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  #121  
Old 14.12.2010, 20:26
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Re: Americanization

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but you are in fact, in .... in .... ah shucks ... only Switzerland. A land that maybe isn't as Americanised (with an "s"), as maybe you thought it should be - after all, it's still retaining some it's identity and culture.
It *is* a bit of a shock waking up in the ghetto some days, I must a admit, but it is unique.
The hilarity is that if they actually did 'Americanize' the place and give them evening and weekend shopping, the Swiss would, by and large, embrace it. Especially if they gave them something like warehouse shopping.
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  #122  
Old 14.12.2010, 20:26
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Re: Americanization

First, I do want to say that I love living here, because I appreciate how different it is there where I am from. I would not move back if offered the chance. And politically, I am so far from agreeing with the US rhetoric that I assure you, I have been more upset than most.

But right or wrong, there are Burger Kings, McDonald's, and Starbucks around every corner, American songs in every ipod, American movies on every channel, American movie stars who grace magazine covers in every language, and constant updates of the news from the US on every television channel. One cannot possibly argue that there is no influence at all.

Even Sweden, through IKEA, had influenced my college environment greatly, even if just my surroundings. (Why am I getting the urge for meatballs?)

The fact that a discussion about America is always so polarizing reminds me of, hmmmm, the American political system itself. Nothing changes, and people complain a lot. I feel so at home.

Brings it back to the first post, doesn't it?
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  #123  
Old 14.12.2010, 20:30
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Re: Americanization

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But right or wrong, there are Burger Kings, McDonald's, and Starbucks around every corner
They only put those out there in case some random American comes by, starving because they can't figure out the local food choices. Didn't you get the memo?
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  #124  
Old 14.12.2010, 20:41
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Re: Americanization

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They only put those out there in case some random American comes by, starving because they can't figure out the local food choices. Didn't you get the memo?

It is really the younger Swiss crowd that is buying it, as seen on the trains and buses. And sure, Americans and others stop by as well, but you can hardly argue that they 100% sustain it. Ever been to a McDonald's after the bars close? Wasn't exactly filled with night life tourists.

Wait until they get the 2nd part of the prize...obesity. Hopefully never. I have had my visual fill of that for a lifetime.

Smart choices are made by smart consumers, I never eat that stuff and never will. But someone is, and you cannot blame it all on foreigners.
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  #125  
Old 14.12.2010, 20:46
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Re: Americanization

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Actually, Americans like to romanticize other cultures. We have a representation of every culture in the world in America, so in a sense, it looks and feels like the future of other countries.

America has always been globalized and diverse, which accounts for the eclectic expression of culture, whereas most of the countries of the world have a dominant culture. So we invent culture, and others wish they can.

It's just that we come out with new things, some of which is crap, but the world seems to love to lap it up anyway.
I compared all this with a cousin in Houston, and we, when checking things up, found out that it is a continued give&take. It is not a one-way-street. Just look at Starbucks. An American of German origin on visit to Milano was amazed by Italian coffee, and decided to launch something on that line back in the USA. So that he brought Italian coffee-making methods to the USA and then, his chain jumped over to Europe. When there was a blind-tasting of wines in London or Paris a few years ago, the interesting thing was that the American experts gave preference to European wines and the European experts to American wines. After the prohibition area, wine-growers from France but also from Spain restarted the wine industry in California (Frenchisation of California ? ) and in the meantime, California exports wines to Europe.
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  #126  
Old 14.12.2010, 21:28
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Re: Americanization

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From top left: Amogles, Downerbuzz, Dodgyken, Economisto, GastroGnome
From bottom left: Mirfield, Karl (we gave him to the Brits), DB (crossed legs), Porsch1909, Slammer (LIB ducks for cover before bows start flying)


since when am I a limey?!
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  #127  
Old 14.12.2010, 21:35
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Re: Americanization

