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  #141  
Old 19.12.2010, 23:43
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Re: Absolutely disgusted with American politics and the state of living here....

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As far as I know the Stammtisch is a table for locals are friends of the restauranteur. The seats may have name plates, generally they are occupied by the chief business or influential men of the village. Unless invited you will not be allowed to sit at the stammtisch, it is generally where the village busness gets done.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...408482,00.html

Perhaps in some parts of Switzerland the purpose of the table has been relaxed.

I was born Swiss, I will save you what happened when my husband became Swiss- don't want to 'diss' anyone.

A friend who had been born in Siwtzerland gone to school with and been an active well-liked, participating member of a village received some negative votes by secret ballot from other villagers when he applied for citizenship.
he never found out who had voted against him.
2008
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7427865.stm

Actually it was Pwho provided the figures for the disparity in wealth in Switzerland being higher in in Switzerland than the US, in another thread in answer to a post where I suspected it.
However things are changing in the US definitely the gap is growing, as it is everywhere.
I already stated I am an NPR fan not Fox news.

I always have to be careful to look at Swiss statistics to ascertain whether the statistics ( such as for literacy) are for all people living in Switzerland or those with Swiss nationality.
Wikipedia states that illiteracy in Switzerland is very low, however if you look at high document literacy rates, Switzerland is 13th US is 9th

http://www.vexen.co.uk/countries/best.html

Now, there are many peopl in Switzerland who considered it their home, but because of the stringent citizenship process are dissuaded from becoming Swiss, even if they have lived their most their lives, contribute, pay taxes etc. Amongst them:

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/Home/Arc...ml?cid=7464572

So they don't figure in the Swiss literacy statistics and perhaps many other areas where statistics for Switzerland are stated.

When it comes to embedded press, chapter 15 of Direct Democracy by Fossedal has an interesting discussion of the press- visible tendency to be less confrontational.
http://books.google.com/books?id=t48...page&q&f=false

I do not know of one Swiss paper that openly carries the baton against Swiss racist attitudes, the majority support the Swiss against the claims of racism from the UN. even though this was of course a major issue. In the US some of the most popular programs are those that poke holes in America.
I was careful about criticizing anything Swiss while in Switzerland.
Here in the US I find that the Americans I know are too busy criticizing themselves as a nation,they have some romantic notion that everything is better in Europe. Two have just moved!

Actually there is a lot that I admire about the Amish, they live in harmony with nature, have a very low carbon-footprint, they have stamina, guts are pacifists and can be very forgiving.

Anyway, I should just return to not unnecessarily upsetting the Swiss. I should save it for my American friends they are so hypercritical.

There are many excellent reason to stay in Switzerland, imagine my friend's faces when I tell them that if you are made redundant you used to be able to claim 80% of your wages for 2 years, then you will be most likely found a position. Our Swiss insurance (health, dental, car, house) was more expensive in CH than the US, the service was better in some ways worse in others.
Yes yes hoppy we know Senica NY is very very nice . But go visit North Dakota ,Georgia EtcEtc and start looking at racism there,and you will learn different
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  #142  
Old 19.12.2010, 23:45
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Re: Absolutely disgusted with American politics and the state of living here....

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..thus the little cream filled chocolate pastries still carry the derogatory name in Switzerland, right?
Moore Choepf I love theme
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  #143  
Old 19.12.2010, 23:50
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Re: OP's wife, again

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Some of you have brought up economic disparity, racism, etc. These are all issues that I can work through and live with, and teach my children how I wish to teach them.

My concern is the small number of rich men buying policy that serves their pockets, and the large companies that run things to the detriment of our health. I assume it is like that everywhere, so no sense in uprooting, but was just curious if I was wrong; if there may be some place where laws are truly made to protect citizens, not protect CEO's bank accounts.
Don't be discouraged. It's not like that everywhere. Switzerland has a good social system. For example every year when a person files their taxes the government will subsidize their health insurance if they see that they can't meet the payments. This is done automatically. They send a letter to the person informing them that their health insurance will be subsidized. It has nothing to do with welfare it has to do with the persons income. Even if a person makes 80,000chf a year but must take care of a family of 6 then that family may qualify for the health subsidy. No one in Switzerland can be denied health insurance even if you have a pre-existing condition.

