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  #101  
Old 06.02.2011, 12:58
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Re: Swiss women are the slimmest in Europe and British women are....

I bought my husband a CD : Woodstock - The Director's Cut, which is a fantastic reminder of the famous 1969 3 day concert.

We watched it recently and about half-way through my husband suddenly commented on how slim, healthy and fit all the revellers looked. And it is true - I don't think you can spot one overweight person amongst the thousands there throughout the entire film!

(It is definitely worth watching anyway for a spot of nostalgia and fab music )
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  #102  
Old 06.02.2011, 13:07
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Re: Swiss women are the slimmest in Europe and British women are....

I was in the school playground talking to a swiss mum the other week who had just returned from a holiday in Scarborough UK. she politley asked me why so many of the women there were massively overweight, to which i reposted their not, its quite normal up there!
But i could not answer her other question of why they wore skin tight clothing 3 sizes to small with roles of fat hanging out every where.
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  #103  
Old 06.02.2011, 13:30
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Re: Swiss women are the slimmest in Europe and British women are....

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I'd ask the question differently ' are the slimmest, healthiest '?
You might be speaking of the few and far between who happen to be thin but unhealthy.
Generally speaking: yes, fit and slim (or just downright normal) are a lot healthier.

Difficult health issues can be reduced with weight loss. For instance: high blood pressure.

Staying fit is expected here, it's just a way of life. One of the advantages the Swiss have, is that they eat unprocessed natural foods. Most of the prepared and processed foods that you find in the anglo-saxon countries are just terrible for maintaining a healthy diet.

What I do find really really unfair, is the amount of food these lovely usually petite ladies can eat and still stay slim !!!!! To stay fit, I have to suffer and eat lettuce !

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I feel like the woman on the far right most of the time shape-wise. There are much fatter women out there but I'm pretty large compared to the people not on the photo. I really need to find something different to deal with stress and unhappiness than food. I guess this is another factor, my Swiss workmates say stuff like 'Man, I feel stressed, I think I'll go to the gym after work'.
I'll second Oldhand, Kittster you just don't see yourself. You're a tall, pretty young lady.

Women are very hard on themselves, they don't see themselves as they are.
It can take 20 years to look back at pictures (regarding a time when one is having doubts) and think: mmmm I was quite ok !!
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  #104  
Old 06.02.2011, 13:56
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Re: Swiss women are the slimmest in Europe and British women are....

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I'd ask the question differently ' are the slimmest, healthiest '?
.
This is an interesting point.

I have 2 daughters - one is a UK size 6 , one is a UK size 14.

The size 14 daughter is so fit and runs marathons, cycled everywhere when she came over last Summer and in my opinion is very healthy. She has no health problems

The size 6 one though, takes medication for blood pressure, does exercise and seems to always be vulnerable to illness (swine flu last year). She looks glowing with health though

If you look at them both you could say that the slim one looks healthier which perhaps is not the case?
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  #105  
Old 06.02.2011, 14:31
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Re: Swiss women are the slimmest in Europe and British women are....

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Here we go again - shifting the blame onto something else. Do people really believe that the world-wide obesity epidemic is due to smoking cessation?
No... some people simply like to put stuff in their mouth. Some of it contains calories, some contains nicotine.

I know I tend to want to munch so I TRY to have "sugar-free" gum on hand as having that in my mouth tends to help keep me from scrounging around the kitchen looking for something to nibble on. For some other folks who have that tendency, smoking does it for them.

Two (bad) solutions to the same problem.

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This is an interesting point.

I have 2 daughters - one is a UK size 6 , one is a UK size 14.

The size 14 daughter is so fit and runs marathons, cycled everywhere when she came over last Summer and in my opinion is very healthy. She has no health problems

The size 6 one though, takes medication for blood pressure, does exercise and seems to always be vulnerable to illness (swine flu last year). She looks glowing with health though

If you look at them both you could say that the slim one looks healthier which perhaps is not the case?
I think there is a bit more to it than that.

My mother is 5'9" and looks great at size 14. After 5 kids though, she's a bit hippy and going slimmer than that, she starts looking very pear shaped, which she doesn't care much for.

My younger sis is 5'6" and "never" was particularly athletic at all and has a fairly delicate build. When she has gained weight in the past, she tends to look unhealthy though, very very soft and flabby.

Me, I got some of the best and worst genes from both sides of the family - stocky and short with wide hips and a heavy bosom. At size 8'ish my chest was attracting waaaay more attention than any 12yo should have to deal with, between 10 and 14 I am happiest, but not displeased with size 16. On me, it looks more balanced that way.

Then again, a lot of that is in the eye of the beholder anyhow.
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  #106  
Old 06.02.2011, 14:54
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Re: Swiss women are the slimmest in Europe and British women are....

