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Old 14.01.2011, 15:46
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Diesel vs Benzin in Switzerland

I am currently living in Germany and planing to buy a new car. In Germany, it is worth to buy a Diesel car if you drive more than 15000km/year(more or less) even it is more expensive for sale, high tax and with higher maintaining costs.

In the next 2years, I will move to Zurich due to working reasons. In case that the benzin price is lower than Germany. Does anybody know that if it is worth to use a diesel car in Swiss? Any "desicion" point like "15000km/year" in Germany which help me decide.

Many thanks in advance!
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Old 14.01.2011, 17:12
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Re: Diesel vs Benzin in Switzerland

I found this website for a comparison, but it is in french...
http://www.essenceoudiesel.com/
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Old 14.01.2011, 17:14
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Re: Diesel vs Benzin in Switzerland

And that's a german version... http://de.cars.yahoo.com/diesel_benzin_rechner.html

Hope this helps.
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Old 29.04.2011, 15:20
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Re: Diesel vs Benzin in Switzerland

Diesel or Benzene? I am getting mixed views and we are totally confused.
Here is a summary

1)Cost of buying both diesel car and the fuel is higher (fuel price difference is just in rappons per litre) but Diesel is more environment friendly.
2)Benzin is cheaper to buy, but will incur more running costs. (?)
3) Resale : which is easier to re-sell?

4) The so called noise factor with diesel cars is turning into myth with the latest technology (??)
5) Switzerland wants all new diesel vehicles to be fitted with particle filters as of 2007. Do we need to ask this specifically for newer models (2010 onwards)

A big thanks in advance.

Also this article is relevant for this thread. (only in german)

http://www.beobachter.ch/konsum/multimedia/artikel/vergleich_modell-mit-benzin-oder-dieselmotor/

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Old 29.04.2011, 17:05
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Re: Diesel vs Benzin in Switzerland

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I am currently living in Germany and planing to buy a new car. In Germany, it is worth to buy a Diesel car if you drive more than 15000km/year(more or less) even it is more expensive for sale, high tax and with higher maintaining costs.

In the next 2years, I will move to Zurich due to working reasons. In case that the benzin price is lower than Germany. Does anybody know that if it is worth to use a diesel car in Swiss? Any "desicion" point like "15000km/year" in Germany which help me decide.

Many thanks in advance!
If your car is something BIG




Diesel may make sense,

BUT if it rather is something suited to Zürich like










you rather stay with a Benzin driven motor car
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Old 29.04.2011, 17:32
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Re: Diesel vs Benzin in Switzerland

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Diesel or Benzene? I am getting mixed views and we are totally confused.
Here is a summary

1)Cost of buying both diesel car and the fuel is higher (fuel price difference is just in rappons per litre) but Diesel is more environment friendly.
2)Benzin is cheaper to buy, but will incur more running costs. (?)
3) Resale : which is easier to re-sell?

4) The so called noise factor with diesel cars is turning into myth with the latest technology (??)
5) Switzerland wants all new diesel vehicles to be fitted with particle filters as of 2007. Do we need to ask this specifically for newer models (2010 onwards)

A big thanks in advance.

Also this article is relevant for this thread. (only in german)

http://www.beobachter.ch/konsum/multimedia/artikel/vergleich_modell-mit-benzin-oder-dieselmotor/
About "but Diesel is more environment friendly" - no it is not. That is why so many towns now ban Diesel cars & some countries are talking about charging higher taxes on diesel cars to discourage people from buying them.
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Old 29.04.2011, 17:54
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Re: Diesel vs Benzin in Switzerland

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About "but Diesel is more environment friendly" - no it is not. That is why so many towns now ban Diesel cars & some countries are talking about charging higher taxes on diesel cars to discourage people from buying them.
This is also something that confuses me .. I got contradictory information from various sources.. So if Diesel is bad and every one is against it ..Why are the diesel cars expensive than the ''benzene'' (The only factor being mileage? )
even "medium sized" VW Diesel cars are more pricey than the benzene versions.
Also I hear it is ''safer'' to buy diesel cars as benzene cars are heavily taxed in the rest of the Europe. And once you try reselling your 'export resale options' are drastically reduced.

Last edited by miss_bean; 29.04.2011 at 18:07.
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Old 29.04.2011, 18:10
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Re: Diesel vs Benzin in Switzerland

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About "but Diesel is more environment friendly" - no it is not. That is why so many towns now ban Diesel cars & some countries are talking about charging higher taxes on diesel cars to discourage people from buying them.
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This is something that confuses me .. I got contradictory information from various sources.. So if Diesel is bad and every one is against it ..Why are the diesel cars expensive than the ''benzene'' (The only factor being mileage? )

Also I hear it is ''safer'' to buy diesel cars as benzene cars are heavily taxed in the rest of the Europe. And once you try reselling your 'export resale options' are drastically reduced.
That depends. An up-to date diesel (anything since about 2007, some earlier) with particulate filter and cat is pretty well as clean as a petrol. Those countries talking about penalty taxes or bans on diesels (and Switzerland is one) are only talking about older, dirtier engines. However, their CO2 efficiency is not quite as great as the fuel economy suggests as diesel has a higher proportion of carbon in it than petrol.

