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Old 12.03.2011, 13:18
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When your prices kill your own market.

Since not everyone own a 120 000 chf annual salary here in Switzerland, and since the price for everything is so high, I was wondering how this can help or affect Switzerland's population in general...

Since our move here, I got the feeling and came to the conclusion that having to spend so much for a product you can buy half the price the other side of the border doesn't help the country but it push people to do so.

The amount of Swiss plates in Germany all the week and especially during the weekend shows it very well.

Today, we had to bring the car to the garage. Hubby went to the neighbourhood one to ask how much would cost those few things to fix. They told us 1000 chf.

He went to Weil Am Rhein and asked the same thing there: 240 Chf.

Which one do you think we will choose to fix our car?

Now let me ask you something, is the job would be different? Nope. Is the service will be better with the swiss price? Nope. So why someone would one to support a system that charge you 3 times the price of the guy next door? If we were living on millions, I wouldn't care. But sadly, we aren't.

Wouldn't be in the best interest of the population of Switzerland to be more competitive with his neightbours to provide them more work and more $$$?

Because even among the Swiss population, so many go to the other side of the border for grocery shopping, cars, household items, restaurants, etc.

If the prices were cheaper here, they would keep the money here which would be more money in everybody's pocket.

Nil

Last edited by Nil; 12.03.2011 at 13:50.
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Old 12.03.2011, 13:23
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Re: When your prices kill your own market.

OK so what you're saying is true for expatriates, not for Swiss people. I think there are relatively few "Swiss plates" in Germany over the weekend and those that are probably live in Basel. It has been my experience that Swiss people assess quality by price, have intense scepticism about what might be going on in the next valley/canton/country, and generally don't look for a bargain. This doesn't mean they're rich, but just have a different mentality. For example, an expat might say "right, I need a car, so I'll import it from Denmark, insure it under a British deal and fix it in France. Go on Ricardo to find winter tyres etc. If a Swiss person can't walk into his nearest dealership and purchase a car at sticker price, he can't afford a car and will take a tram.
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Old 12.03.2011, 13:24
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Re: When your prices kill your own market.

Yeah, agree! shame on the "swiss quality" concept. Swissy like it this way, no explaination. Swiss market is locked, thanks to the people party and likewise smart guys.
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Old 12.03.2011, 13:26
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Re: When your prices kill your own market.

I agree - but so many things are linked. Salaries in CH are much higher - and so is healthcare, accommodation, and most things. So prices take all this into account. We also live on the border, and do much of our shopping in France, as we are NOT on high Swiss salaries (but on UK pensions in £).
Exchange rates also influence differences a lot- when the E was quite high about 2 years ago, very few Swiss shopped in France or Germany. Now the E is low and the CHF high (too high?) - then the Swiss who can are flocking to France/Germany again- if close enough to make it worthwhile (petrol and time costs taken into account).

Last edited by Odile; 12.03.2011 at 14:03.
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Old 12.03.2011, 13:26
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Re: When your prices kill your own market.

Not everyone lives near the border so that they would have the choice. Not everything is cheaper across the border. Not everything is of similar quality across the border. Not everything that you might want is available across the border. Not everything can be brought across the border without running into customs problems.

I just consider myself fortunate living near the border and I shop on both sides. The Swiss market will survive.
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Old 12.03.2011, 13:49
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Re: When your prices kill your own market.

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OK so what you're saying is true for expatriates, not for Swiss people. I think there are relatively few "Swiss plates" in Germany over the weekend and those that are probably live in Basel. It has been my experience that Swiss people assess quality by price, have intense scepticism about what might be going on in the next valley/canton/country, and generally don't look for a bargain. This doesn't mean they're rich, but just have a different mentality. For example, an expat might say "right, I need a car, so I'll import it from Denmark, insure it under a British deal and fix it in France. Go on Ricardo to find winter tyres etc. If a Swiss person can't walk into his nearest dealership and purchase a car at sticker price, he can't afford a car and will take a tram.
That was true in the past, not anymore. You'll be surprised at the amount of Swiss who shops at Marktkauf. The garage's owner in Weil Am Rhein has most of his customers from Switzerland (not foreigners, swiss people). Same thing for McDo accross the border or Downtown of Lorrach.

Things are changing, maybe Switzerland will survive but it doesn't change the fact that people are getting more out of their place to get things at better price.

If price were more affordables and more competitives it would be more profitable for the population here.
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Old 12.03.2011, 14:40
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Re: When your prices kill your own market.

I think the OP has a point, all German towns near the border have large supermarkets and they are always packed with Swiss customers every evening and weekend.

It works the other way of course when you see germans filling up with fuel in Switzerland.

