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  #301  
Old 21.12.2010, 11:52
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Re: Absolutely disgusted with American politics and the state of living here....

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..ehm, I don't know how to tell you this, but I believe he died this year.
That's sad. Had no idea he was so well known . . .
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  #302  
Old 21.12.2010, 12:20
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Re: Absolutely disgusted with American politics and the state of living here....

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..ehm, I don't know how to tell you this, but I believe he died this year.
I thought that was an urban legend? (his death, that is).
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  #303  
Old 21.12.2010, 12:22
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Re: Absolutely disgusted with American politics and the state of living here....

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I thought that was an urban legend? (his death, that is).
I believe that we even had a thread about him passing...
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  #304  
Old 21.12.2010, 16:45
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Re: Absolutely disgusted with American politics and the state of living here....

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Why on earth would you expect the US Constitution to apply in other countries?
I don't expect it to just like I don't expect them to read you the Miranda rights. I thought that others on the thread ( too far to go back but perhaps it was Wollishofner) were claiming that Switzerland had separation of church and state, which is quite funny when they collect tax for the 'official' churches and pressure my husband into to choosing a Swiss recognized name for our child.

And, No, I didn't call her Osama or anything offensive to the Swiss I used an ancient non-religious name from a role played by husband's benefactor in a famous opera.

I am still interested though in the process when people are arrested, how long they can be held for questioning, or incarceraed before having access to a lawyer, or offered the services of one.

I was quite successful in Switzerland on my own. I am Swiss, Swiss name, speak English with a British accent, blonde blue-eyed, adequate qualifications. Believe it or not I know how to charm people when I want to. I din't really see any barriers for me,I think that I got all the help I needed

It was when I came to expect the same treatment for my kids of husband. It just shocked people when I turned up with a husband whom they think looks like an Arab terrorist, when you raise the racism problem, etc. I kept my own name because I didn't want the "was fur eine name ist ... "etc. Here in the US the reaction is just "Have, I pronounced that correctly?" and in most cases the have, and it is highly likely that I would have to ask the same of them.
When I went to collect his Swiss passport I got a long questioning about why I was marrying a foreigner,before he would hand it over there was no need for it; the passport had already been issued.

Anyway I should quit being bitter about it- I am sure that things have changed for the better, this was 10 years ago. It is like in the US I remind myself that it was only 40 years ago that Blacks had to use different facilities and schools to whites.
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  #305  
Old 21.12.2010, 18:55
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Re: Absolutely disgusted with American politics and the state of living here....

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The difference is that in the US a large majority get citizenship (or did) whereas Switzerland will send them back and block path to citizenship.
Switzerland naturalizes a higher percentage of immigrant population than the US (2009 figures):


USA 38.5 million foreign-born residents (12.81% of population)
743,715 naturalizations

------>1.9%


Switzerland 1.66 million foreign-born residents (22.89% of population)

42 900 naturalizations

------>2.56%



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...lation_in_2005
http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/s...tz_fr_2009.pdf
http://www.parlament.ch/d/suche/seiten/geschaefte.aspx?gesch_id=20094277
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  #306  
Old 21.12.2010, 19:02
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Re: Absolutely disgusted with American politics and the state of living here....

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Switzerland naturalizes a higher percentage of immigrant population than the US (2009 figures):


USA 38.5 million foreign-born residents (12.81% of population)
743,715 naturalizations

------>1.9%


Switzerland 1.66 million foreign-born residents (22.89% of population)

42 900 naturalizations

------>2.56%



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...lation_in_2005
http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/s...tz_fr_2009.pdf
http://www.parlament.ch/d/suche/seit...ch_id=20094277
OK Hoppy! Lets hear it
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  #307  
Old 21.12.2010, 20:35
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Re: Absolutely disgusted with American politics and the state of living here....

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OK Hoppy! Lets hear it
yes because you already know the answer. They may have to they have a major backlog to clear percentage wise.


yes because you already know the answer. They may have to they have a major backlog to clear percentage wise.

