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  #121  
Old 18.12.2010, 23:43
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Re: Absolutely disgusted with American politics and the state of living here....

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okay, my last try
here we got two totally different identities:

US self-conception = bigness, immigration, freedom, small state, different races and cultures, individualism
(well, it looks like things are gonna change right now)

Swiss self-conception = smallness, separation from abroad, strong state, regulation, social welfare, national consciousness in common culture, neutrality and independence
- Smallness ? .. yes
- Separation from abroad ? You mean with almost everybody having relatives abroad ? With almost everybody watching non-Swiss TV as soon as the News are over ?
- strong state ? depends on comparison. If compared with France or Italy or Germany (the relevant neighbours) simply NOT true
- regulations ? Yes, sure. Often a nuisance, but not always
- social welfare ? Yes, and this is a good thing
- neutrality and independence ? Yes, why not ?
- common culture ? The point exactly is that there is no common culture, but a common will NOT to be German or French or Italian
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  #122  
Old 18.12.2010, 23:56
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Re: Absolutely disgusted with American politics and the state of living here....

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- Separation from abroad ? You mean with almost everybody having relatives abroad ? With almost everybody watching non-Swiss TV as soon as the News are over ?
- common culture ? The point exactly is that there is no common culture, but a common will NOT to be German or French or Italian
Yes, it sounds confusing.
The Swiss speak different languages but they have ONE common cultural good: Most of them prefer to life in this small independant Alpine state - even with communication problems - than beeing tied to Germany, France or Italy (or even the EU, NATO and EURO, go figure). And most of the negative feelings go back in history...
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  #123  
Old 19.12.2010, 03:51
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Re: Absolutely disgusted with American politics and the state of living here....

If this was to become law, OP and family would likely need to pass a language test before coming over.
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  #124  
Old 19.12.2010, 05:06
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Re: Absolutely disgusted with American politics and the state of living here....

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-
"Expected to" is the word. Participation in elections and votings usually varies between 30% and 60%. I however do not see any reason why there should be a formal ceremony when somebody becomes a Swiss citizen.


- no, the neighbours could not decide about citizenship applications
- a heavy majority of Swiss people live in "communes" of more than 10'000 inhabitants and in these "cities" it was not the electorate who decided but relevant authorities
- women are still trying to catch up ? Not yet up but already having the majority in the federal government ?
- Appenzell is special and both Appenzell are proud of being special But in general, people are not divided along denominational borders. It is noteworthy that very popular longterm city president of Luzern was a Protestant and that longterm highly popular Zurich city-president Josef Estermann was a Catholic
As far as I know the Stammtisch is a table for locals are friends of the restauranteur. The seats may have name plates, generally they are occupied by the chief business or influential men of the village. Unless invited you will not be allowed to sit at the stammtisch, it is generally where the village busness gets done.

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Belonging to the local Stammtisch used to carry status in German towns, where the mayor or some other local leader would often hold court in a smoke-filled pub. They were invitation-only, intensely territorial, and strictly male -- visible and public inner circles where business connections and friendships were secured.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/...408482,00.html

Perhaps in some parts of Switzerland the purpose of the table has been relaxed.

I was born Swiss, I will save you what happened when my husband became Swiss- don't want to 'diss' anyone.

A friend who had been born in Siwtzerland gone to school with and been an active well-liked, participating member of a village received some negative votes by secret ballot from other villagers when he applied for citizenship.
he never found out who had voted against him.
2008
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In Switzerland, people wanting to be Swiss must apply through their local community. In many towns and villages, the final hurdle to citizenship is often the approval of local residents at a town hall meeting, or, in the past, by secret ballot.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7427865.stm

Actually it was Pwho provided the figures for the disparity in wealth in Switzerland being higher in in Switzerland than the US, in another thread in answer to a post where I suspected it.
However things are changing in the US definitely the gap is growing, as it is everywhere.
I already stated I am an NPR fan not Fox news.