Servicing intervals and costs on diesels are now usually the same as the equivalent petrol cars. You really have to factor in the extra cost of buying and the price difference of the fuel against the improved economy.

Certain European countries tend to prefer diesel because the fuel is cheaper. However this certainly does not mean there is no market for petrol engined cars in those countries.
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Old 29.04.2011, 18:10
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Re: Diesel vs Benzin in Switzerland

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This is something that confuses me .. I got contradictory information from various sources.. So if Diesel is bad and every one is against it ..Why are the diesel cars expensive than the ''benzene'' (The only factor being mileage? )

Also I hear it is ''safer'' to buy diesel cars as benzene cars are heavily taxed in the rest of the Europe. And once you try reselling your 'export resale options' are drastically reduced.
Yes it is confusing.

It used to be that diesel was universally considered environmentally friendly.

Recently people have come up with counter arguments.
1. It has been discovered that Diesel produces fine dust that causes health problems (this is why you now have these fine particulate filters for diesel cars)
2. Benzine engine design has improved a lot over the last 20 years (in environmental terms) while Diesel has not.

I am not saying I believe these arguments - I am just quoting them. Probably the fine dust argument is true - I do not know enough about engine design to comment on the second one.
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Old 29.04.2011, 18:16
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Re: Diesel vs Benzin in Switzerland

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That depends. An up-to date diesel (anything since about 2007, some earlier) with particulate filter and cat is pretty well as clean as a petrol. Those countries talking about penalty taxes or bans on diesels (and Switzerland is one) are only talking about older, dirtier engines. However, their CO2 efficiency is not quite as great as the fuel economy suggests as diesel has a higher proportion of carbon in it than petrol.
True..
Traditional vehicle fuels
Ever stiffer legislation has been introduced since the 1970s governing the lead content of petrol (gasoline) and the sulphur content of diesel.
Nearly 30% of new cars in Switzerland are diesel powered. The number of diesel cars on Swiss roads trebled between 1990 and 2005. In order to combat air pollution, Switzerland wants all new diesel vehicles to be fitted with particle filters as of 2007.
However, the government has been criticised for not being stricter and for not setting a good example. Some 16,000 army diesel trucks were still on the road in 2006 without filters.

http://www.swissworld.org/en/environment/vehicle_fuels/vehicle_fuels/
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Old 29.04.2011, 18:22
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Re: Diesel vs Benzin in Switzerland

Welcome to Trickyland.

Diesel CAN be better than Benzin/gasoline. It depends. In the simplest strokes:

- Diesel engines are simpler and more reliable (no ignition system) the Benzin engines, and produce a lot more torque for a given size, but often less horsepower.
- because they produce more torque, you can often run them at far fewer RPMs, which means they wind up needing to consume fewer liters of fuel.
- However, the emissions from Diesel tend to be a lot dirtier than Benzin.

Diesel was traditionally used in big vehicles, that needed reliability and the ability to pull heavy loads, but not necessarily a tremendous top speed or wicked acceleration. However, as transmissions became more sophisticated, they became more practical for making very simple, efficient small cars. You often see them mileage numbers comparable to or better than the best hybrids. Even further, they have begun refining road diesel further to give you nicer emissions. (There are now separate grades of diesel for cars, trucks, and off-road use.) what's more, the engines have grown sufficiently sophisticated that they are even similarly quiet to their Benzin cousins. In short, diesel has come a long way.

The other perspective is that all this refinement was to get Diesels to the point where they are nearly as pleasant as a Benzin car is naturally.

The short version is that unless you tow a lot, or really like to drive super-fast, it doesn't much matter anymore. If you tow, go diesel. If you like to drive really fast, go Benzin. Otherwise, just take what's cheaper and be happy.
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Old 29.04.2011, 18:22
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Re: Diesel vs Benzin in Switzerland

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About "but Diesel is more environment friendly" - no it is not. That is why so many towns now ban Diesel cars & some countries are talking about charging higher taxes on diesel cars to discourage people from buying them.
No vehicle that uses a fossil fuel is going to be "environmentally friendly". Gas, Diesel, Propane, Natural gas, etc. are all releasing pollution.

However compared to a normal Gas, or Benzin engine, the diesel engine will have a higher efficiency, mostly because diesel engines can use a higher compression ratio.

Better efficiency from your diesel engine means your diesel car, compared to the equivalent gas one, will use less fuel per kilometer. Using less fuel, means less carbon dioxide into the atmosphere, and this would be more environmentally friendly (to some people).

Having said this, diesel engines produce more soot, or tiny particles. And some may say that this would make it less environmentally friendly, although there is not a lot of evidence to support this.

Diesel Cars are usually more expensive since the diesel engines are more expensive. Because they run on a higher compression ratio, the engines have to be beefed up to handle the extra loads. They are consequently slightly heavier and more expensive to make.

