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  #101  
Old 13.02.2011, 16:33
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Re: You can't live on less than 70 000 in Switzerland?

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most of the general public gets social aid for the house rent and medical insurance
uhmm what? Nobody gets aid for his or her rent and in order to qualify for medical insurance aid, you have to make less than 25k per year. About 2% of der general population falls under that category.

Peter
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  #102  
Old 13.02.2011, 16:45
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Re: You can't live on less than 70 000 in Switzerland?

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uhmm what? Nobody gets aid for his or her rent and in order to qualify for medical insurance aid, you have to make less than 25k per year. About 2% of der general population falls under that category.

Peter
well they count number of children as well and people earning as much as 50k per year also get them i know caz i have been through the social aid cycle thank god i am out of it
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  #103  
Old 13.02.2011, 16:49
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Re: You can't live on less than 70 000 in Switzerland?

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they have these salary brackets because most of the general public gets social aid for the house rent and medical insurance its the people who are invisible to expats like the cleaners, factory workers etc.etc. life is very tough here for the lower class even the middle class has tough time with taxes
I know for a fact that the cut-off rate for individual incomes is 25'000, at least where I've lived so far (Basel, Baselland, Thurgau). 50'000 would be for two people, both working full time. And there's definitely no help for rent, unless you're on social security, and in that case they don't just give you money for the apartment of your choice, they'll typically provide you with a "Sozialwohnung" (e.g. an apartment belonging to the state).
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  #104  
Old 13.02.2011, 18:39
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Re: You can't live on less than 70 000 in Switzerland?

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uhmm what? Nobody gets aid for his or her rent and in order to qualify for medical insurance aid, you have to make less than 25k per year. About 2% of der general population falls under that category.
The cut off income for help is 60k in Zurich. In Zug 80k. Curious about qualifying, my colleague and I looked it up this week.

Now is the time to apply for that health insurance subsidy. We just got the reminder and application form.

Many, many people struggle to pay their bills here despite being in paid work. Look at the outrage when Billag changed to a yearly bill and January must be a hard time for many with insurances payable now it's provisional taxes time. A Zug newpaper published an article a few years ago about the working poor living in Zug. http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/Home/Arc...ml?cid=4535782

Also: http://www.swissworld.org/en/economy...erity/poverty/

Thanks to low interest rates at the moment, we live on way less than CHF 70000 a year. Anything saved gets invested for the future.
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  #105  
Old 13.02.2011, 18:44
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Re: You can't live on less than 70 000 in Switzerland?

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The cut off income for help is 60k in Zurich. In Zug 80k. Curious about qualifying, my colleague and I looked it up this week.
80k? Please send me a link so that I can read up on that. Considering the fact, that around 90% of the Swiss families make substantially less than 80k per year, I just can't believe that number could possibly be right. Even the 60 for Zurich seem massively too high. My brother just applied for aid and they told him he doesn't qualify - he makes around 28'000 before taxes.

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  #106  
Old 13.02.2011, 18:45
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Re: You can't live on less than 70 000 in Switzerland?

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80k? Please send me a link so that I can read up on that. Considering the fact, that around 90% of the Swiss families make substantially less than 80k per year, I just can't believe that number could possibly be right. Even the 60 for Zurich seem massively too high. My brother just applied for aid and they told him he doesn't qualify - he makes around 28'000 before taxes.
http://www.akzug.ch/dynamic/page.asp?seiid=27 There's a online calculator to see if you qualify too.
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  #107  
Old 13.02.2011, 18:53
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Re: You can't live on less than 70 000 in Switzerland?

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http://www.akzug.ch/dynamic/page.asp?seiid=27 There's a online calculator to see if you qualify too.
I just checked using the calculator - the cut-off line is somewhere around 40'000 Fr. (Reineinkommen - that's before taxes / social deductions. 40'000 Fr. Reineinkommen translates into perhaps 25'000 Fr. after deductions), if you don't pay into the 3rd column and don't have any assets whatsoever.

Here's the definition of Reineinkommen:

http://www.lustat.ch/index/infothek/...503&suche=true

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  #108  
Old 13.02.2011, 18:59
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Re: You can't live on less than 70 000 in Switzerland?