I always have to be careful to look at Swiss statistics to ascertain whether the statistics ( such as for literacy) are for all people living in Switzerland or those with Swiss nationality.
Wikipedia states that illiteracy in Switzerland is very low, however if you look at high document literacy rates, Switzerland is 13th US is 9th

http://www.vexen.co.uk/countries/best.html

Now, there are many peopl in Switzerland who considered it their home, but because of the stringent citizenship process are dissuaded from becoming Swiss, even if they have lived their most their lives, contribute, pay taxes etc. Amongst them:

Quote:
Brigitte Aschwanden, head of the Reading and Writing Federation of German-speaking Switzerland, says around 435,000 of those with low literacy skills are from immigrant families. The other 365,000 are Swiss.

"Among those from an immigrant background there are some who are completely illiterate, who have never learned to read and write because they didn't go to school. But the Swiss have all gone to school and none of them are completely illiterate," she told swissinfo.ch.

Of the latter group many will never have learned to read and write properly, whereas others will have lost the ability through lack of practice. In adulthood this can make it harder to integrate into social or professional life.
http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/Home/Arc...ml?cid=7464572

So they don't figure in the Swiss literacy statistics and perhaps many other areas where statistics for Switzerland are stated.

When it comes to embedded press, chapter 15 of Direct Democracy by Fossedal has an interesting discussion of the press- visible tendency to be less confrontational.
http://books.google.com/books?id=t48...page&q&f=false

I do not know of one Swiss paper that openly carries the baton against Swiss racist attitudes, the majority support the Swiss against the claims of racism from the UN. even though this was of course a major issue. In the US some of the most popular programs are those that poke holes in America.
I was careful about criticizing anything Swiss while in Switzerland.
Here in the US I find that the Americans I know are too busy criticizing themselves as a nation,they have some romantic notion that everything is better in Europe. Two have just moved!

Actually there is a lot that I admire about the Amish, they live in harmony with nature, have a very low carbon-footprint, they have stamina, guts are pacifists and can be very forgiving.

Anyway, I should just return to not unnecessarily upsetting the Swiss. I should save it for my American friends they are so hypercritical.

There are many excellent reason to stay in Switzerland, imagine my friend's faces when I tell them that if you are made redundant you used to be able to claim 80% of your wages for 2 years, then you will be most likely found a position. Our Swiss insurance (health, dental, car, house) was more expensive in CH than the US, the service was better in some ways worse in others.

Last edited by hoppy; 19.12.2010 at 05:13. Reason: Addition.
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  #125  
Old 19.12.2010, 05:22
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Re: Absolutely disgusted with American politics and the state of living here....

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If this was to become law, OP and family would likely need to pass a language test before coming over.
When I told my husband about this thread he said don't get involved, unless you want severe backlash, anyway you are wasting you time, how do they hope to get a visa- don't they know?

But I just ploughed right in regardless and opened a can of worms
It's funny, I moved to Switzerland at the age of 28 with a young child in tow, now my son is approaching the same age, I couldn't imagine him coping with a similar situation.
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  #126  
Old 19.12.2010, 10:39
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Re: Absolutely disgusted with American politics and the state of living here....

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I am a 28 year old married man with a 2 year old son and aspirations of at least one more child. I currently stay at home with my son and my wife works as a behavioral psychologist for a group home for disabled adults incapable of leading regular lives due to limited mental capabilities. I am a trained electrician with a 4 year apprenticeship under my belt.

I am seriously considering leaving this wonderful country. Are things any better in Switzerland I guess would be my main question. I have been researching the laws and daily life there and I have read very good and very bad things.

I need to get my son out of here. I was hoping to get some advise on the subject from an American born individual currently living the "Swiss Dream".
Here, some things that may explain this side of the pond a little better.

Ten reasons to leave Switzerland for the US

Backwards Switzerland
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  #127  
Old 19.12.2010, 11:20
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Re: Absolutely disgusted with American politics and the state of living here....