Overall though because of the strong chf I think more Swiss are taking a commute to Germany and France to do all sorts of shopping not just food, those small Swiss businesses near the border with Germany I really feel sorry for.
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Old 12.03.2011, 15:14
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Re: When your prices kill your own market.

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Since not everyone own a 120 000 chf annual salary here in Switzerland, and since the price for everything is so high, I was wondering how this can help or affect Switzerland's population in general...

Since our move here, I got the feeling and came to the conclusion that having to spend so much for a product you can buy half the price the other side of the border doesn't help the country but it push people to do so.

The amount of Swiss plates in Germany all the week and especially during the weekend shows it very well.

Today, we had to bring the car to the garage. Hubby went to the neighbourhood one to ask how much would cost those few things to fix. They told us 1000 chf.

He went to Weil Am Rhein and asked the same thing there: 240 Chf.

Which one do you think we will choose to fix our car?

Now let me ask you something, is the job would be different? Nope. Is the service will be better with the swiss price? Nope. So why someone would one to support a system that charge you 3 times the price of the guy next door? If we were living on millions, I wouldn't care. But sadly, we aren't.

Wouldn't be in the best interest of the population of Switzerland to be more competitive with his neightbours to provide them more work and more $$$?

Because even among the Swiss population, so many go to the other side of the border for grocery shopping, cars, household items, restaurants, etc.

If the prices were cheaper here, they would keep the money here which would be more money in everybody's pocket.

Nil
Friends who ask me "..and how are the prices in switzerland??" I replay -It cost the same that in mexico, but in swiss francs- Meaning that if something you buy there for 10 pesos it costs here chf 10, only that the 1chf=13mxp.

It is not a joke, i have make many comparisons, just an example is a normal and cheap brand of make up very used in mexico is NYX and the other day I was at Glatt zentrum and found this brand and I saw the prices and an eye pencil normally costing in mexico 15 pesos, here it was 14 chf
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Old 12.03.2011, 15:18
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Re: When your prices kill your own market.

How do you compare salaries and health care in Mexico?
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Old 12.03.2011, 15:25
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Re: When your prices kill your own market.

Health care in Mexico is free.

Salaries in Mexico are 10 times less than switzerland, and doctors are poor or middle class at best (free healthcare, remember?).
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Old 12.03.2011, 15:28
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Re: When your prices kill your own market.

Yes salaries and health care is higher here. I don't want to go on this side of the discussion because it has been talk and talk and chew, and digest and chew again...

I am talking about here, with swiss salary (those who have less than 120 000 chf) and the price of things compare with similar countries around Switzerland.... How it does affect the market when people from here go to shop over there because it is cheaper and because the price are not ajusted to more reasonnable one here.

The exemple of the garage this morning. How someone can afford to stay open and give a service 4 times higher than the guy the other side of the border. Maybe now he still have customers but those customers are getting more aware of the difference and don't have anymore problems to jump to the other side to get better price.

In long term, people from here who do business will suffer from it if they don't try to be more competitive...
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Old 12.03.2011, 15:30
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Re: When your prices kill your own market.

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How do you compare salaries and health care in Mexico?
This is really the crux of the matter, isn't it? People consider the prices here high, but wages are as well. I believe the average wage in Germany is around 60% of what it is in Switzerland, no? And they have higher taxes as well.

The Swiss economy seems to be functioning pretty well, barely having been touched by the recession a while back, so I think that for the most part prices must be in line with incomes. You'll always see the outlier, and some people will be inclined to shop abroad to save, but it's certainly not the majority, or even a significant minority, I think.


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In long term, people from here who do business will suffer from it if they don't try to be more competitive...
Guess you should be a businesswoman, since you see so much clearer than the various shop owners around. Seriously though, Nil - the economy has prospered this way for decades, and Germany hasn't moved any closer to Zürich than it was 50 years ago. I don't see a problem at the moment.
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Old 12.03.2011, 15:38
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Re: When your prices kill your own market.

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Guess you should be a businesswoman, since you see so much clearer than the various shop owners around. Seriously though, Nil - the economy has prospered this way for decades, and Germany hasn't moved any closer to Zürich than it was 50 years ago. I don't see a problem at the moment.
You don't have to go down on me in a personal matter. I am experiencing something here in Basel, if you see something else, share it.

I said this is what I came to the conclusion. If you believe I am wrong, explain it to me. But to pass a comment like your with the smilly face doesn't bring much to the conversation.

I am not a business woman, but I do shop and compare and I have eyes to see and a mouth to talk to people. What you see in general, I saw it in particular. When you talk one on one with shops owners, customers, etc you see what I see.

Things are changing, one cannot denied this. And if until now it wasn't a problem, maybe this is becoming one.

Now if me not being a business woman makes me less capable to see and analyse, I am sorry but you are wrong.
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Old 12.03.2011, 15:38
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Re: When your prices kill your own market.

