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  #41  
Old 11.02.2011, 14:38
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Re: You can't live on less than 70 000 in Switzerland?

This is totally true--there is a major disconnect in Zurich. Most of my friends work in areas which have nothing to do with finance; I wouldn't say any of them have trouble making ends meet, but there is definitely a lot of frustration over the salaries paid particularly by the big two banks.

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It's got nothing to do with expats vs others. It's FINANCE vs others, just like it is in London.
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  #42  
Old 11.02.2011, 14:44
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Re: You can't live on less than 70 000 in Switzerland?

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My wife and I picked up an application form for an apartment yesterday evening.

One section invites the applicants to state their salaries. The tick boxes go as follows:

30 000 - 40 000 ( )
40 000 - 50 000 ( )
50 000 - 60 000 ( )
60 000 - 70 000 ( )
Mehr ( )


You may draw your own conclusions about how normal people live in this country.
I agree that 30 000 per month is pretty low but it must be able to live on it
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  #43  
Old 11.02.2011, 14:46
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Re: You can't live on less than 70 000 in Switzerland?

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Note to self - do not attempt to comment on the EF while running a data recovery, full set of hardware diagnostics, and attempting a particularly tricky logic board extraction all at the same time. Should have learned that I don't multitask well years ago.
Hope you're earning more than 70,000 CHF.
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  #44  
Old 11.02.2011, 14:54
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Re: You can't live on less than 70 000 in Switzerland?

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Arggh, I've just got what you're on about. We're talking the same thing

Note to self - do not attempt to comment on the EF while running a data recovery, full set of hardware diagnostics, and attempting a particularly tricky logic board extraction all at the same time. Should have learned that I don't multitask well years ago.
That's what you get for working with macs. What's wrong with calling it a motherboard!
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  #45  
Old 11.02.2011, 14:59
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Re: You can't live on less than 70 000 in Switzerland?

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I also was dumbstruck finding out that not all the locals make 6-digit salaries here. Although expats come with their families and one of the spouses usually is trailing, so split one salary in two, but we still are better off than many other folks here.
Who's "we", paleface?

It's curious to me when those on big salaries are stingy with their hefty disposable income when it comes to getting a round in, especially when those on lesser income are usually quite forthcoming. Funny, that.
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  #46  
Old 11.02.2011, 15:06
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Re: You can't live on less than 70 000 in Switzerland?

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Who's "we", paleface?

It's curious to me when those on big salaries are stingy with their hefty disposable income when it comes to getting a round in, especially when those on lesser income are usually quite forthcoming. Funny, that.
Ah but there's them that do and them that don't and they all know who they are.
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  #47  
Old 11.02.2011, 15:23
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Re: You can't live on less than 70 000 in Switzerland?

When I first came here I was earning 3200 net and living on the Gold Coast and single and it felt fine.
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  #48  
Old 11.02.2011, 15:25
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Re: You can't live on less than 70 000 in Switzerland?

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My wife and I picked up an application form for an apartment yesterday evening.

One section invites the applicants to state their salaries. The tick boxes go as follows:

30 000 - 40 000 ( )
40 000 - 50 000 ( )
50 000 - 60 000 ( )
60 000 - 70 000 ( )
Mehr ( )


You may draw your own conclusions about how normal people live in this country.
You could tick all the boxes, that would confuse them

<ducks>
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  #49  
Old 11.02.2011, 15:26
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Re: You can't live on less than 70 000 in Switzerland?

Does this thread mean we are going to get lots of threads with cleverly written stories complaining but adding humour to the more hated sides of moving?
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  #50  
Old 11.02.2011, 15:28
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Re: You can't live on less than 70 000 in Switzerland?

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Who's "we", paleface?

It's curious to me when those on big salaries are stingy with their hefty disposable income when it comes to getting a round in, especially when those on lesser income are usually quite forthcoming. Funny, that.
Tighter than a badgers arsehole some people. Usually drive Volvo's and go Dutch on every bill, even if it means splitting 10 rappen.