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I am a 28 year old married man with a 2 year old son and aspirations of at least one more child. I currently stay at home with my son and my wife works as a behavioral psychologist for a group home for disabled adults incapable of leading regular lives due to limited mental capabilities. I am a trained electrician with a 4 year apprenticeship under my belt.

I am seriously considering leaving this wonderful country. Are things any better in Switzerland I guess would be my main question. I have been researching the laws and daily life there and I have read very good and very bad things.

I need to get my son out of here. I was hoping to get some advise on the subject from an American born individual currently living the "Swiss Dream".

OP, how bad does domestic politics have to get for you to consider leaving the country? I suspect you have concerns beyond the politics of the country. As you and I know, people can very well live their lives without any concern for politics. They simply need to turn off the TV.

But I suspect you have graver concerns beyond politics. Do you? If so, what is it? Is it a sense of an impending economic doom? Social unrest? Or a nascent totalitarian police state?
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  #128  
Old 19.12.2010, 12:43
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Re: Absolutely disgusted with American politics and the state of living here....

Listen, OP. Moving isn't going to change anything.

When I left the US in 2006, I was sick of Bush, convinced that the US was going to hell in a hand basket and depressed at the political state of affairs. It felt like life was doomed and my outlook was gloomy.

So I moved to Switzerland thinking it would fix everything...

What happened? I was unhappy, I was convinced that Switzerland was going to hell in a hand basket. The political state of affairs worldwide was depressing. I felt like life was doomed and my outlook was gloomy.

Wherever you go, you take all of your emotional baggage with you! And it really taints your view of things.

Fast forward a few years.

Just this last summer, after three years back in the US, I moved back to Switzerland because my husband really wanted to live abroad again. I was perfectly happy in the US and had practically no desire to leave! I love everything about my home city, Portland. I had a great social life there, we lived in a fabulous neighborhood. My job wasn't perfect, but it was a good position. I felt optimistic about the political situation despite all of the economic turmoil because it was a huge victory to get Obama in the White House and change is very slow to happen, but it does eventually come around. I felt like the world was beautiful and wonderful and that life was a great gift.

Now I'm here and I'm perfectly happy and have no desire to leave Switzerland. I still love the US, it will always be my home. I have no idea how long we'll stay here, but we are having a great time. Switzerland is a beautiful, wonderful country. Healthcare is stellar, quality of life is top notch. The US is equally wonderful. People love doom and gloom and thoroughly enjoy talking about how the US is crumbling into wreckage, but it just isn't true! Change is taking place and change is difficult and SLOW, but the US is still filled with innovative, driven people and it will be just fine. Life is beautiful.

Maybe you think I'm crazy. But as far as I can tell from my experiences, Anaïs Nin was right: "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."

So rather than focus on what's wrong around you, focus on what's right inside you. Because I'm sure there is plenty!
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  #129  
Old 19.12.2010, 13:00
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Re: Absolutely disgusted with American politics and the state of living here....

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As far as I know the Stammtisch is a table for locals are friends of the restauranteur. The seats may have name plates, generally they are occupied by the chief business or influential men of the village. Unless invited you will not be allowed to sit at the stammtisch, it is generally where the village busness gets done.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...408482,00.html

Perhaps in some parts of Switzerland the purpose of the table has been relaxed.

