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  #21  
Old 12.03.2011, 16:52
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Re: When your prices kill your own market.

I don't think that the Swiss can lower their prices because of overheads. However we shopped around and found reasonable prices. We had a great mechanic (Meienberg) who did everything and his prices were good. I went back to visit him but he had left the area.

We would never go to a German mechanic,the only thing that we shopped in Germany for were basics like flour, milk, meat.the rest -cheese. yoghurt bread etc. we bought Swiss. Also we would occasionally go to restaurant like the Poseiden ( Greek ) in Konstanz

From time to time I have to price services such as reflooring, repainting etc. I priced everything with German and the local contractors- the Swiss were cheaper and quality excellent. I guess that is where I stay Swiss, all the work has to be certified to stand up to inspection. I just bought a new washing machine I got a V-Zug Adorra 55 sl dishwasher fitted for SFr 2,223. I know every contractor in my village on an almost personal basis- our kids went to school etc. They understand who can afford what, they need to keep a wide -cross section of customers.


I would say shop around and get on friendly terms.
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  #22  
Old 12.03.2011, 16:53
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Re: When your prices kill your own market.

Had this conversation with my brother recently (a student in Ireland and I'm a student here). He was absolutely amazed at the costs.

We figured your basic things like food, shelter, clothes, transport (public), beer are about 25% higher in Fribourg than in Dublin (which is considered a fairly expensive city). Of course this would change with a better exchange rate but just to give us a rough idea.

25% is a fairly large amount but when you consider that the minimum wage in Ireland is €7.65 (~10chf) and €15 here (~20chf, no official minimum wage but thats what I get) things no longer seem so expensive.

Obviously the more labour intensive the work, the bigger the price difference though.
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  #23  
Old 12.03.2011, 18:08
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Re: When your prices kill your own market.

It is not a secret that Switzerland in general is one of the most expensive countries in the world, with Zurich and Geneva topping the charts of expensive cities (according to Mercer, world-wide chart toppers are: Luanda, Tokyo, Chad, Moscow and Russia, Zurich is 8th, with London in 17th full charts are here).

As Hoppy says - lowering prices would implies lowering overhead, and that is not possible in the short term. Add to that the fact that - perhaps shopping on the other side of the border is possible in Geneva and Basel... but for the rest of Switzerland, it cannot happen on a regular basis, so we are still prisoners of the high prices.
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  #24  
Old 12.03.2011, 18:21
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Re: When your prices kill your own market.

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Things are changing, one cannot denied this. And if until now it wasn't a problem, maybe this is becoming one.
This is not a new thing thought. It fluctuates with the exchange rate, strength of economies, etc. Back in the 80s or so my BIL bought just about all the materials to build his CH house in Italy. In the 90s/00s it was no longer feasible to do this. Now, it might be feasible to buy some of the stuff in Italy but not all. Again, it fluctuates.

Also when I was living in Lausanne the E/CHF rate wasn't what it was today. For me it didn't make any sense to drive to France to do my food shopping. Many people did, but they liked to ignore the cost of petrol, wear & tear, time, spoilage, etc in their food shopping comparisons. It really only made sense if you had a large family and ate a lot of meat. Today, with the exchange rate I think even we would make saving driving over the border.

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Friends who ask me "..and how are the prices in switzerland??" I replay -It cost the same that in mexico, but in swiss francs- Meaning that if something you buy there for 10 pesos it costs here chf 10, only that the 1chf=13mxp.

It is not a joke, i have make many comparisons, just an example is a normal and cheap brand of make up very used in mexico is NYX and the other day I was at Glatt zentrum and found this brand and I saw the prices and an eye pencil normally costing in mexico 15 pesos, here it was 14 chf
What's more important is not the absolute price of the item but what is the % of income spent for that item (or the average person spends for that item). Plus, you're not really going to fly to Mexico to buy make up are you? lol.

For us here in Argentina the fact is that everything costs MORE as a % of our salary than when we were in CH, never mind the 25% inflation.
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  #25  
Old 12.03.2011, 18:34
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Re: When your prices kill your own market.