I love USA but the government has become a bit comical and "completely out of touch with the American people." Your inclinations are correct you just have to decide what you will do about them if anything. If you want to try a different country don't let other people "scare you." Least of all about Switzerland. It's the 2nd best country in the world to live, has 3 cities in the top 10 cities in the world to live. They sure must be doing something right. Don't go the negative way, go the positive way. Either way you will get results so you may as well stay with the positive. With any move you make you will never know all the answers in advance. If you want to give it a go you'll just have to visit and check it out for yourself. It will be a nice vacation anyways even if you don't decide to move...
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  #144  
Old 19.12.2010, 23:53
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Re: Absolutely disgusted with American politics and the state of living here....

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As far as I know the Stammtisch is a table for locals are friends of the restauranteur. The seats may have name plates, generally they are occupied by the chief business or influential men of the village. Unless invited you will not be allowed to sit at the stammtisch, it is generally where the village busness gets done.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...408482,00.html

Perhaps in some parts of Switzerland the purpose of the table has been relaxed.

I was born Swiss, I will save you what happened when my husband became Swiss- don't want to 'diss' anyone.

A friend who had been born in Siwtzerland gone to school with and been an active well-liked, participating member of a village received some negative votes by secret ballot from other villagers when he applied for citizenship.
he never found out who had voted against him.
2008
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7427865.stm

Actually it was Pwho provided the figures for the disparity in wealth in Switzerland being higher in in Switzerland than the US, in another thread in answer to a post where I suspected it.
However things are changing in the US definitely the gap is growing, as it is everywhere.
I already stated I am an NPR fan not Fox news.

I always have to be careful to look at Swiss statistics to ascertain whether the statistics ( such as for literacy) are for all people living in Switzerland or those with Swiss nationality.
Wikipedia states that illiteracy in Switzerland is very low, however if you look at high document literacy rates, Switzerland is 13th US is 9th

http://www.vexen.co.uk/countries/best.html

Now, there are many peopl in Switzerland who considered it their home, but because of the stringent citizenship process are dissuaded from becoming Swiss, even if they have lived their most their lives, contribute, pay taxes etc. Amongst them:

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/Home/Arc...ml?cid=7464572

So they don't figure in the Swiss literacy statistics and perhaps many other areas where statistics for Switzerland are stated.

When it comes to embedded press, chapter 15 of Direct Democracy by Fossedal has an interesting discussion of the press- visible tendency to be less confrontational.
http://books.google.com/books?id=t48...page&q&f=false

I do not know of one Swiss paper that openly carries the baton against Swiss racist attitudes, the majority support the Swiss against the claims of racism from the UN. even though this was of course a major issue. In the US some of the most popular programs are those that poke holes in America.
I was careful about criticizing anything Swiss while in Switzerland.
Here in the US I find that the Americans I know are too busy criticizing themselves as a nation,they have some romantic notion that everything is better in Europe. Two have just moved!

Actually there is a lot that I admire about the Amish, they live in harmony with nature, have a very low carbon-footprint, they have stamina, guts are pacifists and can be very forgiving.

Anyway, I should just return to not unnecessarily upsetting the Swiss. I should save it for my American friends they are so hypercritical.