If you're just going from point a to point b without the need for speed, in my opinion diesel is the way to go.
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Old 29.04.2011, 18:29
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Re: Diesel vs Benzin in Switzerland

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Welcome to Trickyland.

Diesel CAN be better than Benzin/gasoline. It depends. In the simplest strokes:

- Diesel engines are simpler and more reliable (no ignition system) the Benzin engines, and produce a lot more torque for a given size, but often less horsepower.
- because they produce more torque, you can often run them at far fewer RPMs, which means they wind up needing to consume fewer liters of fuel.
- However, the emissions from Diesel tend to be a lot dirtier than Benzin.

Diesel was traditionally used in big vehicles, that needed reliability and the ability to pull heavy loads, but not necessarily a tremendous top speed or wicked acceleration. However, as transmissions became more sophisticated, they became more practical for making very simple, efficient small cars. You often see them mileage numbers comparable to or better than the best hybrids. Even further, they have begun refining road diesel further to give you nicer emissions. (There are now separate grades of diesel for cars, trucks, and off-road use.) what's more, the engines have grown sufficiently sophisticated that they are even similarly quiet to their Benzin cousins. In short, diesel has come a long way.

The other perspective is that all this refinement was to get Diesels to the point where they are nearly as pleasant as a Benzin car is naturally.

The short version is that unless you tow a lot, or really like to drive super-fast, it doesn't much matter anymore. If you tow, go diesel. If you like to drive really fast, go Benzin. Otherwise, just take what's cheaper and be happy.
Thanks Dmay..Based on the similar assumptions,we have already booked a diesel ''medium'' sized (not a truck) car. But it is often confusing to hear contradictory views . Sometimes it really makes me feel no one knows So just pick one of them and be happy!

Thank you all who cared to reply, Englishforum
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Old 29.04.2011, 18:31
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Re: Diesel vs Benzin in Switzerland

Quote:
That depends. An up-to date diesel (anything since about 2007, some earlier) with particulate filter and cat is pretty well as clean as a petrol. Those countries talking about penalty taxes or bans on diesels (and Switzerland is one) are only talking about older, dirtier engines. However, their CO2 efficiency is not quite as great as the fuel economy suggests as diesel has a higher proportion of carbon in it than petrol.

Servicing intervals and costs on diesels are now usually the same as the equivalent petrol cars. You really have to factor in the extra cost of buying and the price difference of the fuel against the improved economy.

Certain European countries tend to prefer diesel because the fuel is cheaper. However this certainly does not mean there is no market for petrol engined cars in those countries.
About "Those countries talking about penalty taxes or bans on diesels (and Switzerland is one) are only talking about older, dirtier engines. "

Only partly true; the EU is talking about a higher tax on diesel fuel because of the high CO2...
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Old 29.04.2011, 18:46
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Re: Diesel vs Benzin in Switzerland

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If you're just going from point a to point b without the need for speed, in my opinion diesel is the way to go.
Yes we will driving mostly in switzerland only. SO as of now, the speed factor is ok as most of the regions fall 30, 60,80 Zones or General 50 even 100 120 in autobahn should be fine
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Old 29.04.2011, 20:08
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Re: Diesel vs Benzin in Switzerland

The VAG 1.4 TSI engine pushes out 178 BHP and yet returns a highly respectable 45 mpg (combined). These small, supercharged and turbo'ed petrol engines seem to be gaining ground on diesels.
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Old 29.04.2011, 20:28
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Re: Diesel vs Benzin in Switzerland

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No vehicle that uses a fossil fuel is going to be "environmentally friendly". ...
How about if I power my diesel engine with rapeseed oil. That's not a fossil fuel.
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Old 29.04.2011, 21:06
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Re: Diesel vs Benzin in Switzerland

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The VAG 1.4 TSI engine pushes out 178 BHP and yet returns a highly respectable 45 mpg (combined). These small, supercharged and turbo'ed petrol engines seem to be gaining ground on diesels.
I rented one of those and it is astonishing. All the grunt of a Diesel but revs very nicely.
I just wonder if it will become popular. It is obviously much cheaper to install a 2liter engine without a supercharger and a turbocharger.
Nevertheless, it is brilliantly engineered as it just feels like a 2+ liter 4 cylinder engine. The response is much more linear than a turbo Diesel.
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Old 29.04.2011, 21:43
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Re: Diesel vs Benzin in Switzerland

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How about if I power my diesel engine with rapeseed oil. That's not a fossil fuel.
okay...? You're right, that's not a fossil fuel, and your point is... that using rapseed oil would be considered carbon neutral and some people would consider that environmentally friendly? cool.
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Old 30.04.2011, 00:40
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Re: Diesel vs Benzin in Switzerland

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How about if I power my diesel engine with rapeseed oil. That's not a fossil fuel.
I know people in England who power their diesels with used chip shop oil; I am still trying to figure out if that is, on balance, good for the environment....
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