They can start with the Italian grandmas and grandpas, but I think they gave up cashed in their pensions packed up and went back to Italy,while they still could. I'm trying to find the statistics from the last 20 years later. Hang on, I'm sure I know an Andreas Stoffler

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Ironically, the figures released on Thursday reflect the difficulty longtime foreign residents have in becoming citizens in the country where they live and work.
More than a fifth of them were born in Switzerland, belonging to second- and in some cases third-generation immigrant families.
The level of citizenships through naturalization is considerably lower than in neighbouring European countries.
Last year, the number of foreigners acquiring Swiss citizenship actually dropped 2.1 percent to 43,400.
Immigrants are allowed to apply for citizenship after they have lived in Switzerland for 12 years but “it’s not an entitlement”, Dahinden said
Sept 2010


Basically it is playing with who is eligible.the system slowed down in the US after 9/11, but you still don't have to wait 12 years and pay through the nose.
I mean, come on, the country is built on the backs of immigrants- easier to ask what % of the country is pure blood Native American
http://www.swisster.ch/news/society/...tion-rise.html

Or ask if the ethnic mix of the Government reflects the population-calculate what percentage of ethnic Balkans, Turks live in Switzerland now and many ethnic Balkans or Turks there are in Parliament.

Have you heard about the new movement in the US by Latinos, it could be massive!

Last edited by hoppy; 21.12.2010 at 20:59.
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  #308  
Old 21.12.2010, 22:09
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Re: Absolutely disgusted with American politics and the state of living here....

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yes because you already know the answer. They may have to they have a major backlog to clear percentage wise.


yes because you already know the answer. They may have to they have a major backlog to clear percentage wise.

They can start with the Italian grandmas and grandpas, but I think they gave up cashed in their pensions packed up and went back to Italy,while they still could. I'm trying to find the statistics from the last 20 years later. Hang on, I'm sure I know an Andreas Stoffler

Sept 2010


Basically it is playing with who is eligible.the system slowed down in the US after 9/11, but you still don't have to wait 12 years and pay through the nose.
I mean, come on, the country is built on the backs of immigrants- easier to ask what % of the country is pure blood Native American
http://www.swisster.ch/news/society/...tion-rise.html

Or ask if the ethnic mix of the Government reflects the population-calculate what percentage of ethnic Balkans, Turks live in Switzerland now and many ethnic Balkans or Turks there are in Parliament.

Have you heard about the new movement in the US by Latinos, it could be massive!
In other words you don't have any facts to prove me wrong.
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  #309  
Old 21.12.2010, 23:23
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Re: Absolutely disgusted with American politics and the state of living here....

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Switzerland naturalizes a higher percentage of immigrant population than the US (2009 figures):


USA 38.5 million foreign-born residents (12.81% of population)
743,715 naturalizations

------>1.9%

Switzerland 1.66 million foreign-born residents (22.89% of population)

42 900 naturalizations

------>2.56%
You might want to include in the USA figure the number of little 'uns getting birthright citizenship, which in the USA is a pretty much absolute right (for now). For a developed country that's pretty damn generous; no "3rd generation guest workers" there. Sadly, my country, Australia, has been nowhere near that open for a long time. Not sure how many get it that way, but this article says its 60,000+ per year in Texas alone.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...s.2be9a7e.html

Not saying Switzerland isn't generous in other ways, but I think we're comparing apples and oranges here....
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  #310  
Old 22.12.2010, 00:05
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Re: Absolutely disgusted with American politics and the state of living here....

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no "3rd generation guest workers" there
In Switzerland teenage years count twice. That means someone resident from age 14 to 20 is eligable for naturalization. So these "3rd generation guest workers" (if they really do exist) are not naturalized by their own choice (compulsary military service in Switzerland).
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  #311  
Old 22.12.2010, 01:28
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Re: Absolutely disgusted with American politics and the state of living here....

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Basically it is playing with who is eligible.the system slowed down in the US after 9/11, but you still don't have to wait 12 years and pay through the nose.
I mean, come on, the country is built on the backs of immigrants- easier to ask what % of the country is pure blood Native American
http://www.swisster.ch/news/society/...tion-rise.html

!
My kid is in the USA 15 years already ,I have to ask him what it cost him up to now.I let you know
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  #312  
Old 22.12.2010, 01:50
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Re: Absolutely disgusted with American politics and the state of living here....