Lets say their circles of friends has got to be pretty small.

I do okay and wouldn't dream of not handing out double vodka's and jager's when the need arises...
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  #51  
Old 11.02.2011, 15:33
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Re: You can't live on less than 70 000 in Switzerland?

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You could tick all the boxes, that would confuse them

<ducks>
Or just tick the ones that add up together.

60,000 to 70,000 plus 40,000 to 50,000 = 100,000 to 120,000. Ta da.
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  #52  
Old 11.02.2011, 15:52
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Re: You can't live on less than 70 000 in Switzerland?

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Being locked out of a rental bracket because I might "make too much" ticks me off also. Why should someone else get to decide the % of my income devoted to putting a roof over my head?
Because someone with a lower income who can't afford somewhere more expensive might also have applied for the place?
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Who's "we", paleface?

It's curious to me when those on big salaries are stingy with their hefty disposable income when it comes to getting a round in, especially when those on lesser income are usually quite forthcoming. Funny, that.
So far, all the EFers I've met have been very generous. However, I feel bad having drinks bought for me because I can't afford to get in whole rounds... But I mostly drink water anyway, health reasons.
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  #53  
Old 11.02.2011, 15:54
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Re: You can't live on less than 70 000 in Switzerland?

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Because someone with a lower income who can't afford somewhere more expensive might also have applied for the place?

So far, all the EFers I've met have been very generous. However, I feel bad having drinks bought for me because I can't afford to get in whole rounds... But I mostly drink water anyway, health reasons.
there, there. scrambled will buy you plenty of drinks.
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  #54  
Old 11.02.2011, 16:24
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Re: You can't live on less than 70 000 in Switzerland?

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Because someone with a lower income who can't afford somewhere more expensive might also have applied for the place?

So far, all the EFers I've met have been very generous. However, I feel bad having drinks bought for me because I can't afford to get in whole rounds... But I mostly drink water anyway, health reasons.
Well as a pure measure it's a bad idea, I have to cover property costs in the UK too and various other crap, even though I can like a lot of expats tick the last box.

So it takes no consideration of "disposable income"

I'll buy you a drink (I think I must have done with the amounts of shots I've bought in the past) and I couldn't care less what comes back it's not about the drink coming back it's about enjoying someones company.

It's about the place the time and the beer. You surely remember MikeyB's birthday a few years ago in Zug for example.

Treat people well and when you land in the shite they'll return that beer when you most need it and more besides. Well if you have any faith in human nature
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Old 11.02.2011, 16:24
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Re: You can't live on less than 70 000 in Switzerland?

Quote:
My wife and I picked up an application form for an apartment yesterday evening.

One section invites the applicants to state their salaries. The tick boxes go as follows:

30 000 - 40 000 ( )
40 000 - 50 000 ( )
50 000 - 60 000 ( )
60 000 - 70 000 ( )
Mehr ( )


You may draw your own conclusions about how normal people live in this country.
According to the last option, with their sheep?
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  #56  
Old 11.02.2011, 16:29
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Re: You can't live on less than 70 000 in Switzerland?

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When I first came here I was earning 3200 net and living on the Gold Coast and single and it felt fine.
When I first came here I used my depleted credit card and waited für my first pay check. Luckily advance came like from heaven

Now, I'm living in a castle with walls tiled by 100francs notes and surrounded by moat full of CHF5 coins

Now, excuse me: I must touch paint bootspoiler on my Veyron!

Last edited by jacek; 11.02.2011 at 16:41.
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  #57  
Old 11.02.2011, 16:55
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Re: You can't live on less than 70 000 in Switzerland?

Last I heard, the average family income in Switzerland is around 65'000 Fr. before tax. Go figure.

I don't work in finance (I'm an IT guy, working for a public institution), so I'm not making anywhere near 120k, either, but together with my wife (who is a Gymansium teacher and paid rather handsomely), I really can't complain. However, having studied here and lived on 17-20 grand for my first 5 years away from home, I know it's tough but it's doable. Of course, that was 10 years ago and prices have gone up considerably since then. I'd say for a family, around 50 thousand would be the absolute minimum to have a semi-decent life here.