- Yes of course, the Stammtisch traditionally is the table for well-established locals and friends of the restaurateur. And in traditional places, seats have name-plates of influential persons on them. "Village business" yes and no, but it for sure is the place where things are talked through.
- In most parts of Switzerland, the tradition and purpose of the Stammtisch has at least been relaxed and in many cases been lost. Not least as many of those Dorfbeizen and Quartierbeizen have been converted into Italian or Chinese restaurants or at worst into McDonald's.
- In many places there is no Stammtisch around but about two or three places with a similar function
- What I in recent years found interesting that I often, even when only taking a beer or a glass of wine, was invited by the Restaurateur to come over to the Stammtisch. It is commercial as an empty Stammtisch looks as if the place was lacking success. And if you get into an animated discussion with other people, the Restaurateur out of experience knowns that such people might attract other passers-by to come in

Now back to the "Stammtisch-Sterben". Until the late 60ies, early 70ies, thousands of Dorfbeizen and Quartierbeizen did HAVE a Stammtisch, but a very considerable part of them, primarily in urban, but even in rural areas were gone in the late 90ies. Look at neighbouring countries like Germany, Austria and also Italy, where the development has been very similar. It is a tiny bit different in France but not very much so, and it is amazingly similar in the Romandie.
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  #130  
Old 19.12.2010, 13:25
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Re: Absolutely disgusted with American politics and the state of living here....

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When it comes to embedded press, chapter 15 of Direct Democracy by Fossedal has an interesting discussion of the press- visible tendency to be less confrontational.
http://books.google.com/books?id=t48...page&q&f=false

I do not know of one Swiss paper that openly carries the baton against Swiss racist attitudes, the majority support the Swiss against the claims of racism from the UN. even though this was of course a major issue. In the US some of the most popular programs are those that poke holes in America.
.
- While racism of course IS an existing problem, it is not an overwhelming one, but clearly a minor one. However, Tages Anzeiger and even rightwing NZZ and Luzerner Zeitung and many others are very critical about xenophobia and prejudice. And even more harsh is most of Swiss TV.
- That according to the U.N., people of former Yugoslavia (Yugos ) are a separate race did not give those UN claims particular credibility . I in general outright refuse much of the prejudice so often placed against the "ex-Yugos", but to portray them as "other race" is utter rubbish.
- No, those UN claims were NOT a "major issue", not at all. In Zurich, most popular TV programs were such "poking holes" in Zurich.
- Reality in the USA rather is that you when visiting the praiseworthy MLK Memorial in Atlanta, had to realize that only few non-black visitors were around. I spoke about this with a lady at the cashiers-desk of their shop, and she told me "look, you have to be more patient with them, things will look very much different in 20 or 30 years time". And I have seen enough of real racism among relatives in the states of Texas, Louisiana and Mississippi. An aunt in Marshall/TX who was shocked when I repeatedly parked my rental-car near the place where some black workers worked on the road and about her daughter and me having some humourous chats with the great chaps ! A nephew from Mississippi who asked me whether we also had problems "with those blacks" over the pond ! A bit subdued when I told him that the issue rather was whether "those blacks" possibly had problems with us on the non-black side. Sure, just as in Switzerland with the Cantons, differences between the States in the USA are very relevant. In regard to prejudice, I might encourage you to have a close look at such things between North Italians and South Italians, between North Moroccans and South Moroccans, between mainland-Algerian whites and the almost black Algerian Saharouwis, or even worse between mainland-Egyptians and Nubians. I think that mankind will need a lot of time to overcome such things
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  #131  
Old 19.12.2010, 13:28
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Re: Absolutely disgusted with American politics and the state of living here....

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When I told my husband about this thread he said don't get involved, unless you want severe backlash, anyway you are wasting you time, how do they hope to get a visa- don't they know?

But I just ploughed right in regardless and opened a can of worms
It's funny, I moved to Switzerland at the age of 28 with a young child in tow, now my son is approaching the same age, I couldn't imagine him coping with a similar situation.
A) tell your husband to relax, it is not half as wild as he possibly feared !
B) stop underestimating your son. I don't know your son, but regard your idea that we would not cope as a foregone conclusion
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  #132  
Old 19.12.2010, 13:38
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Re: Absolutely disgusted with American politics and the state of living here....

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Here, some things that may explain this side of the pond a little better.

