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Old 21.03.2011, 11:23
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Swiss crime rate is dropping - especially violent crimes.

As we are usually discussing each and every case the 20 Minutes or Blick is hyping, I want to highlight a small article that is far more interesting:

http://www.20min.ch/news/schweiz/sto...sinkt-17808988

In 2010, the crime statistics dropped 2%. That's not a massive change, but the important facts are WHERE the statistic changed:

- already 5% less in crimes against the STGB - that are all things you typically consider "crime", so it excludes all traffic violations which are apparently not dropping.
- especially less violent crimes, -6%; "strong" cases of violent crimes, -12%;
- rape, -18%
- child molesting, -26%
- less crimes by young offenders. -8% for "under 18"

I especially like to see that from all violent (not sure how you say this in English: The ones that harm a persons body, not property) crimes 81% can be solved by the cops. That's a lot.

So the much discussed Schengen decision did not turn Switzerland into one violent Banlieue of France after all...

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Old 21.03.2011, 11:25
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Re: Swiss crime rate is dropping - especially violent crimes.

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As we are usually discussing each and every case the 20 Minutes or Blick is hyping, I want to highlight a small article that is far more interesting:

http://www.20min.ch/news/schweiz/sto...sinkt-17808988

In 2010, the crime statistics dropped 2%. That's not a massive change, but the important facts are WHERE the statistic changed:

- already 5% less in crimes against the STGB - that are all things you typically consider "crime", so it excludes all traffic violations which are apparently not dropping.
- especially less violent crimes, -6%; "strong" cases of violent crimes, -12%;
- rape, -18%
- child molesting, -26%
- less crimes by young offenders. -8% for "under 18"

I especially like to see that from all violent (not sure how you say this in English: The ones that harm a persons body, not property) crimes 81% can be solved by the cops. That's a lot.

So the much discussed Schengen decision did not turn Switzerland into one violent Banlieue of France after all...

might be interesting to compare canton by canton, and specifically those close to the french border
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Old 21.03.2011, 11:30
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Re: Swiss crime rate is dropping - especially violent crimes.

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might be interesting to compare canton by canton, and specifically those close to the french border
You expect more child molesters there?
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Old 21.03.2011, 11:32
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Re: Swiss crime rate is dropping - especially violent crimes.

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I especially like to see that from all violent (not sure how you say this in English: The ones that harm a persons body, not property) crimes 81% can be solved by the cops. That's a lot.
Well it's simple, innit. Thanks to Schengen, there's more foreigners whom they can pin the crimes on...

I kid, I kid!

Last edited by Carlos R; 21.03.2011 at 13:38. Reason: grammar...
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Old 21.03.2011, 11:33
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Re: Swiss crime rate is dropping - especially violent crimes.

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You expect more child molesters there?
Not at all but in Geneva canton, it doesnt "feel" like crime such as drug related, personal theft and house breaking is getting any better, quite the contrary, but I don`t have any statistics at all.
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Old 21.03.2011, 11:36
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Re: Swiss crime rate is dropping - especially violent crimes.

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Not at all but in Geneva canton, it doesnt "feel" like crime such as drug related, personal theft and house breaking is getting any better, quite the contrary, but I don`t have any statistics at all.
The Geneva Police was on strike form 17 Feb to 11 March. You did not notice?
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Old 21.03.2011, 11:38
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Re: Swiss crime rate is dropping - especially violent crimes.

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Not at all but in Geneva canton, it doesnt "feel" like crime such as drug related, personal theft and house breaking is getting any better, quite the contrary, but I don`t have any statistics at all.
That's my point - same is true here in Zurich: The newspapers are fearmongering and keep on telling you that Switzerland is getting worse and worse. I keep on discussing for years that the measurable statistics are very stable... and now they are even improving.
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Old 21.03.2011, 11:38
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Re: Swiss crime rate is dropping - especially violent crimes.

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The Geneva Police was on strike form 17 Feb to 11 March. You did not notice?
Well apart from the fact they didn`t shave, not really.
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Old 21.03.2011, 12:34
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Re: Swiss crime rate is dropping - especially violent crimes.

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already 5% less in crimes against the STGB

violent crimes, -6%;
"strong" cases of violent crimes, -12%;
- rape, -18%
- child molesting, -26%
So what increased to take the total back up to -5%

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I especially like to see that from all violent (not sure how you say this in English: The ones that harm a persons body, not property) crimes 81% can be solved by the cops. That's a lot.
In other words; Almost a fifth of violent crime goes unsolved.



Just to, you know, spin it the other way
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Old 21.03.2011, 13:27
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Re: Swiss crime rate is dropping - especially violent crimes.

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I especially like to see that from all violent (not sure how you say this in English: The ones that harm a persons body, not property) crimes 81% can be solved by the cops. That's a lot.
Of course, it depends on how much the police and the state manipulate the data to present a certain desired outcome.
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Old 21.03.2011, 13:36
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Re: Swiss crime rate is dropping - especially violent crimes.