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  #107  
Old 06.02.2011, 16:17
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Re: Swiss women are the slimmest in Europe and British women are....

Dunno about that, but Indian women are the preetiest
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  #108  
Old 06.02.2011, 16:23
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Re: Swiss women are the slimmest in Europe and British women are....

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I'm a student on a budget and I eat really well, cooking in bulk and freezing the rest for later! It's healthier and cheaper than buying ready meals, and tastes better too. People who say that it's too expensive to cook from scratch are lying!
You will actually find out, that in CH, buying in bulk and cooking (one cannot really eat out that much even if one would want) may be sometimes more expensive than buying semi-ready or ready foods. Unless you want to spend every waking moment chasing the sales and "aktions" and log stuff home by kilos (for which you will also need resources) from about 6 different stores, so, every night a different store. Been there, done that. Making blanket statements about a culture when you aren't even here makes no sense.

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The most enjoyable part of grocery shopping is to have a peek at what other people are buying.
I very much agree with this. I just had a simple soup yesterday for lunch in lovely Manora in LS when I ran out of work, and watched other people, what they ordered, loads of chicks on their shopping hunt saturday, obviously. They all had salads. The thin ones mini salad with a bottle of water, the chubby ones 3x as much salad with pop and fried cheese rolls and other sides. They all had salads, probably both felt ultra healthy, but it was the portions that mattered.

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A) Multi-course meals ? You see in the statistics that exactly French women show up as fairly slim.
Ok, if you are thinking about French, multicourse yes yes, but the sizes of all together probably amounts to one decent meal.

I don't know a single French chick that would actually work out. They smoke, eat many miniscule things, that they role on their palate for a very long time, ton of coffee and wine. But muscle tone? I will look next time I am there. I don't want to bash them, though, I enjoy the differences, the obsession with esthetics, etc.

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obsessed about body weight is not really what Swiss people are.
Hm, the ones I know they pretty much obsess.

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But apparently, the lifestyle, by which Swiss women when going shopping love to walk around (in open air) to have a look at the shop-windows
See, you can go the other way. Others actually like to do interesting stuff, like study, have hobbies, live in libraries, spend time in kitchen, make stuff and clothes for their kids...Could be a little sedantery and one maybe has extra kilo or two, but why not? I would never think that window shopping, having no hobbies and not much to say, just cruise around cafes and buy clothes would be a recommended way to lose weight. But I do agree, walking is necesarry, I love it, too. Just don't feel like pointing fingers at interesting people I know just because they happen to have a few kilos more than me. What also irks me is the fact that thin people here think they are entitled to point out weight issues to those who weigh more, make jokes, laugh about it, it is totally accepted. It's incredible. Kids are probably most up front about it, when you tell them "quit bashing people" they just laugh and say "I can coz I ain't fat". Yeah, right. Some people here apparently feel the same



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Now, if I am going to defend people who are saying, pls be considerate and decent and don't assume all fatsos are fat since they are lazy and have no willpower, somebody will jump in with "don't get into the victime mindset" and probably say I am just fat and lazy to achieve my thinning goal myself. Which, the opposite would be true. I just dislike throwing fat people into one giant group. Of course most fat people probably have self esteem issues, willpower, etc. or nobody to help them, you name it. But I happen to know enough fat people with legitimate background to their weight control, actually, all my fat girlfriends have serious weight troubles due to steroids (Crowns), hormones (thyroid), and infrertility treatments or serious intestinal difficulties (allergies, celiacs). If my one of my friends wasn't fat she would be dead now, her extreme episode of Crown's attack and a series of operation was too hard, she relied on her little "stock" of weight when shite hit the fan. Nobody here knows exactly why all people are fat. So, to say it's all their fault, would make me laugh if it was not so stupid. Just because we know some cultures support "self pampering" mindset more and literally push food on people and don't help with being active and don't teach people how to really love themselves through proper healthy lifestyle, does not mean we are the experts and we can analyse all people's reasons for being seemingly inactive or seemingly lazily overweight.

Thanks, edot and pegster, for thoughtful posting. It seems so trendy to be black and white about certain issues here, thanks for adding some thoughtful gray.

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I bought my husband a CD : Woodstock - The Director's Cut, which is a fantastic reminder of the famous 1969 3 day concert.
Yeah, people used to rock out way more. Dancing and gigging is great. I wish there were more festivals here.
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  #109  
Old 06.02.2011, 16:42
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Re: Swiss women are the slimmest in Europe and British women are....