For us it is the same distance to shop in France or CH - so going over the border makes sense. Petrol and other costs have to be taken into account as you say. Especially as you are limited in what you can bring, eg 150CHF per person (adult) per crossing, and can't bring more than 500gr of meat per person- so you can't go over and do a huge monthly shop.
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  #26  
Old 12.03.2011, 18:42
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Re: When your prices kill your own market.

"quality"?? Just what is Swiss quality? Name anything that one normally buys in a weekly shop where quality justifies the much higher price. I just don't get it.

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OK so what you're saying is true for expatriates, not for Swiss people. I think there are relatively few "Swiss plates" in Germany over the weekend and those that are probably live in Basel. It has been my experience that Swiss people assess quality by price, have intense scepticism about what might be going on in the next valley/canton/country, and generally don't look for a bargain. This doesn't mean they're rich, but just have a different mentality. For example, an expat might say "right, I need a car, so I'll import it from Denmark, insure it under a British deal and fix it in France. Go on Ricardo to find winter tyres etc. If a Swiss person can't walk into his nearest dealership and purchase a car at sticker price, he can't afford a car and will take a tram.
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  #27  
Old 12.03.2011, 18:44
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Re: When your prices kill your own market.

In Germany you get 19% taxes back which makes a big difference.
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  #28  
Old 12.03.2011, 18:44
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"quality"?? Just what is Swiss quality? Name anything that one normally buys in a weekly shop where quality justifies the much higher price. I just don't get it.
lol no, I didn't say that Switzerland has better quality products. I said that Swiss people assess quality by price. In other words, if a product costs a lot, a Swiss person assumes it must be good. It's why Swiss people don't shop in Denner.

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In Germany you get 19% taxes back which makes a big difference.
Aren't you meant to pay them on the way in again?
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  #29  
Old 12.03.2011, 18:52
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Re: When your prices kill your own market.

It depends on the product. I do not buy meat in France because of standards being lower with regard to welfare, additives, feed quality and because a lot of it is Halal (without it being indicated on label). Much prefer to eat less but better reared meat, even if more expensive. Coop and Migros do have much better standards with regard to welfare, but also the environment in general. They work closely with the WWF, to cut down on all sorts of environmentally damaging products.

When we bought mattresses in France we got the the 20% TVA taken off, but then we had to declare them at the Swiss customs and pay the 8.6% and had to fill the proper forms.
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  #30  
Old 12.03.2011, 18:54
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Re: When your prices kill your own market.

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Aren't you meant to pay them on the way in again?


If you do your grocery on the German side, they give you a custom form you fill your adresss in. At the border, they stamp it and at your next visit, you go back to the store and they refund you the taxes.

For big purchase it is a bit different. If you buy a TV for 400 euro, you get 19% taxe back from germany, but since it is up to 300chf, you'll have to pay the taxe in Switzerland. So they will calculate the swiss price of your euro one and convert the taxe and pay the difference.

But when doing a grocery, and when under 300 chf, you don't have to pay any taxes to the swiss custom.
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  #31  
Old 12.03.2011, 19:02
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Re: When your prices kill your own market.

Higher prices in CH have less to do with overheads than with monopoly power of suppliers. If they let WalMart come in, Migros and Coop won't survive for 6 months with their current prices. The Aldi near where I live is packed every time I pass by - with cars waiting to get into the parking lot.

Swiss consumers have been brainwashed for generations to think that higher prices imply higher quality, and most of them don't know any better...
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  #32  
Old 12.03.2011, 19:05
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Re: When your prices kill your own market.

If better control on husbandry, feeds, additives, welfare, slaughter, environmental protection, etc- are not signs of better quality- what is?
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  #33  
Old 12.03.2011, 19:08
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Re: When your prices kill your own market.

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Higher prices in CH have less to do with overheads than with monopoly power of suppliers. If they let WalMart come in, Migros and Coop won't survive for 6 months with their current prices. The Aldi near where I live is packed every time I pass by - with cars waiting to get into the parking lot.

