Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Daily life  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #81  
Old 12.02.2011, 10:44
Uncle Max's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Züri
Posts: 7,553
Groaned at 164 Times in 105 Posts
Thanked 8,424 Times in 3,486 Posts
Uncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: You can't live on less than 70 000 in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post
Yes, that's totally me. Thank God.
So you're just here for the money and not to make the place home?
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Uncle Max for this useful post:
  #82  
Old 12.02.2011, 11:09
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Bern
Posts: 1,421
Groaned at 51 Times in 39 Posts
Thanked 1,742 Times in 719 Posts
simplon has a reputation beyond reputesimplon has a reputation beyond reputesimplon has a reputation beyond reputesimplon has a reputation beyond reputesimplon has a reputation beyond repute
Re: You can't live on less than 70 000 in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post
I understand that expats have higher expectations. Moving here in a completely different culture, changing environment and education system for the kids, maybe wife and/or husband giving up job in home country these are all sacrifices that you need to compensate.
- One way to compensate it is to have a much higher revenue/savings that the average local who did none of these sacrifices.
- It could be that other expats value more the quality of life (landscape, order, clean & safe etc...) here and see it as a compensation.
- Other expats/immigrants value the fact that they have a job if their home country is hit by high unemployment.

Depending on which category you fit in, you'll complain or not about a 70'000chf annual income to answer the question if the move was worth it.
Strange how the world changed in the last twenty years. When I went to work abroad, exactly the same reasons were given to pay you a lower wage. To us working abroad was sold as a rewarding experience and not as a sacrifice. But your reasoning explains the attitude shown of some people in this forum.
Reply With Quote
  #83  
Old 12.02.2011, 11:15
eddiejc1's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Derwood, MD USA
Posts: 1,005
Groaned at 22 Times in 20 Posts
Thanked 684 Times in 372 Posts
eddiejc1 has an excellent reputationeddiejc1 has an excellent reputationeddiejc1 has an excellent reputationeddiejc1 has an excellent reputation
Re: You can't live on less than 70 000 in Switzerland?

Quote:

(The Congo would suit us too, but we can't afford it )
Or is that what you told the missus?

Anyway, good luck finding a new apartment!
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank eddiejc1 for this useful post:
  #84  
Old 12.02.2011, 11:25
Nil's Avatar
Nil Nil is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Basel
Posts: 10,356
Groaned at 428 Times in 333 Posts
Thanked 16,045 Times in 6,322 Posts
Nil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond repute
Re: You can't live on less than 70 000 in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post
Strange how the world changed in the last twenty years. When I went to work abroad, exactly the same reasons were given to pay you a lower wage. To us working abroad was sold as a rewarding experience and not as a sacrifice. But your reasoning explains the attitude shown of some people in this forum.
Twenty years ago most of the job for expats were with an expat life style, with hell lots of financial support and it was a jackpot to get one of those jobs.

Now, having your job relocated abroad doesn't necessary put you in this category. Now, it is what someone has do do to keep having a job. And yes it goes in sacrifice category when one has to give up the job for the other one, when they have to go away from family, friends and support circle for a place they don't know with a salary that doesn't necessary compensated that sacrifice. You do it anyway, why? Because with hope that later on it will gets better, that something will be worthed at the end.

We are not all here because we wanted it, we are not all here by choice but many of us are here by lack of choice, by necessity and because it was the obvious move to do. That doesn't make us see all about here in pink!
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank Nil for this useful post:
  #85  
Old 12.02.2011, 11:31
miss_bean's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 525
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 464 Times in 224 Posts
miss_bean has an excellent reputationmiss_bean has an excellent reputationmiss_bean has an excellent reputationmiss_bean has an excellent reputation
Re: You can't live on less than 70 000 in Switzerland?

It is quite a big overhead to get integrated in a new country.

My below argument may vary depending upon how ''settled'' you are.

1. locals don't have to pay for German classes .
(as an example belingua, of-course there are cheaper options, but on an average)
each level takes around 18 to 20 weeks!

prices 2011 average 300 chf per week.
this would be multiplied by the number of members in the family.
not all companies help in the integration.


2.Various misc charges Driving classes , which they would be already eligible in their home country costs another add on

3. when expats move, there is not an immediate disconnect from the home country. Most have them have to manage mortgages/property, back home too.
An yearly family trip to sort things back home also adds to expats' expenditure.

4. with one person earning, inspite of the good social security system in place, there is always job/ visa renewal insecurity.