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since when am I a limey?!
I thought you were..
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  #128  
Old 14.12.2010, 21:51
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Re: Americanization

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America maybe loves to imitate the semblance of other cultures but mostly it's a disneyworld-style front tacked onto the basic framework of their own culture. All the immigrants do their best to be Americans and most get there in less than a generation while the Americans love the romantic feeling of being able to savour other cultures as long as they don't have to stretch beyond their rather limited comfort zone. Places like London are far more genuinely multicultural than anything I've ever seen in America.
Have you been to Queens (New York City borough)?
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  #129  
Old 14.12.2010, 21:52
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Re: Americanization

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since when am I a limey?!
Since they put you on a convict ship and sent you off with all the others, I bet your lineage harks back to Liverpudlian
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  #130  
Old 14.12.2010, 22:09
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Re: Americanization

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I compared all this with a cousin in Houston, and we, when checking things up, found out that it is a continued give&take. It is not a one-way-street. Just look at Starbucks. An American of German origin on visit to Milano was amazed by Italian coffee, and decided to launch something on that line back in the USA. So that he brought Italian coffee-making methods to the USA and then, his chain jumped over to Europe. When there was a blind-tasting of wines in London or Paris a few years ago, the interesting thing was that the American experts gave preference to European wines and the European experts to American wines. After the prohibition area, wine-growers from France but also from Spain restarted the wine industry in California (Frenchisation of California ? ) and in the meantime, California exports wines to Europe.

Starbucks is an example of American faux culture. A Venti Mocha Frappucino? Dat's Italian! Haha.

I'm quite surprised they even managed to make it here. The coffee in Italy is far superior, IMO. But yet, they've managed to get people to actually pay nearly 8 bucks for one of those? American ingenuity, I say.

One of the trends we've seen are the ready-made stucco mediterannean houses. There is nearly a million of them in the deserts of Las Vegas. That style of housing has even showed up in China.

Last edited by Phos; 15.12.2010 at 00:11.
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  #131  
Old 14.12.2010, 22:39
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Re: Americanization

...hmm, American dominant culture and driving dynamic?

- wannabe -

The modern wannabe driven society never allows anybody to rest in contentment from the cradle to the grave. Wannabe is contagious like nothing else among humans, and since very few are content with who they really are and no one can ever be what they aren't, wannabe can never be fulfilled and is open for infinite exploitation. Being insatiable in and of itself, it now drives the whole world economy, so even if all the shops and malls are open 24/7 it will never be enough.

American marketeers have long known that it makes no difference whatsoever whether a car or a donut is what it should or could be, as long as they can nourish the wannabe germ with a chrome twinkle or sugar glaze, and while the rest of the world may have (had) some immunity, globalization is steamrolling all pockets of resistance.

As long as the Americans can create markets out of wannabe, the Europeans and Asians can produce, while all can be wannabe consumers too, hey, it's all win-win...for a while.

Now the flip side of the coin may be that wannabe is currently driving our Darwinian evolution, and all the innovation and machinations derived out of our wannabe phase will, in the sobering cold light of dawn after the binge, become the motor of real global fulfillment where every child gets a pony and any middle-aged man can have a ponytail if he likes.

.
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  #132  
Old 14.12.2010, 22:51
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Re: Americanization

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Since they put you on a convict ship and sent you off with all the others, I bet your lineage harks back to Liverpudlian
ich don't think so
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  #133  
Old 14.12.2010, 23:04
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Re: Americanization

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When there was a blind-tasting of wines in London or Paris a few years ago, the interesting thing was that the American experts gave preference to European wines and the European experts to American wines. After the prohibition area, wine-growers from France but also from Spain restarted the wine industry in California (Frenchisation of California ? ) and in the meantime, California exports wines to Europe.
I have read somewhere that 100 years ago or so there was a major root-blight that wiped out most French vines and the growers could only recover by importing American species which were more resistant. They grafted their own types onto the American rootstocks so the grapes are nominally still the old types, but anybody who is into plant husbandry will know that the rootstock always influences the taste of the fruit. So that makes most French wines half American anyway.