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Of course most fat people probably have self esteem issues, willpower, etc. or nobody to help them, you name it. But I happen to know enough fat people with legitimate background to their weight control, actually, all my fat girlfriends have serious weight troubles due to steroids (Crowns), hormones (thyroid), and infrertility treatments or serious intestinal difficulties (allergies, celiacs)
Regarding celiac disease - one of the main features of the disease is weight-loss.

I have never met anyone with undiagnosed celiac disease who is over-weight.

If someone has diagnosed with it and knows how to live with it - i.e. total avoidance of gluten, they will, in the end, after their body repairs itself, be no different from anyone else - i.e. they will not put on excessive weight.

Food allergies don't cause people to put on weight.

Steroids can as can thyroid problems (although everyone I know with thyroid problems are underweight).

And when have I mocked anyone on this thread?
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  #110  
Old 06.02.2011, 16:57
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Re: Swiss women are the slimmest in Europe and British women are....

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Regarding celiac disease - one of the main features of the disease is weight-loss.

I have never met anyone with undiagnosed celiac disease who is over-weight.

If someone has diagnosed with it and knows how to live with it - i.e. total avoidance of gluten, they will, in the end, after their body repairs itself, be no different from anyone else - i.e. they will not put on excessive weight.

Food allergies don't cause people to put on weight.

Steroids can as can thyroid problems (although everyone I know with thyroid problems are underweight).

And when have I mocked anyone on this thread?
And I didn't like the way you went after edot. You have no idea what makes people write what they do. To actually assume all people react at all times the same way to treatments, and are correctly diagnosed at the right time, are given the correct dose of the correct medicine, etc etc is so...uhm...what was it....black and white. Undignosed food allergies manifest themselves with lining inflamation: intestines, stomach. Some people lose weight, some pack on. The celiacs I know have been slim and fat depending how well managed their meds are and over all condition. Ill measured doses of thyroid meds and steroids will make you look like a balloon. Hormonal treatments after cancer operation and through infertility will make you look like a balloon, too. Not mentioning the nerves that a lot of people who don't have the correct support just support with food. You can go, then, and talk to the faces of those chicks and preach about how weak their willpower is. People are victimes of themselves, sometimes, sure. But sometimes they happen to be victims of their poor health they cannot influence, qacky docs, unhelpful attitudes of people, unreasonable expectations and other responsibilities that they have to take care of. I don't blame them for not prioritizing their weight at some time of their life. I am not being confrontational for the sake of it, I just feel bad for loads of people I know who struggled with this. It's not always easy for them to just stick to the routine and regime, to switch the mindset, when they have a lot of other things on their plate.
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  #111  
Old 06.02.2011, 17:02
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Re: Swiss women are the slimmest in Europe and British women are....

Tom, we mostly agree on things but when it comes to the weight issue, all I can say is count yourself lucky that you truly don't understand.
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  #112  
Old 06.02.2011, 17:07
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Re: Swiss women are the slimmest in Europe and British women are....

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You have no idea what makes people write what they do. To actually assume all people react at all times the same way to treatments, and are correctly diagnosed at the right time, are given the correct dose of the correct medicine, etc etc is so...uhm...what was it....black and white. Undignosed food allergies manifest themselves with lining inflamation: intestines, stomach. Some people lose weight, some pack on. Ill measured doses of thyroid meds and steroids will make you look like a balloon. Hormonal treatments after cancer operation and through infertility will make you look like a balloon, too. Not mentioning the nerves that a lot of people who don't have the correct support just support with food. You can go, then, and talk to the faces of those chicks and preach about how weak their willpower is. People are victimes of themselves, sometimes, sure. But sometimes they happen to be victims of their poor health they cannot influence, qacky docs, unhelpful attitudes of people, unreasonable expectations and other responsibilities that they have to take care of. I don't blame them for not prioritizing their weight at some time of their life. I am not being confrontational for the sake of it, I just feel bad for loads of people I know who struggled with this. It's not always easy for them to just stick to the routine and regime, to switch the mindset, when they have a lot of other things on their plate.
You're not looking at the big picture and you're getting personal.

And I know enough quite enough about fluid retention and inflammation due to cancer and steroid treatment but thanks for filling me in.

People are always getting sick with various symptoms, and with a multitude of causes, all of the time. No one's disputing that.

However, the original article, published in the Lancet was stating that British woman were, on average, much more obese than women in other European countries.

Now is this because British women are generally much sicker than other women or is it, on average, due to the fact that they, simply, eat too much of the wrong things, in too big a quantity and don't take enough exercise?
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  #113  
Old 06.02.2011, 17:31
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Re: Swiss women are the slimmest in Europe and British women are....

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You're not looking at the big picture and you're getting personal.
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Stop playing the victim. You're not.
Stop putting up excuses.