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I just checked using the calculator - the cut-off line is somewhere around 40'000 Fr. (Reineinkommen - that's before taxes / social deductions. 40'000 Fr. Reineinkommen translates into perhaps 25'000 Fr. after deductions), if you don't pay into the 3rd column and don't have any assets whatsoever.

Here's the definition of Reineinkommen:

http://www.lustat.ch/index/infothek/...503&suche=true
According to the calculator, 79k Salary (Brutto/before any deductions) with 2 kids having both paid into your 3rd Pillar you get around Fr. 1'656. That was with zero assets. With 20k assets, fr. 1'576.
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  #109  
Old 13.02.2011, 19:03
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Re: You can't live on less than 70 000 in Switzerland?

From that article, an answer to a question I posed a while ago about the number of foreigners living either as "working poor" - those in employment but living below the poverty line - or those completely down on their luck without any employment. The poverty line is CHF2200 for an individual, CHF4600 for a family with two children.

"The population groups who were over-represented in the figures included children in single-parent families or with many siblings, and young adults with no professional qualifications. Foreign residents, who often fall into both these categories, accounted for 43.8% of those drawing benefits."


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  #110  
Old 13.02.2011, 19:04
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Re: You can't live on less than 70 000 in Switzerland?

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On 79k Salary (Brutto/before any deductions) with 2 kids having both paid into your 3rd Pillar you get around Fr. 1'656.
I'm not claiming anything else - we're just not talking about the same type of income. I'm talking about taxable income, you're using the Reineinkommen.

79k translates into about 60k taxable, I'd say. Which is about 5k below average for Switzerland, so it's no surprise that you qualify. On a single income, the cut-off is at around 25k (taxable), for a family with kids it is (deservedly) a bit higher.
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  #111  
Old 13.02.2011, 19:13
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Re: You can't live on less than 70 000 in Switzerland?

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A Zug newpaper published an article a few years ago about the working poor living in Zug. http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/Home/Arc...ml?cid=4535782
An excellent read, which lead me to look up an organisation which helps the poor with food handouts: www.tischlein.ch

From the above linked article:

"The people in the queue watch millionaires’ yachts bobbing in the nearby lake, as they wait for their numbers to be called...

People are considered to be poor as soon as they earn less than 50 per cent of the average net salary for the country they live in. The charity estimates that 850,000 people live below the poverty line, despite having a range of social benefits at their disposal...

About 250 million kilograms of edible food are destroyed in Switzerland every year. If this could be passed on instead to those living below the bread line, each of them would receive one kilo of food per day...

Tischlein deck dich tries to save as much of the condemned food as possible for the people who need it most..."
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  #112  
Old 13.02.2011, 21:08
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Re: You can't live on less than 70 000 in Switzerland?

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People are considered to be poor as soon as they earn less than 50 per cent of the average net salary for the country they live in. The charity estimates that 850,000 people live below the poverty line, despite having a range of social benefits at their disposal...
Most Swiss people including myself believe that you must not ask for any kind of social benefit unless you really have no other way out. Use up your savings first, cut back on everything, just don't go knocking on the door of the "Sozialamt". It shocks me deeply when I read of people who seem thrilled to have been laid off work as they can benefit from a fairly well paid holiday at the state's expense.

Last edited by Kittster; 13.02.2011 at 21:48.
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  #113  
Old 13.02.2011, 21:39
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Re: You can't live on less than 70 000 in Switzerland?

An observation from John Maloney at a stand up comedy show last week hit one nail on the head:

"£10 a month donation to look after a puppy? Ahh, no problem. What a cute puppy. What? Another £10 for a poor child? Can't afford that, I'm already paying for a puppy. Hey, kid, stop crying! You're upsetting the puppy..."
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  #114  
Old 14.02.2011, 09:08
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Re: You can't live on less than 70 000 in Switzerland?

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.... Anything saved gets invested for the future.
I think this is the mindset that makes people survive on less than others...the fact that sometimes in the past they actually thought about this and got ready.