Ten reasons to leave Switzerland for the US

Backwards Switzerland
Let's put it a bit clearer. The number of Swiss who between 1800 and now emigrated to the USA is about 100 times (or more) larger than the number of US Americans who emigrated to Switzerland. I personally had an emigration to the USA as a possible option under consideration more than once. Half the wider family of my mother emigrated to the USA (Louisiana and Texas) between 1900 and 1912. My Grand-grand-father on the mother-side lived in the USA (mainly NY, Pennsylvania, Ohio + Indiana -- railways between New York and Chicago ! ) between the 1860ies and about 1880, and had US citizenship. He then, upon return to CH gave birth to my grandfather who was forced fairly early to learn English. And on the encouragement of him, my mother started learning English relatively early as well, and I joined our "family tradition".

So that "the normal thing" is Swiss people emigrating to the USA, while US people emigrating to Switzerland is to me still an "exotic proposition"
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  #133  
Old 19.12.2010, 18:51
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OP's wife, again

Some of you have brought up economic disparity, racism, etc. These are all issues that I can work through and live with, and teach my children how I wish to teach them.

My concern is the small number of rich men buying policy that serves their pockets, and the large companies that run things to the detriment of our health. I assume it is like that everywhere, so no sense in uprooting, but was just curious if I was wrong; if there may be some place where laws are truly made to protect citizens, not protect CEO's bank accounts.
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  #134  
Old 19.12.2010, 18:52
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Re: Absolutely disgusted with American politics and the state of living here....

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As far as I know the Stammtisch is a table for locals are friends of the restauranteur.
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- Yes of course, the Stammtisch traditionally is the table for well-established locals and friends of the restaurateur.
This happens everywhere in "small town pick your country", even in the US. Look at the clubs that run the local politics, the Kawaniz, Lions, or the village juntas in Spain & Portugal, the friends of the mayor/sheriff, etc.

It's worse at the top. Do you really think anyone can grow up to be president? To say this only happens in Switzerland is rather naive. It just happens to be out on the table (forgive the pun). Politics is about influencing people. Those who can't won't make it far in politics.

And as was said before, voting is for the citizens of the nation. Who should vote in Swiss politics? The Russians? The Greeks?


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I always have to be careful to look at Swiss statistics to ascertain whether the statistics ( such as for literacy) are for all people living in Switzerland or those with Swiss nationality.
Wikipedia states that illiteracy in Switzerland is very low, however if you look at high document literacy rates, Switzerland is 13th US is 9th

http://www.vexen.co.uk/countries/best.html
I find it a bit strange that you would provide this website to illustrate how much better the US is in "high document literacy" when it shows just how better Switzerland comes out in other aspects such as
Life expectancy CH 4th, US 29th & Human development CH5, US8 -

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I do not know of one Swiss paper that openly carries the baton against Swiss racist attitudes, the majority support the Swiss against the claims of racism from the UN. even though this was of course a major issue.
Maybe you should read more Swiss press. The Romandie press had plenty of articles against the recent expulsion of foreign criminals vote.

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I was careful about criticizing anything Swiss while in Switzerland.
Here in the US I find that the Americans I know are too busy criticizing themselves as a nation,they have some romantic notion that everything is better in Europe. Two have just moved!
Just as you need take a look at Switzerland beyond the Appenzeller perspective, perhaps you also need to get out of your "NPR zone of protection". There are plenty of places in the US were criticizing the US is a no go zone. The phrase "if they don't like it they can leave" is a well used one for locals and foreigners alike.

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Actually there is a lot that I admire about the Amish, they live in harmony with nature, have a very low carbon-footprint, they have stamina, guts are pacifists and can be very forgiving.
Why are the Amish even in this thread exactly? Is the OP looking to join a religious community? If so I suggest he become a Shaker. Their numbers are dwindling.


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I was born Swiss, I will save you what happened when my husband became Swiss- don't want to 'diss' anyone.
It's not about "dissing" anyone. It's about getting a bit of perspective.