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Things are changing, maybe Switzerland will survive but it doesn't change the fact that people are getting more out of their place to get things at better price.
This is true, but could easily take a generation - or at least until the current retirement-age-plus generation dies out. They grew up and prospered in a time of plenty (post WW2), and bought the majority of their goods and services from within the "Schweizer insel", and paid whatever was asked - and were happy, and expected to do so.

However, for this generation, border controls were also tighter, for both people and commodities.

Only now, with stores like Aldi, Lidl, and Bauhaus (with more people also doing DIY to save costs), are people realising that there are cheaper alternatives to "home grown". This is helped along with the increased number of foreign workers, also seeking cross-border bargains.

Couple this with an influx of foreign skilled and semi-skilled tradespersons from EU countries touting their services for cheaper rates, and things are slowly starting to change for those who "never had it so good" (i.e. the existing Swiss tradespeople who charged what they wanted, if the populace were happy to pay, "no questions asked").

Certainly, the franc (CHF) in the pocket needs to be better cared for, than previously was.
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Old 12.03.2011, 15:41
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Re: When your prices kill your own market.

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This is true, but could easily take a generation - or at least until the current retirement-age-plus generation dies out. They grew up and prospered in a time of plenty (post WW2), and bought the majority of their goods and services from within the "Schweizer insel", and paid whatever was asked - and were happy, and expected to do so.

However, for this generation, border controls were also tighter, for both people and commodities.

Only now, with stores like Aldi, Lidl, and Bauhaus (with more people also doing DIY to save costs), are people realising that there are cheaper alternatives to "home grown". This is helped along with the increased number of foreign workers, also seeking cross-border bargains.

Couple this with an influx of foreign skilled and semi-skilled tradespersons from EU countries touting their services for cheaper rates, and things are slowly starting to change for those who "never had it so good" (i.e. the existing Swiss tradespeople who charged what they wanted, if the populace were happy to pay, "no questions asked").

Certainly, the franc (CHF) in the pocket needs to be better cared for, than previously was.
Wait are you a business man? Should we trust you when you say this?
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Old 12.03.2011, 15:44
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Re: When your prices kill your own market.

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Wait are you a business man? Should we trust you when you say this?
Nah and naaahhhh. (Have you seen my new avatar?)
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Old 12.03.2011, 15:47
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Re: When your prices kill your own market.

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Wait are you a business man? Should we trust you when you say this?
Well, a businessman would be a little more believable, no?

Ok, funtime is over, I'm gone now.
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Old 12.03.2011, 15:49
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Re: When your prices kill your own market.

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Well, a businessman would be a little more believable, no?

Ok, funtime is over, I'm gone now.
Macho! .......
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Old 12.03.2011, 15:52
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Re: When your prices kill your own market.

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Things are changing, maybe Switzerland will survive but it doesn't change the fact that people are getting more out of their place to get things at better price.

.
I totally agree with you and also think this has to do a lot with "mixing nationalities" My hubby used to be like that (swiss) until I refused paying soo much for things we can do ourselves just going to Jumbo for say an example. He used to pay whatever they ask him without even asking a second opinion until i showed him otherwise. Another example is that one time we passed a gas station and it was way cheaper than the rest and we were looking for a gas station and asked him to pull over and full the tank there, he answered he wouldnt give profit to a company that is owned by (at this point i dont remember the name but it was from the guy who's son hitted a hotelmaid) and as much as i would love to agree with his ideology, im not getting richer with it and yes, we need to save as much as we can.
Now the swiss people have more and more influence about other cultures and ways of saving money either because they got married with a person of another nationality or simply they have friends, coworkers, you name it we are in expansion hahahaha.
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Old 12.03.2011, 16:20
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Re: When your prices kill your own market.

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Health care in Mexico is free.

Salaries in Mexico are 10 times less than switzerland, and doctors are poor or middle class at best (free healthcare, remember?).
I respectfully disagree with your generalization.

First of all health care is not free, for working people you get automatically deducted insurance from your salary every month plus your employer gives the other half. It is true that you will not pay anything else than ur montly fee and u have not to worry about the cost of any surgery, treatment or medicines. And sadly in my lovely country, that non free but fairly cheap health care system is a bad freddy crugger nightmare, as an example I know people who calls for an apointment and need to wait from 2 weeks (you are almost diying) to 3 months to get a normal apointment, so people who can try to afford it go to private doctors and what is nice about the sistem in mexico is that they charge per apointment and not per minute. around +300 pesos. but if you consider that the minimum salary its around 50pesos per day you can see my point.
The other point is that doctors are not poor, but well acomodated people in the economy. I have 3 relatives who are doctors in Mexico and they get a nice salary plus they get also private consultations. and is more than enough to live a comfortable life.
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