Btw, the puppy ones that live on very little in this country, sometimes make their own bed. It's hard to tell young people that sometimes they have unproductive and expensive habits, smoking, surviving on big macs and red bulls. I think they should be taught how to save and live planning at least 10 years ahead, not one week. Invest in schooling, put some cash away, especially if they cannot rely on parents helping them out. It's amazing to see some coming from nothing but making it big, and then some coming from big cash being completely useless later on.
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  #115  
Old 14.02.2011, 14:20
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Re: You can't live on less than 70 000 in Switzerland?

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Most Swiss people including myself believe that you must not ask for any kind of social benefit unless you really have no other way out. Use up your savings first, cut back on everything, just don't go knocking on the door of the "Sozialamt". It shocks me deeply when I read of people who seem thrilled to have been laid off work as they can benefit from a fairly well paid holiday at the state's expense.
I think it depends on the definition of "social benefit". In general I would agree that I wouldn't accept money from the Sozialamt unless absolutely necessary. Also, I work a lot of hours/week in order to get my salary in, of which a substantial part goes directly to the Steueramt. Then again, I am very happy with the monthly "childmoney" which in our region is a very substantial CHF 220 /child. In the end, the source of the money is the same (taxes), so where does one draw the line?

In my view, I would draw the line in how much I work, how much I earn and therefore give back to community as taxes, and how much "help" I draw from the social benefits. If all is well, I pay more taxes than I get as social benefit, and I am proud of it.

Then again, there are some "social benefits" that are really making life easier for almost everyone. For example, we like to visit musea. The Museums pass gives you free access to many many musea from Karlsruhe (DE) to Mullhouse (FR) right into Basel and northern Switzerland, for just CHF 98 /adult/year, and kids free. With another "social benefit" (Familienpass Basel), for 2 adults and 5 kids the price is even CHF 165 /2adults+5kids/year. That means after 3 visits to the Foundation Beyeler you are even. As a result, our kids love to go to musea.
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  #116  
Old 14.02.2011, 14:34
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Re: You can't live on less than 70 000 in Switzerland?

Sure, family reductions, help with paying your insurance if you really struggle with the full sum due (would be 20% of my income at the current rate), this is a bit different, it's not "freeloading".
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Old 14.02.2011, 15:00
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Re: You can't live on less than 70 000 in Switzerland?

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You may draw your own conclusions about how normal people live in this country.
Hi

This is just a table. If your income in Switzerland is more than CHF 70,000.00 than you are regarded as a "high-income" person. You will not be entitled to any additional benefits such as price deductions, if you apply, for instance, for the lunch table for your kids etc.

All the best

Romi
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  #118  
Old 14.02.2011, 17:22
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Re: You can't live on less than 70 000 in Switzerland?

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About 250 million kilograms of edible food are destroyed in Switzerland every year. If this could be passed on instead to those living below the bread line, each of them would receive one kilo of food per day...
I cooked a yam stew last night - but used cayenne pepper powder in stead of paprika - 4 tsp worth - for a 1.2kg yam.

I'm not sure your average Swissy would appreciate the "flavour". I could get arrested
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  #119  
Old 14.02.2011, 20:56
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Re: You can't live on less than 70 000 in Switzerland?

This is what I think about poor or rich. Your rich if your mum is poor but has a good sense of nutrition. Your rich if money is scarce but your parents love each other and their offspring. Your rich if your parents inject a sense of pride into you.

Your rich if you know who will tuck you up that night and what story you can demand.

Your rich if you wake up in the night and the same safe person comes to tuck you back in.

Your rich if your butties are no better or worse than the next kid on your school trip.

Your rich, if you can remember the things that made your tummy squiggle in contentment when you where a kid.

Rich is not feeling different to everyone around you.

Rich is not feeling poor.
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  #120  
Old 14.02.2011, 20:58
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Re: You can't live on less than 70 000 in Switzerland?

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I cooked a yam stew last night - but used cayenne pepper powder in stead of paprika - 4 tsp worth - for a 1.2kg yam.

I'm not sure your average Swissy would appreciate the "flavour". I could get arrested
I don't think the pepper police has established itself yet Ken.
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