5. Many expats due to the insecurity or ''long term invisibility'' are forced to send their kids to expensive ''international'' schools.

6. Not everyone who moves in here works in basic jobs.If not all, some are highly qualified, lead a decent life back home. So if the salary for basic jobs is around 3500.people with professional qualification experience have expectations to earn atleast double than them.

7. like someone mentioned , trailing partner who left behind an established career would also add to the salary expectations. Having no assets here like home, or parents relatives to take care of your kids when needed, also adds to the cost

So the answer to the question if one can live on less than 70 000 in Switzerland?

yes one can. but is it worth the effort of staying away settling down in a new region away from your home country. May be not.
Reply With Quote
The following 8 users would like to thank miss_bean for this useful post:
  #86  
Old 12.02.2011, 11:44
Jaro's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Rafz (ZH)
Posts: 1,317
Groaned at 91 Times in 70 Posts
Thanked 624 Times in 343 Posts
Jaro has a reputation beyond reputeJaro has a reputation beyond reputeJaro has a reputation beyond reputeJaro has a reputation beyond repute
Re: You can't live on less than 70 000 in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post
I think that sums it up well! I guess it is a wrong place to ask question how I could repair a wearing out fabric seat in my BMW (should have bought leather seats instead)?
show off!!!
Reply With Quote
  #87  
Old 12.02.2011, 12:02
jacek's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Aargau
Posts: 8,860
Groaned at 125 Times in 92 Posts
Thanked 6,609 Times in 3,658 Posts
jacek has a reputation beyond reputejacek has a reputation beyond reputejacek has a reputation beyond reputejacek has a reputation beyond reputejacek has a reputation beyond reputejacek has a reputation beyond repute
Re: You can't live on less than 70 000 in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post
show off!!!
Me, nein I'm just trying to stay on topic, "badly"
Reply With Quote
  #88  
Old 12.02.2011, 12:09
economisto
 
Posts: n/a
Re: You can't live on less than 70 000 in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post
So you're just here for the money and not to make the place home?
Nope. There aren't only two options. I don't regard any one place as "home" and never have. Moreover, I'm on a UK-fixed salary in £ and so I'm poorer here than in any other country in the world. There are loads of positives here like the low crime rate (sorry LiB!) and good quality transport system, healthy lifestyle and beautiful scenery. Right now, especially since the 2008 currency drop from 2.1 down to 1.5ish, I'm here for the OH and will be for the next 2 years at least. Right, I'm off to get a £20 pizza.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #89  
Old 12.02.2011, 12:23
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: At home
Posts: 4,167
Groaned at 208 Times in 133 Posts
Thanked 6,403 Times in 2,719 Posts
Faltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond repute
Re: You can't live on less than 70 000 in Switzerland?

Please correct me if I am wrong, as somebody working with expats or in an international school would know better than I, but I have the feeling that more and more people don't really have the choice to go abroad or not: the company decides, or the home labour market is too hard to secure one's future. That come closer to the classic immigration, without the misery and with far better diploma/competences.

But please correct me if I am mistaken, as I wouldn't like to live with misconceptions.

As for the original question, it is an easy one: yes, one can. Now make a new thread to ask how one lives here with 70.000 CHF.
__________________
Es wird nichts ausgelassen, um mich hier herauszuekeln. Ein Lehrbuch. False accusations and attacks continue. There is no stopping righteous people when they are wrong.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Faltrad for this useful post:
  #90  
Old 12.02.2011, 12:58
Uncle Max's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Züri
Posts: 7,553
Groaned at 164 Times in 105 Posts
Thanked 8,424 Times in 3,486 Posts
Uncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: You can't live on less than 70 000 in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post
... I'm here for the OH and will be for the next 2 years at least. Right, I'm off to get a £20 pizza.
I'd reckon that fits into the 'home' category, if it's not under sufferance. Whether or not you chose to make it home is another matter, although why someone wouldn't want to get under the skin of the place in which they live beats me. Perhaps I need to get out to my Casa in Sardinia more often...

[Not wanting this to be an ad hominen, but many do seem to be here purely for the scratch and still feel the need to moan about their life here. <appropriate smiley>]
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Uncle Max for this useful post:
  #91  
Old 12.02.2011, 13:03
economisto
 
Posts: n/a
Re: You can't live on less than 70 000 in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post
I'd reckon that fits into the 'home' category, if it's not under sufferance. Whether or not you chose to make it home is another matter, although why someone wouldn't want to get under the skin of the place in which they live beats me. Perhaps I need to get out to my Casa in Sardinia more often...