There are many excellent reason to stay in Switzerland, imagine my friend's faces when I tell them that if you are made redundant you used to be able to claim 80% of your wages for 2 years, then you will be most likely found a position. Our Swiss insurance (health, dental, car, house) was more expensive in CH than the US, the service was better in some ways worse in others.
You say you were "born" Swiss but have you ever lived in Switzerland? Your post are so unfactual that I have a hard time believeing that you are. It doesn't matter if they are negative about Switzerland, you can be as negative as you like but they don't make sense coming from a "born Swiss person." I'm sorry but I don't believe you...take it for what it's worth...
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  #145  
Old 19.12.2010, 23:55
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Re: Absolutely disgusted with American politics and the state of living here....

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Moore Choepf I love theme
..but see, that's exactly it. I explicitly didn't mention the name as it might be offensive to somebody..but you chose to write it out and put a comedic spin on it. How very Swiss! In Germany they're called different.
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  #146  
Old 19.12.2010, 23:56
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Re: Absolutely disgusted with American politics and the state of living here....

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..thus the little cream filled chocolate pastries still carry the derogatory name in Switzerland, right?
Yes christmas is coming, I remember introducing my children to Swiss traditions
Negrokusse, Mohrenkopf, the parade to find Schmutzli in the woods, passing without comment under the SVP racist ads.

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- In Switzerland there are many free legal advice offices and many organisations (many ethnic organisations among them) offering free legal advice. They are fairly easy to find
Thanks Wollishofner, that's great, I didn't know that they existed, could you please provide some links where people can get free legal representation in fighting racial injustice?
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  #147  
Old 19.12.2010, 23:59
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Re: Absolutely disgusted with American politics and the state of living here....

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..but see, that's exactly it. I explicitly didn't mention the name as it might be offensive to somebody..but you chose to write it out and put a comedic spin on it. How very Swiss! In Germany they're called different.
I have been called "Swiss Cheese" and other names Thousands of times I am still alive and well
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  #148  
Old 19.12.2010, 23:59
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Re: OP's wife, again

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It's the 2nd best country in the world to live, has 3 cities in the top 10 cities in the world to live. They sure must be doing something right.
..according to whom?! Do you know that most school don't have an emergency path? Or that most public buildings don't have emergency lights or a backup generator? Or that many public buildings are not wheelchair accessible? I'll glady provide you with more facts...but I don't want this to turn into "Backwards Switzerland".
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Old 19.12.2010, 23:59
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Re: Absolutely disgusted with American politics and the state of living here....

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Thanks Wollishofner, that's great, I didn't know that they existed, could you please provide some links where people can get free legal representation in fighting racial injustice?
Yes, this would be a great public service post Wolli. But it is probably best to post it on its on thread for better searchability.
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  #150  
Old 20.12.2010, 00:01
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Re: Absolutely disgusted with American politics and the state of living here....

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I have been called "Swiss Cheese" and other names Thousands of times I am still alive and well
..yes, you're still alive..not sure if you're well.
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  #151  
Old 20.12.2010, 00:04
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Re: Absolutely disgusted with American politics and the state of living here....

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..yes, you're still alive..not sure if you're well.
Take my word for it,I am
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  #152  
Old 20.12.2010, 00:06
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Re: Absolutely disgusted with American politics and the state of living here....

OK - warning here as this is a bit of a rant...

My Wife and I are in CH for work reasons. We are American and have been in Zurich for 5 years.

To be honest, not really in love with Zurich and how things are here, but life is OK and no major complaints. We have lived in France and Sweden for many years, so have experienced Europe. And I have ran an office in Beijing, so have some experience in Asia.

To the OP... I really do not understand people who say that they are "disgusted with American politics" so want to leave. I have a serious pet-peave with people from ANY country that experience things that they do not like, so they just decide to leave. WTF is that all about? If you are a citizen of a country, use your right to vote and try to change things!!! I vote in the US and contribute to causes that I feel are important. I look forward to returning and becoming active in US politics again.

To bring things closer to home, there is a big problem with Albanian/former Yugoslavians that were granted refugee status 10-15 years ago... they were given 'refugee status' and now that their countries are at peace, it is time to go home and FIX things.