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In other words you don't have any facts to prove me wrong.
For s start you have to compare like with like. you can't take the number of foreign born nationals born on both countries for 2005 and then take the number of those granted citizenship for 2009.

A lot can change in that population between 2005- 2010. I have those figures In 2009

of 1.67 million Swiss foreign born nationals 42,900 were granted citizenship which will obviously give you less than the 2.56% you quoted.

Whereas apart form that the number of US foreign born immigrants actually declined in 2009 to just under 38 million.

Still the number of foreign nationals for 2009% wise would be very slightly higher in Switzerland for 2009. (when, like me, you compare keep the year constant when comparing statistics and not, as you did, give different years to make it look better)

However this is not the end of the story. the recent increase in allowing nationality to foreign born citizens has come about because Switzerland, was forced to up the numbers of citizenships granted in line with other European countries.
They were accused of the same with asylum seekers.

In response

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The yearly rate of naturalization has quintupled over the 1990s and 2000s, from roughly 9,000 to 45,000 naturalizations per year. Relative to the population of resident foreigners, this amounts to an increase from 8‰ in 1990 to 27‰ in 2007, or relative to the number of Swiss citizens from 1.6‰ in 1990 to 7.3‰ in 2007.[2]
As you can see this is a rather recent development to try to catch up and, Wowawiwa this major push to right the wrong of years, still only brings them marginally above the US citizenship figures percentage wise
I am guessing that before 1990 the percentage was even lower and that most probably if the SVP get their way the percentage could revert to the 8% or even lower.

What you really need to look at is the trend over the last say 20 years.

For instance:
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The total number of people who have become Swiss from 1983-2009 is 605,340. You can plot this and see how it has changed from year to year. now I have to find the American figures for the same time and compare the two.
But I think that I already know the answer- we all do. Like I said before, look at the cultural mix of the US compared to Switzerland. the us is a land built on immigration.This policy continues today, if you are born in the US you are automatically American. Anyway, I have Cumberland sauce to make.
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  #313  
Old 22.12.2010, 02:12
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Re: Absolutely disgusted with American politics and the state of living here....

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My kid is in the USA 15 years already ,I have to ask him what it cost him up to now.I let you know
Then Summat's up,

Lots of people choose not to apply for citizenship, they just hang on to the green card, possible because of tax purposes, but the US encourages them to apply.
Which is also another factor that might skew statistics. I have several friends who don't want the passport- just the green card.
You should apply for citizenship 4 years after you get your Green Card.
You need about $2-4K for lawyers fees (if you are not given free help) and about $1500 for all the other costs.So about $5000 total


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  1. Fun Fact
  2. As of October 2001, the USCIS reported that the complete citizenship application process ranges, on average, between 6 and 9 months.
http://www.ehow.com/facts_5017724_lo...plication.html
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  #314  
Old 22.12.2010, 03:43
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Re: Absolutely disgusted with American politics and the state of living here....

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For s start you have to compare like with like.
That's an interesting concept.
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  #315  
Old 22.12.2010, 06:15
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Re: Absolutely disgusted with American politics and the state of living here....

Lighten up, people, it's holiday time...don't be so calvinist.

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a cool glass of Captain Morgan's rum with cola.
Ah, yes. That's a girl.

I would like some rum and coke...Instead, I am about to make an angel cake for our work holiday reunion. What a douche time to bake now..


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Well, there is the guy who rollerblades in shorts (or is it a speedo?) year round in Zurich....
You guys have some serious weirdos back in Swiss German part..
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Old 22.12.2010, 06:28
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Re: Absolutely disgusted with American politics and the state of living here....

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Lots of people choose not to apply for citizenship, they just hang on to the green card, possible because of tax purposes,
If you're going to start inventing possible reasons, you should probably understand that green card holders have the same tax obligations as US citizens, including the requirement to pay taxes while living abroad.

Anyway, back to work now.
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  #317  
Old 22.12.2010, 16:56
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Re: Absolutely disgusted with American politics and the state of living here....