[Not wanting this to be an ad hominen, but many do seem to be here purely for the scratch and still feel the need to moan about their life here. <appropriate smiley>]
OK so yeah, absolutely, this is as much of a home as any other, and I like it here on balance. But I have no preceding interest in Switzerland or in the German language the way I do have with Barcelona/Spanish, Cairo/Arabic, French (generally). Also, I work long hours and in my free time I'm very "Italy-facing". I'd much prefer to live in the south of Switzerland from a cultural point of view. Having said that, a good proportion is laziness and lack of necessity on my part, so you have given me food for thought.
Reply With Quote
  #92  
Old 12.02.2011, 13:46
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Zurich
Posts: 4,939
Groaned at 184 Times in 120 Posts
Thanked 8,594 Times in 2,881 Posts
Kittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond repute
Re: You can't live on less than 70 000 in Switzerland?

Economisto - start by trying a "Swiss" pizza - we use Blätterteig (puff pastry) instead of pizza dough - home made. Should come in at quite a lot less than £20 and it tastes really good.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Kittster for this useful post:
  #93  
Old 12.02.2011, 13:55
economisto
 
Posts: n/a
Re: You can't live on less than 70 000 in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post
Economisto - start by trying a "Swiss" pizza - we use Blätterteig (puff pastry) instead of pizza dough - home made. Should come in at quite a lot less than £20 and it tastes really good.
Is this flammkuche? I tried it if it's that - very light and tasty. I'm not blaming Switzerland for the exchange rate though, that's just a facet of my life in particular and nobody's fault.
Reply With Quote
  #94  
Old 12.02.2011, 14:11
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Zurich
Posts: 4,939
Groaned at 184 Times in 120 Posts
Thanked 8,594 Times in 2,881 Posts
Kittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond repute
Re: You can't live on less than 70 000 in Switzerland?

Nah, Flammkuchen is from Elsass. This is something so down to earth, no restaurant will serve it.
Reply With Quote
This user groans at Kittster for this post:
  #95  
Old 12.02.2011, 14:22
economisto
 
Posts: n/a
Re: You can't live on less than 70 000 in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post
no restaurant will serve it.
Then, to be sure, less than £20!
Reply With Quote
  #96  
Old 12.02.2011, 19:23
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: SO
Posts: 158
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 198 Times in 83 Posts
hjj_74 has an excellent reputationhjj_74 has an excellent reputationhjj_74 has an excellent reputationhjj_74 has an excellent reputation
Re: You can't live on less than 70 000 in Switzerland?

Ok, I tried to create a new thread with the title: How CAN an average family live on less than 70k in Switzerland, but for some reason the thread was moved to the trash . During the last hour, it got some nice responses, which may be of value here....

Here is the summary of "trash"....


============================================

OK, let's summarize what we have so far:

Housing/Rent
  • Don't rent something in the most expensive uptown part of your region. Drive around the most interesting neighbourhoods until you find a region where kids are playing outside after school. Jot down these regions, and then look for the good appartments for rent.
  • Quote:
    View Post
    Rent around Zurich was hard to find under 2000chf but when we arrived we had a short-term lease that was originally 6 months (how naieve were we!) but was extended to nearly 3 years, and it was a 5.5 room apartment for 1550chf a month. There was the inevitable nebenkosten adjustment of about 150chf a month, and we lived with a washing roster with 10 days in between but we survived. Being a stay-at-home mum made it possible to shop better, cook better, and wash better, than when trying to juggle work and home...
  • Quote:
    View Post
    Rent a place with whitegoods (fridge, washing machine, dryer) so if they break down it will be the landlord who has to pay for them!
Communication / Internet
  • Quote:
    View Post
  • pre-paid mobile phone (no surprise bills and keeps you very aware of the costs).
    bundled internet with phone, no cable tv (actually, we don't have a tV at all!)
Insurance (medical / other)
  • Quote:
    View Post
    Medical insurance - shop around and only get the basic. Pay the lowest franchise so you don't get any unexpected bills.


Daily expenses (grocery, clothing, etc)
  • Quote:
    View Post
    Shop at Aldi (Lidl is evil). Just got a like new Barbour coat at Salvation Army for 18 bucks. There are ways .
  • Quote:
    View Post
    I've never been to Aldi in Switzerland but I find Denner to be very good! Try the Gorgonzola and wild smoked salmon - better than Coop.
  • Quote:
    View Post
    Denner's Paprika Chicken Wings are delicious , around CHF3.80 for 6
  • Quote:
    View Post
    Second hand clothing for the kids from the various 'KinderKleiderBorse' - ie second hand shops... I got a baby sleeping bag for the pram, down-filled, waterproof, for 8chf, new would cost maybe 100chf.