Swiss consumers have been brainwashed for generations to think that higher prices imply higher quality, and most of them don't know any better...
In the last three years I saw the price going down in Migros and Coop, especially with the opening of Aldi, Lidl, etc.
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Old 12.03.2011, 19:11
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Re: When your prices kill your own market.

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It depends on the product. I do not buy meat in France because of standards being lower with regard to welfare, additives, feed quality and because a lot of it is Halal (without it being indicated on label).
Out of curiosity, why is this a problem?
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  #35  
Old 12.03.2011, 19:12
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Re: When your prices kill your own market.

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If better control on husbandry, feeds, additives, welfare, slaughter, environmental protection, etc- are not signs of better quality- what is?
Certainly not having to cook it for 12 hours in my slow cooker in order to make it easier to chew.
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  #36  
Old 12.03.2011, 19:16
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Re: When your prices kill your own market.

The lady who lives downstairs who is 90 years old and is neither rich but Swiss and lived her all her life does not share that view, also neither does her daughter or grand daughters, who recently have started their working life.

We also know about 6 other Swiss people quite well and they also are not that way inclined but they have jobs which do not pay that well compared to others. In fact one of them complains that the influx of foreigners is forcing them out of Geneva.

Just because Switzerland has had a good run for it's money does not mean it will stay that way and the world is changing at such a rapid rate now. With companies looking to lower costs, trust me some change is inevitable.

Yes, I shop abroad but then I bring money in from outside of Switzerland but still spend some here, so I believe I am truly International. After all the job I came here for got off shored so why not.

Like a lot of other people here, I do not earn a fortune and I want to make the best use of it, it is a precious resource, easy to spend and hard to aquire, especially after you have dealt with all those orange slips.
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Old 12.03.2011, 19:18
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Re: When your prices kill your own market.

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Since not everyone own a 120 000 chf annual salary here in Switzerland, and since the price for everything is so high, I was wondering how this can help or affect Switzerland's population in general...

Since our move here, I got the feeling and came to the conclusion that having to spend so much for a product you can buy half the price the other side of the border doesn't help the country but it push people to do so.

The amount of Swiss plates in Germany all the week and especially during the weekend shows it very well.

Today, we had to bring the car to the garage. Hubby went to the neighbourhood one to ask how much would cost those few things to fix. They told us 1000 chf.

He went to Weil Am Rhein and asked the same thing there: 240 Chf.

Which one do you think we will choose to fix our car?

Now let me ask you something, is the job would be different? Nope. Is the service will be better with the swiss price? Nope. So why someone would one to support a system that charge you 3 times the price of the guy next door? If we were living on millions, I wouldn't care. But sadly, we aren't.

Wouldn't be in the best interest of the population of Switzerland to be more competitive with his neightbours to provide them more work and more $$$?

Because even among the Swiss population, so many go to the other side of the border for grocery shopping, cars, household items, restaurants, etc.

If the prices were cheaper here, they would keep the money here which would be more money in everybody's pocket.

Nil

The Swiss are very patriotic, they are one of the only groups of people on this planet that will pay more for something that is Swiss (even over 50% more) than a product that is non-swiss you will probably find that is why this little country thrives..
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  #38  
Old 12.03.2011, 19:19
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Re: When your prices kill your own market.

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lol no, I didn't say that Switzerland has better quality products. I said that Swiss people assess quality by price. In other words, if a product costs a lot, a Swiss person assumes it must be good. It's why Swiss people don't shop in Denner.
So not true. Yes, they do.
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  #39  
Old 12.03.2011, 19:23
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Re: When your prices kill your own market.

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The Swiss are very patriotic, they are one of the only groups of people on this planet that will pay more for something that is Swiss (even over 50% more) than a product that is non-swiss you will probably find that is why this little country thrives..
I'll tell you a little secret:

The swiss garage employee is german...

The german garage owner is his father.

But shhhhhhhut! Let's not say it out loud!
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  #40  
Old 12.03.2011, 19:24
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Re: When your prices kill your own market.

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Out of curiosity, why is this a problem?
Not the place here for this discussion. I feel strongly that as a customer I should have the choice, and should know about it if it is Halal.
I am surprised about your ??? as you must be aware that this is a very controversial issue.
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