We should all keep in mind that many (if not most) of us here not only make a bit more than the average Swiss, we make a crapload more. Next time we interact with unfriendly clerks at the railway station, with stressed-out Migros cashiers etc., let's keep that in mind. Also, perhaps this is a good starting point to think about our boasting habits (cars (can I live with a BMW or does it have to be a Lincoln Navigator?), boats, 10 grand vacation to the caribbean, asking "can I possibly survive on a 110'000 Fr. starting salary here or am I being cheated" etc. Doesn't mean we shouldn't enjoy our standard of living, but perhaps we can keep it private)

Peter
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  #58  
Old 11.02.2011, 17:20
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Re: You can't live on less than 70 000 in Switzerland?

Absolutely - a bit of sensitive discretion wouldn't go amiss sometimes.
Yet again, there is a huge regional element re how far money will stretch -
Zurich, Geneva, Montreux for instance are VERY expensive- others are cheaper, and some are much cheaper. Here in the Jura you could live like a King on that and own a very nice house indeed.
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  #59  
Old 11.02.2011, 17:24
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Re: You can't live on less than 70 000 in Switzerland?

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... And I am really happy that there is not such a massive divide in this country, that we are not yet at a stage where people have to have two jobs to make ends meets.
I am not too happy about the fact that it is damn hard to actually find 2nd or 3rd jobs. Wish those were possible. To make them impossible puts some people in poverty.

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In my opinion, expats generally have higher salaries but then there are also some expat expenses that can't be gotten around either. When comparing the average swiss to an expat it is not comparable in my view, like apples vs. oranges.

For example, in my little village, most of the swiss live in multigenerational homes/farms or they inherited it from their ancestors, ie. they don't pay rent nor a mortgage. Or they live in the same apt. for 30 years with still 1970s prices. They also don't have any childcare expenses nor schooling issues. The grandparents, aunts, cousins all help out to work around the school holidays, school hours, etc. They often work in close proximity, thus minimal commuting costs. Someone is always home to cook and clean, thus no eating out expenses nor paying for services. I also find bartering or non-monetary exchanges are used quite often in CH, ie. I will plow your driveway if you cut my hedge.

Thus, if most expats had such infrastrastructure, all could live on 50,000 chf or less. However, the reality is that most do not have such same infrastructure and available resources as many locals do.
This is it, thanks runningdeer. You nailed it.

While locals might have lower income, they might have better living status and save more, since they have the entire infrastructure (and it is not only families on hand, circle of friends who chip in and trade favors, but also institutions who do give preferential treatments in terms of places in schools, daycare and nannies) available. I am not saying it is always like that, mostly isn't, but sometimes it is. If we had a family to help with child care or other things (most local friends I have don't pay rent since they live at parents former house or a place their parents bought for them or put the down payment on for them) we would roughly save 5000fr a month, which makes good 60 000fr a year.

Trailing spouses have their working opportunities way more limited, even if they are happy to have found something little, I don't know many who pull off 100% employment for decent cash. Even the jobs that one does pull off as a foreigner, is often underpaid, at some fields. I have met expats who were outsourced and came here thinking they will be macking just to realize they are shortchanged since this place is evily overpriced. I have met institutions, schools, afterschool programs, even private nannies who ripped off newcoming expats and laughed their way to the bank.

So, I don't really buy the whole local vs expat whining thing. Of course there are bastids who will rub in their big cash, but in my experience they were both local and expat.
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Last edited by MusicChick; 11.02.2011 at 17:35.
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  #60  
Old 11.02.2011, 17:27
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Re: You can't live on less than 70 000 in Switzerland?

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I don't understand the question... sorry!
Everything is/was in German - I gather English isn't a very commonly spoken language in the town to which we'd like to move.
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You should read inbetween the lines... They usually pull this trick when they want you to integrate badly
What do you mean? They want you to integrate badly. DB is integrating badly already!
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