    Eat a lot of potatoes, fresh salad and dairy products. We started out buying meat no more than 20chf a kilo - now I know I can get mince from Denner for 10chf a kilo at times, frozen chicken for no more than 15chf a kilo, and we do a lot more 'fancy' cooking at home...

    We've lived here without a car for over 2 years now...the kids are much fitter than they were when we arrived...
Kids schooling / Education
  • Quote:
    View Post
    And of course the kids will be in standard Swiss school. Otherwise most of the net of that 70K goes to school.
  • Swiss school is indeed free with no hidden costs.
Free time / Hobbies / weekend trips / holidays
  • Quote:
    View Post
    There is definitely a 'dual' system, and cheap vs. expensive options. The local swimming pool costs 5chf a visit for adults, ice skating at the dolder if you have your own (second hand) skates is less than 10chf a trip, and the kids can do a 'winter season' of lessons each week for I think 230chf.

    I found a holiday house in the Jura with a two bedroom apartment for 120chf a night, sleeps 5-6 people. That's cheap by swiss standards - the youth hostels vary a lot in price, but we paid I think 160chf a night for a bedroom with ensuite that sleeps 6, with breakfast and dinner included each day...
    In the summer, zurich offers a holiday 'ticket' for kids which from memory costs 20chf and gets you into places like the zoo for free!
  • Quote:
    View Post
    Use the Gemeindetageskarte for special trips and visitors - 35-45chf for a day's travel anywhere in switzerland.
    Always take a picnic, never buy at the 'kiosk' or restaurants.
Trailing spouse tips
  • Quote:
    View Post
    Cut down on the helicopters and try to freelance for one of the virtual law/paralegal firms - this should be rather flexible re the work hours and should bring in a few bucks, too. Check the tax impact first - a few threads on this are on this forum.
If I can keep up with the posts, I will try to update summaries like this.
Reply With Quote
The following 7 users would like to thank hjj_74 for this useful post:
  #97  
Old 12.02.2011, 19:29
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 32,496
Groaned at 2,577 Times in 1,840 Posts
Thanked 39,636 Times in 18,680 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: You can't live on less than 70 000 in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post
Nah, Flammkuchen is from Elsass. This is something so down to earth, no restaurant will serve it.
Sorry, but "tarte flambee (flammekuechen)" is a staple in our home!

The 6cm thick stone in my gas-grill-converted-to -pizza-oven was purchased in Alsace!

Tom
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post:
  #98  
Old 12.02.2011, 20:17
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Zurich
Posts: 4,939
Groaned at 184 Times in 120 Posts
Thanked 8,594 Times in 2,881 Posts
Kittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond repute
Re: You can't live on less than 70 000 in Switzerland?

I'm not talking of Flammkuchen!
Reply With Quote
  #99  
Old 13.02.2011, 14:13
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Santiago, Chile
Posts: 33
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
kdreesen has no particular reputation at present
Re: You can't live on less than 70 000 in Switzerland?

Very practical thread. Living trade secrets someone like myself, preparing to move to Switzerland with a family of four, can benefit from enormously.

I live in Chile. Every year I contract teachers from the States for my language school. When they get down here, it´s like they speak a different language; what they have heard about Chile from friends or acquaintances in the States is way off base: where they should live, shop, etc. And during their first few weeks down here I provide them with a series of living/standard of living/cost of living insights I have acquired after living many years in Chile. Of course, first I listen to what they want, but I also know how much they will make, so it´s easier to reduce their life style choices to a certain segment of society.

Hope people continue to provide their living insights.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank kdreesen for this useful post:
  #100  
Old 13.02.2011, 15:30
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: vaud
Posts: 9
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
golddust has no particular reputation at present
Re: You can't live on less than 70 000 in Switzerland?

they have these salary brackets because most of the general public gets social aid for the house rent and medical insurance its the people who are invisible to expats like the cleaners, factory workers etc.etc. life is very tough here for the lower class even the middle class has tough time with taxes
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
normal people, real world, spoilt expats, stinking rich




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Is 100,000 CHF enough to live on in Switzerland? mn12345 Other/general 30 12.01.2011 01:17
The $6.000.000 kitty Traubert Pet corner 9 25.06.2010 13:34


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 16:57.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0