The details can be found here:
http://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/portal/d...icationID=4307
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Old 21.03.2011, 14:07
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Re: Swiss crime rate is dropping - especially violent crimes.

Interesting. The category of Infractions du Code pénal is relevant. It includes homicides, theft, rape, etc.. Comparing 2009 and 2010 for Geneva excluding the city, there is a drop of 1% while the city itself had a drop of 5%! Vaud excluding Lausanne rose 11% while Lausanne dropped 14%. Basel City shows a drop of 3%.

No, the area has not become like a banlieue in Paris and it is clear that there has been a lot of scaremongering by the media.
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Old 21.03.2011, 14:16
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Re: Swiss crime rate is dropping - especially violent crimes.

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So what increased to take the total back up to -5%
The article doesn't say so, but if most violent crimes drop sharper than the average and we are only looking at the Strafgesetzbuch, I guess the ones against property must do less so: vandalism, theft... and as I expect there to be far more cases of those "lesser" cases against property I guess they have the biggest impact on the average (and murder went 2% up)

but I do not have any other data to back that up. The extreme numbers as rape and child molesting are statistic "effects" as in 2009 many "old" cases were discovered, so they had a peak - quite normal to have a drop the next year then.
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Old 21.03.2011, 14:18
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Re: Swiss crime rate is dropping - especially violent crimes.

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Of course, it depends on how much the police and the state manipulate the data to present a certain desired outcome.
Surely more crime = more crime fighting funding. Wouldn't it be in their interest to present alarming figures?
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Old 21.03.2011, 14:25
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Re: Swiss crime rate is dropping - especially violent crimes.

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Surely more crime = more crime fighting funding. Wouldn't it be in their interest to present alarming figures?
More crime = you're not doing your job and the people who vote aren't going to be happy with you and will cut your budget (because all that money is being wasted for no result) and boot you out.

Less crime = people will be happy with what you are doing and will gladly keep you around and give you more money to keep doing a swelll job and maybe more to go after more bad guys. It also means more people will want to live and work there meaning more tax dollars.

This sort of thing has been seen before in other urban environments.
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Old 21.03.2011, 14:31
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Re: Swiss crime rate is dropping - especially violent crimes.

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More crime = you're not doing your job and the people who vote aren't going to be happy with you and will cut your budget (because all that money is being wasted for no result) and boot you out.

Less crime = people will be happy with what you are doing and will gladly keep you around and give you more money to keep doing a swelll job and maybe more to go after more bad guys. It also means more people will want to live and work there meaning more tax dollars.

This sort of thing has been seen before in other urban environments.
To be honest: the data comes directly from the Swiss federal office of statistics. I am a fan of their site for years and the data they present have been great to bring some facts back into political discussions. I absolutely do not think they have any political bias - they do their job in the Swiss way.

It never was necessary to lie to the public as the various Swiss political parties were always able to interprete the same data in so different and contradicting ways that is fun to watch. Besides: The Swiss Bundesrat has representatives from all major parties who continuously battle for more influence - so here you do not have "the government agains the opposition" as in other countries at all - every party is a bit of both.
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Old 21.03.2011, 14:40
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Re: Swiss crime rate is dropping - especially violent crimes.

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More crime = you're not doing your job and the people who vote aren't going to be happy with you and will cut your budget (because all that money is being wasted for no result) and boot you out.

Less crime = people will be happy with what you are doing and will gladly keep you around and give you more money to keep doing a swelll job and maybe more to go after more bad guys. It also means more people will want to live and work there meaning more tax dollars.

This sort of thing has been seen before in other urban environments.
It could easily go the other way. Because you assume all decisions go through one political position, when in reality its completely different. Police is a combination of political and public service positions. It most cases I know of, ca rise in crime across the board has always been followed with an increase in funding
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Old 21.03.2011, 15:07
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Re: Swiss crime rate is dropping - especially violent crimes.

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It could easily go the other way. Because you assume all decisions go through one political position, when in reality its completely different. Police is a combination of political and public service positions. It most cases I know of, ca rise in crime across the board has always been followed with an increase in funding
Fair to say, but to me the stats fail the 'sniff test'. It's quite difficult for me to believe that even in a place like Switzerland, the police are capable of solving 81% of any kind of crime.
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Old 21.03.2011, 18:20
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Re: Swiss crime rate is dropping - especially violent crimes.

And it might be worth noticing that the majority of the crimes have been commited by Swiss nationals. Of course the SVP will tell you it's all people who received their Swiss citizenship in the last 2 years
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Old 21.03.2011, 19:11
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Re: Swiss crime rate is dropping - especially violent crimes.

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And it might be worth noticing that the majority of the crimes have been commited by Swiss nationals. Of course the SVP will tell you it's all people who received their Swiss citizenship in the last 2 years
I'm not with the SVP, not at all, but you may have noticed that in most fields of violent crimes, about 50%, partly even significantly more, are committed by non-Swiss, who make up only a good 20% of the population.

Hey, and I am sitting here talking to those ferinners...





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