There are Africans/Arabs/Asians in Europe fleeing dire economic circumstances. Why do these people not want to make some money in Europe and either move back home or try to contribute to groups that are working to reform their home countries?

I have seen several Tamil demonstrations in Zurich... but will any of these people move back to their country of origin and try to fix things?

It does not surprise me that the SVP is making great gains in CH. So many people who were granted "political refugee" status just refuse to go back home.

With regards to people that truly want to emigrate permanently, there are official channels to make this request. We started a business in CH and will qualify for a C permit this year. We could eventually qualify for a passport, but we do not intend to stay.

Just seems crazy to me that educated people from poor countries would rather just go to Europe or the US rather than try to improve things in their home countries.

rant over...
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  #153  
Old 20.12.2010, 00:06
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Re: OP's wife, again

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..according to whom?! Do you know that most school don't have an emergency path? Or that most public buildings don't have emergency lights or a backup generator? Or that many public buildings are not wheelchair accessible? I'll glady provide you with more facts...but I don't want this to turn into "Backwards Switzerland".
You must not forget Switzerland runs a bit more "efficient" than a lot of other places. For example they were doing some construction near a school in Switzerland. There was no need to make drama about it,with all kinds of signs about "being careful and being aware." It's obvious that construction is going on and you have to be cautious. The Swiss are more mature in that respect. They figure "if you're going to act like an idiot, then you deserve whatever you get."...
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  #154  
Old 20.12.2010, 00:10
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Re: OP's wife, again

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You must not forget Switzerland runs a bit more "efficient" than a lot of other places. For example they were doing some construction near a school in Switzerland. There was no need to make drama about it,with all kinds of signs about "being careful and being aware." It's obvious that construction is going on and you have to be cautious. The Swiss are more mature in that respect. They figure "if you're going to act like an idiot, then you deserve whatever you get."...
Swiss reasoning at its finest...yes, you've intergrated very well!
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Old 20.12.2010, 00:10
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Re: Absolutely disgusted with American politics and the state of living here....

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OK - warning here as this is a bit of a rant...

My Wife and I are in CH for work reasons. We are American and have been in Zurich for 5 years.

To be honest, not really in love with Zurich and how things are here, but life is OK and no major complaints. We have lived in France and Sweden for many years, so have experienced Europe. And I have ran an office in Beijing, so have some experience in Asia.

To the OP... I really do not understand people who say that they are "disgusted with American politics" so want to leave. I have a serious pet-peave with people from ANY country that experience things that they do not like, so they just decide to leave. WTF is that all about? If you are a citizen of a country, use your right to vote and try to change things!!! I vote in the US and contribute to causes that I feel are important. I look forward to returning and becoming active in US politics again.

To bring things closer to home, there is a big problem with Albanian/former Yugoslavians that were granted refugee status 10-15 years ago... they were given 'refugee status' and now that their countries are at peace, it is time to go home and FIX things.

There are Africans/Arabs/Asians in Europe fleeing dire economic circumstances. Why do these people not want to make some money in Europe and either move back home or try to contribute to groups that are working to reform their home countries?

I have seen several Tamil demonstrations in Zurich... but will any of these people move back to their country of origin and try to fix things?

It does not surprise me that the SVP is making great gains in CH. So many people who were granted "political refugee" status just refuse to go back home.

With regards to people that truly want to emigrate permanently, there are official channels to make this request. We started a business in CH and will qualify for a C permit this year. We could eventually qualify for a passport, but we do not intend to stay.

Just seems crazy to me that educated people from poor countries would rather just go to Europe or the US rather than try to improve things in their home countries.

rant over...
I can agree with you on that point (in bold) On the Swiss passport issue qualifying for a Swiss passport takes a lot of years and still you may not receive it...
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Old 20.12.2010, 00:11
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Re: OP's wife, again

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Swiss reasoning at its finest...yes, you've intergrated very well!
Thank You darling...I thought you would "get it"...
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  #157  
Old 20.12.2010, 00:14
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Re: OP's wife, again

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Thank You darling...I thought you would "get it"...
..now that you've figured out where the smileys are, can you please explain what a sign has to do with an emergency path, a backup generator, wheelchair access etc?
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Old 20.12.2010, 00:22
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Re: Absolutely disgusted with American politics and the state of living here....