The fact that wine is shipped across the Atlantic in both directions is good economic sense for the growers. Wine is transported in specially climatised containers that can't be used for much else and so it makes sense if the shippers try make money going both ways. Quite often you get the same companies that market Californian wines in Europe marketing French, Italian and Spanish wines in the USA. And it's good for the consumers as well as it gives them more choice. It may sound absurd at first to hear that it would be good for Calfornian wine growers if New Yorkers drink more Italian wine, but that's how it may be.

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  #134  
Old 15.12.2010, 02:36
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Re: Americanization

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Starbucks is an example of American faux culture. A Venti Mocha Frappucino? Dat's Italian! Haha.

I'm quite surprised they even managed to make it here. The coffee in Italy is far superior, IMO. But yet, they've managed to get people to actually pay nearly 8 bucks for one of those? American ingenuity, I say.

One of the trends we've seen are the ready-made stucco mediterannean houses. There is nearly a million of them in the deserts of Las Vegas. That style of housing has even showed up in China.
Nonsense ! I when speaking about the coffee of Starbucks do NOT mean that Frappucino (teenager) stuff, but the real coffee they have. And that is NOT "haha". Coffee in Italy of course is best ! Amazingly, real coffee at Starbucks is not as expensive as that fashionable junk.

But then I have to put my view into proper context. If I speak about "nonsense" I mean the products, but of course not the shrewd marketing techniques used And sure, in the technique to market absolute rubbish in a supreme way, the US Americans are top world champions
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  #135  
Old 15.12.2010, 10:06
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Re: Americanization

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I think the OP meant Maranello. But how can Mercedes-Benz be compared to Fiat?
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Mercedes-Benz can be compared to FIAT, as what Mercedes is to Stuttgart is FIAT to Torino.
I believe that Stuttgart has far more on offer than Mercedes while FIAT is dominating Torino. So if there is a suitable comparison it would be FIAT/Torino and VW/Wolfsburg.

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In contrast to Stuttgart which doesn't qualify as one of the most beautiful cities on the continent by a long stretch.
And Torino does? Seriously: Are you sure you are not mixing it up with other Italian places? Stuttgart beats Torino in my eyes any day in all cultural aspects from history to the beauty of its buildings... one of the most underestimated city trips and so easy to get there from Zurich...

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  #136  
Old 15.12.2010, 10:11
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Re: Americanization

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And Torino does? Seriously: Are you sure you are not mixing it up with other Italian places? Stuttgart beats Torino in my eyes any day in all cultural aspects from history to the beauty of its buildings... one of the most underestimated city trips and so easy to get there from Zurich...
..oh PHuleeeze! I wasn't going to say anything about your silly car post..but you're really pushing it here. Not even close my friend.
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  #137  
Old 15.12.2010, 10:23
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Re: Americanization

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..oh PHuleeeze! I wasn't going to say anything about your silly car post..but you're really pushing it here. Not even close my friend.
Says the 75% Italian...
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  #138  
Old 15.12.2010, 10:27
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Re: Americanization

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Says the 75% Italian...
...as opposed to the 100% German?
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  #139  
Old 15.12.2010, 10:36
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Re: Americanization

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...as opposed to the 100% German?
But the difference is that Germans love Italy... and have not problem to openly admit it while all Italians I met actually would prefer their country to be "a bit more German", but have a hard time to say it out loud.
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  #140  
Old 15.12.2010, 10:40
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Re: Americanization

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But the difference is that Germans love Italy... and have not problem to openly admit it while all Italians I met actually would prefer their country to be "a bit more German", but have a hard time to say it out loud.
and
a) what does that have to do with Torino being a more interesting place that Stuttgart?

b) who appointed you as the Italo-German intercultural spokesperson?
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