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I have those figures In 2009

of 1.67 million Swiss foreign born nationals 42,900 were granted citizenship which will obviously give you less than the 2.56% you quoted.
42'900 was preliminary data, actually it's 44'948 for 2009

http://www.bfm.admin.ch/content/dam/...gen-2009-d.pdf

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However this is not the end of the story. the recent increase in allowing nationality to foreign born citizens has come about because Switzerland, was forced to up the numbers of citizenships granted in line with other European countries.
They were accused of the same with asylum seekers.
Switzerland was forced by whom?

Overview of naturalizations in european countries including Switzerland 1990-2008

http://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/portal/d...ment.88539.xls

I cannot really follow this claim that Switzerland supposedly has naturalized fewer people than other countries. Maybe relative to foreign population which is very high in Switzerland with lots of international companies and immigrants that don't necessarily want to become Swiss. Relative to total population the figures are much higher than countries like Denmark, Norway, Germany or pretty much any country with exception to the Netherlands and Sweden.


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As you can see this is a rather recent development to try to catch up
It's not a recent development. The figures have risen constantly in the last 20 years.

http://www.hwwi.org/fileadmin/hwwi/P...-grafik-gr.jpg


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But I think that I already know the answer- we all do. Like I said before, look at the cultural mix of the US compared to Switzerland. the us is a land built on immigration.This policy continues today, if you are born in the US you are automatically American. Anyway, I have Cumberland sauce to make.
The US perception of immigration includes the last 500 years and people who didn't really immigrate (african americans).

Fact is Switzerland has a much higher percentage of immigrant population (=foreign born residents) than the US.
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Old 22.12.2010, 17:19
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Re: Absolutely disgusted with American politics and the state of living here....

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If you're going to start inventing possible reasons, you should probably understand that green card holders have the same tax obligations as US citizens, including the requirement to pay taxes while living abroad.

Anyway, back to work now.
There are a lot of Green Card holders don't live in the US, I know many, they would come to the US every year or two for a couple of weeks and renew it. They didn't want citizenship just to be able to come and go as they pleased and filling in the tax forms they probably didn't pay much. Now that has changed so a lot of people I know who live abroad more than 6 months a year are considered to have abandoned their residency. I am pretty sure that green card holders were not screened as much as US citizens when it comes to earning or assets abroad. A Green card holder is also not obliged to bear arms for his country in time of war. the only disadvantage that I found with a Green Card is that you are not entitled to vote in all elections, children don't have the same entitlement to some scholarships, and you can get kicked out if you commit a crime.
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Old 22.12.2010, 17:35
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Re: Absolutely disgusted with American politics and the state of living here....

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You guys have some serious weirdos back in Swiss German part..
Good advice-OK I'l lighten up. In Winterthur there used to be a very flamboyant transvestite- I think he was a lawyer, a man who sued to dress up in different suits as a sailor etc. and another man who was extremely thin dressed in green leggings with a hat full of feathers and rode a bike covered in greenery. I always looked forward to seeing them. Talking about rum I just came back from the Caribbean would love to move there, maybe the OP should consider it!
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Old 22.12.2010, 17:36
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Re: Absolutely disgusted with American politics and the state of living here....

M Radar,
you must get it down on a piece of paper to what you're looking for in a potential country. What are your expectations? better life quality? higher income? more freedom??

Switzerland isn't utopia; it has a fair share of xenophobia, which in my opinion is a normal consequence of an economic downturn coupled with increased immigration from neighbouring EU countries.
Before we blame the Swiss, we must remember that this country isn't a 'settler' country as is Australia, US, Canada, and New Zealand i.e the new world.
It has its 'native' population which is a majority and not a minority as is the case in the aforementioned places.

First off,
if you decide on pursuing a better life in Swiss, u must start off with finding a way to earn the right to reside here i.e residence permit or to secure a job; one can cover for the other.

Secondly, this country is very expensive compared with NJ.

Thirdly, finding a job can be hapless; it is a smaller nation, and can only offer so many opportunities.

I left the US not because of economic reasons, but rather for family ties. I would like to go back there and enjoy my life; it is a nice place after all, it is especially not over-priced.

OZ/NZ would be your best bet, same language, closely related, similar culture etc
Is Canada on your mind? it is hella of a cold place! I grew up on the US/Canuck border and don't mind Canada at all!
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