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You say you were "born" Swiss but have you ever lived in Switzerland? Your post are so unfactual that I have a hard time believeing that you are. It doesn't matter if they are negative about Switzerland, you can be as negative as you like but they don't make sense coming from a "born Swiss person." I'm sorry but I don't believe you...take it for what it's worth...
I have a typically Swiss name-can't get more Swiss, yes I lived there, have a Swiss passort, still have a house there, still go back, and in daily contact and speak Schweizer-deutsch,will be phoning again tomorrow,kids speak Schweizer Deutsch attended to regular Swiss schools, just hung my advent calender up, miss candlemaking at the church, the parade in appenzell, boogbreene nach Weihnachten bake my own sammichlaus breads, will also do the dreikoenigs bread, finkli tradition, still have my own homemade decorations, looking for little Swiss chocolates to out in the advent calendar (bit late I know),just put my kerzen turm up, avents- 4 candle table cake decoration, I guess my daughter will bake white anisestern, and biberlichuechen....... but noooo Schmutzli for us, I guess after this thread I am in his Swiss book of misdemeanours.

I wonder why it doesn't make sense to you for negative comments to come from a born Swiss person, am I such an anomaly fouling up the neat and orderly Swiss statistics? I know that Swiss in their need for order find outliers difficult to deal with,but you can't just ignore them, or discredit them, that would be a deliberate skewing of statistics.

Now I would translate all of the above into Schwiitzer deutsch, but I'm a bit rusty, maybe I'll ask one of the kids to do it.
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Old 20.12.2010, 00:22
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Re: OP's wife, again

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..now that you've figured out where the smileys are, can you please explain what a sign has to do with an emergency path, a backup generator, wheelchair access etc?
...LOL..I don't know why you are in Switzerland. Must be the babes or the dough. Or maybe both? What do you think? How many handicapped people do you see around Switzerland needing handicap access to buildings etc? I could see if they had no elevators (remember those?) ...How long have you been living in Switzerland? Where did you find the need for a backup generator? Emergecny path to where? Seems like you need one out of Switzerland? Really do yourself a favor and if you need a wheelchair I am sure the Swiss will be able to accommodate you...
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Old 20.12.2010, 00:25
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Re: Absolutely disgusted with American politics and the state of living here....

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I have a typically Swiss name-can't get more Swiss, yes I lived there, have a Swiss passort, still have a house there, still go back, and in daily contact and speak Schweizer-deutsch,will be phoning again tomorrow,kids speak Schweizer Deutsch attended to regular Swiss schools, just hung my advent calender up, miss candlemaking at the church, the parade in appenzell, boogbreene nach Weihnachten bake my own sammichlaus breads, will also do the dreikoenigs bread, finkli tradition, still have my own homemade decorations, looking for little Swiss chocolates to out in the advent calendar (bit late I know),just put my kerzen turm up, avents- 4 candle table cake decoration, I guess my daughter will bake white anisestern, and biberlichuechen....... but noooo Schmutzli for us, I guess after this thread I am in his Swiss book of misdemeanours.

I wonder why it doesn't make sense to you for negative comments to come from a born Swiss person, am I such an anomaly fouling up the neat and orderly Swiss statistics? I know that Swiss in their need for order find outliers difficult to deal with,but you can't just ignore them, or discredit them, that would be a deliberate skewing of statistics.

Now I would translate all of the above into Schwiitzer deutsch, but I'm a bit rusty, maybe I'll ask one of the kids to do it.
Yes but you claim to be "naturaly born Swiss"...I don't believe you. Your writing in this post proves it...
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