You alone can decide whether you want to do anything about it. And if you don't - then fine. But, stop playing the victim.
This is pretty personal, in my book. As it was in other weight related threads. Besides, to say there are never any medical issues that prevent people from being hubsch und schlank, as my dad would say...Of course, there are.

I think not even looking at the big picture can excuse throwing all obesity and weight related issues into one giant sweeping stereotype. I find it unhelpful. I was missing the word "generally, mostly, sometimes, some people...". It's the boring relativity that actually makes a lot of things palatable for those who's fight with obesity hasn't been succesful yet, due to things they are not able to influence.

(And sure, british chicks...eh. You should see the hen parties that head to Prague for some serious beer drinking).

Thanks, kittster, it did hit me late he seems not to understand...I have met some people with atttudes like that here.
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  #114  
Old 06.02.2011, 17:42
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Re: Swiss women are the slimmest in Europe and British women are....

Back from my flounce.

Thanks MC for the defense. Well, it was personal, but then there was backtracking so whatever.

Regardless of statisics, I object to incredibly cruel and inappropriate statements about people who are obese. Don't equate obesity with ugliness, stupidty, laziness and the rest.

But mass media, the medical profession, even Michele Obama, and certainly the diet industry focus on obesity when the focus should be on lifestyle. But that would be too complicated to discuss, so we focus on the simple, vivid image of a headless fat person (Headless because it serves to depersonalize). But it's just not that simple.

Women spend such a huge amount of time worrying about their weight. In western cultures, it seems it is inappropriate for a woman to be satisfied with her appearance no matter what she looks like. But women and men should really learn to appreciate their bodies - even imperfect, they do wonderful things. And everyone should try to be as active as he or she can regardless of weight.

If you can loose weight easily, then good for you. I know many people who have tried very hard to loose weight with diet and exercise and do not make progress. it is not always a question of will.

Obesity is not really the issue here. What is the issue is lack of movement, and lack of good nutrition. And, yoyo dieting which places an enormous amount of stress on the body, both physical and emotional.

Most diets fail. Why is that? Not just will power. Do you know that the number of people who are able to maintain a significant weight loss for more than a year or so is less than 10%? I read this blog a lot - I find the writer interesting. She is one of the people who has successfully maintained a weight loss over several years. But there aren't many.

http://justmaintaining.com/

Last edited by edot; 06.02.2011 at 18:00.
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  #115  
Old 06.02.2011, 18:00
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Re: Swiss women are the slimmest in Europe and British women are....

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In western cultures, it seems it is inappropriate for a woman to be satisfied with her appearance no matter what she looks like.
This is so true. And it is not only apperance, btw. It's loads of other things. I feel it here more than home, don't know why...Like, the minute you feel little too good, there is this giant "don't be all narcissistic now" finger raised. I don't mean to steal the thread to point out how under appreciated some women feel, by themselves, by the rest. Maybe the result of the lame suffrage issue.

I think to have a laugh on acount of people with weight troubles (unless it is themselves) is just nothing more than a cheap shot. They need to love themselves and mockery won't teach them. Respect and support. One does not need to be a perfect figure to deserve decency.
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  #116  
Old 06.02.2011, 18:14
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Re: Swiss women are the slimmest in Europe and British women are....

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Don't equate obesity with ugliness, stupidty, laziness and the rest.
... unless you're talking about me.
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  #117  
Old 06.02.2011, 18:19
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Re: Swiss women are the slimmest in Europe and British women are....

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... unless you're talking about me.
You can think whatever you like about yourself, although I doubt it's true.
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  #118  
Old 06.02.2011, 18:29
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Re: Swiss women are the slimmest in Europe and British women are....

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You can think whatever you like about yourself, although I doubt it's true.
I have never see DB in the flesh but there was once a photo of him posted at some event once - he looked rather hot to me
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  #119  
Old 06.02.2011, 18:34
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Re: Swiss women are the slimmest in Europe and British women are....

Well he will insist on wearing a jumper in the middle of summer.

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he looked rather hot to me
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  #120  
Old 06.02.2011, 18:52
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Re: Swiss women are the slimmest in Europe and British women are....

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Tom, we mostly agree on things but when it comes to the weight issue, all I can say is count yourself lucky that you truly don't understand.
I think it's the psychological side of things I of which I need to stay well clear.

However, regarding celiac disease, obesity, heart disease caused by obesity, weight-gain due to steroid treatment, weight gain and debilitation due to organ removal due to cancers, and reduction in quality of life due to obesity - well I have close experience to all of these in immediate family and so sadly, have a lot of other people in their families.

@Edot. I apologise. I wasn't intent on being personal but having re-read my post, it does certainly appear like that. I shouldn't have quoted you in that post and I shouldn't have used the plural 'You' as it was unclear. I 'm glad you've flounced back.
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