I honestly don't know the point of this back & forth discussion on which is better the US or Switzerland. Just as there are different "USs" there are different "Switzerlands" with good and bad in each of them. Not to mention the global perspective on the whole thing. I see no one is talking about moving to Ghana. I wonder why?

Getting back on topic:

Personally, I would suggest the OP does move to another country with the plan to stay from 6 months to 2 years. Then decided if he wants to go back or move on or whatever. It is a wonderful experience living away from you home country. It's so good for children too.

My other suggestion would be that the OP (and his wife) train in IT stuff. Perhaps OP could work in support while OPs wife can work on/start/develop/run some kind of website related to her field.
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Old 19.12.2010, 18:55
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Re: Absolutely disgusted with American politics and the state of living here....

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- While racism of course IS an existing problem, it is not an overwhelming one, but clearly a minor one. However, Tages Anzeiger and even rightwing NZZ and Luzerner Zeitung and many others are very critical about xenophobia and prejudice. And even more harsh is most of Swiss TV.
- That according to the U.N., people of former Yugoslavia (Yugos ) are a separate race did not give those UN claims particular credibility . I in general outright refuse much of the prejudice so often placed against the "ex-Yugos", but to portray them as "other race" is utter rubbish.
- No, those UN claims were NOT a "major issue", not at all. In Zurich, most popular TV programs were such "poking holes" in Zurich.
- Reality in the USA rather is that you when visiting the praiseworthy MLK Memorial in Atlanta, had to realize that only few non-black visitors were around. I spoke about this with a lady at the cashiers-desk of their shop, and she told me "look, you have to be more patient with them, things will look very much different in 20 or 30 years time". And I have seen enough of real racism among relatives in the states of Texas, Louisiana and Mississippi. An aunt in Marshall/TX who was shocked when I repeatedly parked my rental-car near the place where some black workers worked on the road and about her daughter and me having some humourous chats with the great chaps ! A nephew from Mississippi who asked me whether we also had problems "with those blacks" over the pond ! A bit subdued when I told him that the issue rather was whether "those blacks" possibly had problems with us on the non-black side. Sure, just as in Switzerland with the Cantons, differences between the States in the USA are very relevant. In regard to prejudice, I might encourage you to have a close look at such things between North Italians and South Italians, between North Moroccans and South Moroccans, between mainland-Algerian whites and the almost black Algerian Saharouwis, or even worse between mainland-Egyptians and Nubians. I think that mankind will need a lot of time to overcome such things
Yes, I have been to the southern states, did the MLK 20 years ago, went hiking the Appalacian Trail and to hire a raft in the Smokies with my Iranian looking son. Previously we had seen the tanks heading for the coast and shipment to Iraq for the Gulf War. The guys hiring the raft out, in the middle of nowhere got talking about the war, I had echoes of Duelliing Banjos in my head. I had the same feeling in parts of Switzerland.
I just met a woman (who had a great W. Virginia accent) from the coal mining belt, she admitted she was racist and had only a 3rd grade education, but wanted to talk and know about other cultures. Great woman, terrible life,very intelligent, learning what she called $20 dollar words, this was the first time she had been more than 50 miles from her home.

The difference between Switzerland and the US is that the majority of Swiss (except those who fall through the cracks like Mr.Switzerland) are literate and educated,the Swiss cannot claim ignorance. Racism is a part of protectionism, where racism is institutionalized. Also Switzerland is small, it isn't as if the Swiss live in the wilderness and don't have the opportunity to meet and mix with other cultures on a regular basis. In the US the law will protect against racism. The problem is making sure that all know their rights. Many US law schools offer free advice services, in the UK there is the Citizens Advice Bureau, where is the free legal advice in Switzerland to enable people to simply walk off the street and receive accurate impartial advice about their rights?- I never found it.
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Old 19.12.2010, 19:09
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Re: OP's wife, again

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My concern is the small number of rich men buying policy that serves their pockets, and the large companies that run things to the detriment of our health. I assume it is like that everywhere, so no sense in uprooting, but was just curious if I was wrong; if there may be some place where laws are truly made to protect citizens, not protect CEO's bank accounts.
I'm not so sure Switzerland is totally different on this account. Two differences:

1) There is more disclosure and discussion of such things in the US than in Switzerland. So it may appear there are more problems in the US, while such things are merely not discussed in Switzerland.

