverbilligung Ihrer Eltern aufgeführt sind. Legen Sie dem Antrag dann noch eine Kopie Ihres aktuellen Lehrvertrags bei.
"


tarnslated :


"Reduced premiums for under 25s: application through parents
Children under the age of 25 are usually financed in whole or in part by their parents and therefore cannot claim a premium reduction of their own. However, you can still use the premium reduction through your parents. Make sure you are listed on your parents' premium reduction application. Then enclose a copy of your current apprenticeship contract with the application."

Your link is correct.

My daughter is NOT under 25, so thus my financial situation is irrelevant, and thus she is fully subsidized, as would the OP be should he take an apprenticeship.

Tom

As per one of OP messages: "The idea was an Umschulung, integration, not a pension, though as know it's one application. I was sent to two different institutions, both of which just passively collected money and stressed loyalty to the scam. Most of us were very young. If you're 18, getting 4k+ a month at your fake apprenticeship, while your normie friends are getting 900, you aren't very likely to make a fuss about not doing or learning anything"

It seems that social services did enroll OP in an apprenticeship (which was not completed).

Saying that you aren't likely to learn anything just because you are (well) paid to do so, it's plain stupid.

OP had plenty of chances to integrate and earn his living; by his own assumption, he was "too good to do this", "too good to do that", "didn't want to work at Mc Donalds", "didn't want to learn new skills".

Can we close this thread now?

Actually I see in CH trend towards apprenticeship from kinds that could do very well in science as what they see is easy money (and 1000CHF a months seems a lot to these that never earned a dime @ school).

Apprenticeship is good model - I have some co-workers that done that , few years later learnt it is worth to go do school , did their university and research and changed jobs to more interesting field.

Switzerland has system that allows for adults to go back and learn regardless of your prior experiences , eduction and age - use it to your advantage - it costs nothing.

should you not be good at school - learn one skill very well (be it programming or similar) that you can 'sell' on the market regardless of your eduction

Everybody is too good for their job these days....

I always say that "You worth way more than I can pay you - but I pay you all I can and hope you recognise we see you worth more"

That's a very smooth excuse for underpaying someone, I'll have to remember it.

There is people you want to work for you and with you - however not always budget that would allow for recognising it.

Not many managers there that would pay his direct reports more they earn themselves leave along promote them.

Not many leaders that would see potential in someone that doesn't know he had one - until you let them grow