2) Big business in Switzerland is more concerned with the international market than the domestic scene. So they may care less about the local issues, as long as the country provides them a haven to operate internationally. The US, on the other hand, is a formidable market. So you will see the capitalists pigs feeding off of the country itself.

Last edited by Phos; 19.12.2010 at 19:59.
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  #137  
Old 19.12.2010, 22:03
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Re: Absolutely disgusted with American politics and the state of living here....

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The difference between Switzerland and the US is that...

Switzerland is 2.5% of the US population and the size of about two New Jerseys (4% of the size?).
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  #138  
Old 19.12.2010, 22:10
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Re: Absolutely disgusted with American politics and the state of living here....

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Yes, I have been to the southern states, did the MLK 20 years ago, went hiking the Appalacian Trail and to hire a raft in the Smokies with my Iranian looking son. Previously we had seen the tanks heading for the coast and shipment to Iraq for the Gulf War. The guys hiring the raft out, in the middle of nowhere got talking about the war, I had echoes of Duelliing Banjos in my head. I had the same feeling in parts of Switzerland.
I just met a woman (who had a great W. Virginia accent) from the coal mining belt, she admitted she was racist and had only a 3rd grade education, but wanted to talk and know about other cultures. Great woman, terrible life,very intelligent, learning what she called $20 dollar words, this was the first time she had been more than 50 miles from her home.

The difference between Switzerland and the US is that the majority of Swiss (except those who fall through the cracks like Mr.Switzerland) are literate and educated,the Swiss cannot claim ignorance. Racism is a part of protectionism, where racism is institutionalized. Also Switzerland is small, it isn't as if the Swiss live in the wilderness and don't have the opportunity to meet and mix with other cultures on a regular basis. In the US the law will protect against racism. The problem is making sure that all know their rights. Many US law schools offer free advice services, in the UK there is the Citizens Advice Bureau, where is the free legal advice in Switzerland to enable people to simply walk off the street and receive accurate impartial advice about their rights?- I never found it.
- Racism is NOT institutionalized in Switzerland but banned by the federal constitution and prohibited by a number of laws
- Many Swiss DO meet and mix with other cultures
- In Switzerland, as stated above, the law protects against raciscm, including racist insulting etc
- In Switzerland there are many free legal advice offices and many organisations (many ethnic organisations among them) offering free legal advice. They are fairly easy to find
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Old 19.12.2010, 22:15
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Re: OP's wife, again

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I'm not so sure Switzerland is totally different on this account. Two differences:

1) There is more disclosure and discussion of such things in the US than in Switzerland. So it may appear there are more problems in the US, while such things are merely not discussed in Switzerland.

2) Big business in Switzerland is more concerned with the international market than the domestic scene. So they may care less about the local issues, as long as the country provides them a haven to operate internationally. The US, on the other hand, is a formidable market. So you will see the capitalists pigs feeding off of the country itself.
1) But such things are discussed in Switzerland all the time, and the problem is well known. Just look into the newspapers.
2) A heavy part of the Swiss economy, like the export industry and the inbound tourism is international, and this is what Switzerland lives of. The government does not provide a heaven but the economy gives the governments a basis to operate.
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Old 19.12.2010, 22:18
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Re: Absolutely disgusted with American politics and the state of living here....

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- Racism is NOT institutionalized in Switzerland but banned by the federal constitution and prohibited by a number of laws
- In Switzerland, as stated above, the law protects against raciscm, including racist insulting etc
..thus the little cream filled chocolate pastries still carry the derogatory name in Switzerland, right?
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