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-   -   You are all losers - Clarkson (https://www.englishforum.ch/daily-life/11532-you-all-losers-clarkson.html)

PlantHead 28.08.2007 15:33

You are all losers - Clarkson
 
Clarkson Article

Quote:

And then came the latest migration figures, which showed that while Britain received 5.4 billion west African pickpockets last year, we lost what the Daily Mail calls 196,000 British citizens. White, middle-class families who have moved abroad.....
....Australia is where you go when you’ve made a mess of everything. That’s why the 1.3m Brits who live there are known as whingeing Poms. Because they’re all failures......
.....The fact is, I’m afraid, that anyone who emigrates from Britain, no matter where they end up, is a bit of a dimwit.....
.......Honestly, every single expat I’ve ever met is the same; hunched at a bar in a stupid shirt, at 10 in the morning, desperately trying to convince themselves that they are not alcoholics, that the barman really is their friend and that it’s only 11 hours till bedtime.....
So Clarkson can be a total arse I know, and his points are basically rubbish..although there is some truth in what he says...ie.

Quote:

Maybe you fancy a tax haven? Great, you save a few quid but you end up with a bunch of other ingrates in a cesspit like Monaco.
I guess this can also apply to Switzerland. I know I haven't come here for tax reasons, but there is a perception that expats here are money grubbers, or in some other way money obsessed dullards.

There is also the argument, that I make, that back home is rubbish for so many reasons;
however its been pointed out to me that I am running out, and that instead of staying behind and trying to fix the country I have moved to other countries to break them.
Again something that I hope is wrong, but I can see the reasoning.

I don't want a thread on why people have moved to Switzerland, there are other threads for that, but I would like to know what people think are the causes of people leaving their countries, and is Clarkson right?..are we all just moving around because the grass looks greener?

terryhall 28.08.2007 15:39

Re: You are all losers - Clarkson
 
Well I'd like to say otherwise, but I'm here in the main because my boss liked the fact that he got excellent tax breaks and so relocated the entire company, laid off 3 people, and shifted his whole life over here just to save a few quid.

His current efforts to integrate into Swiss society = zero.

My concern before moving here about language, answered simply with "It's OK, they all speak great English, you don't need to learn German" :msnshock:

So, while there is an element of truth in the stereotype presented by Clarkson, you have to remember he makes his living by being needlessly controversial and overly generalising complex issues for "shock factor".

Personally I'm of the opinion that you will find a healthy cross section of any particular society, in any location where that society happens to be.

For example, I represent "Gingers Who Wear Glasses" - where do I fit, in Clarksons capitalist model...I rest my case...

blueshrimp 28.08.2007 15:39

Re: You are all losers - Clarkson
 
No one leaves family, friends, home and culture unless the grass looks greener.

chemgoddess 28.08.2007 15:40

Re: You are all losers - Clarkson
 
I moved because of an opportunity afforded to me. I'm guessing a lot of other people did as well.

Eire 28.08.2007 15:42

Re: You are all losers - Clarkson
 
And there is the fact that large amounts of what Clarkson says is tongue in cheek!!! (I hope!);)

Polorise 28.08.2007 15:43

Re: You are all losers - Clarkson
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by chemgoddess (Post 98177)
I moved because of an opportunity afforded me. I'm guessing a lot of other people did as well.

I think a lot of people are in the same boat, I know I am. Very easy for me to get "stuck" here too ;) ... to a certain extent my original move was a case of grass is greener, along with a desire to experience a different culture etc.

Uncle Max 28.08.2007 15:44

Re: You are all losers - Clarkson
 
What are you doing reading the Times?

28.08.2007 15:44

Re: You are all losers - Clarkson
 
Of course there are many factors that lead to someone ending up elsewhere and I guess that was the case for me with one over-riding final straw:

I left the UK because it was no longer safe. My car was vandalised on a nightly basis - the police were not present (we lived in a market town of 40K people and the police station was empty overnight), and my kids could not go from one end of the town to the other without an adult.

Here they can travel from one end of the country to the other on their own.

The crunch came when I chased a drugged up twat of about 30 - we're not talking teenagers here - who had pushed over my motorbike for a laugh - I chased him with my 6-iron and if I had caught him I would have beat him to death with it.

It was time to leave.

pat 28.08.2007 15:45

Re: You are all losers - Clarkson
 
That can't be a real J. Clarkson article..... It not once mentions cars..

I smell a rat :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)

Eire 28.08.2007 15:50

Re: You are all losers - Clarkson
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by pat (Post 98185)
That can't be a real J. Clarkson article..... It not once mentions cars..

I smell a rat :-) :-) :-) :-)

The same petrol head Clarkson writes regularly on topics not motoring related. There is a book of all his Sunday Times articles which is a reasonably entertaining read, think its called "The world according to Clarkson" or something to that effect...

Personally I think he wrote most of the articles while driving his HiLux to the North Pole while getting pleasantly p!$$ed on Gin & Tonics, at least it can bring a giggle from time to time.

dod 28.08.2007 15:51

Re: You are all losers - Clarkson
 
In fairness to Clarkson, I do recognise a few Zurich expatriates in this part of his caricature:

Quote:

...hunched at a bar in a stupid shirt, at 10 in the morning, desperately trying to convince themselves that they are not alcoholics, that the barman really is their friend and that it’s only 11 hours till bedtime.

Alexis1537 28.08.2007 15:52

Re: You are all losers - Clarkson
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by chemgoddess (Post 98177)
I moved because of an opportunity afforded to me. I'm guessing a lot of other people did as well.

Ditto. Specifically? Chance to educate my daughter in a French-speaking school without having to go through the lottery of getting her into my old school in London, use my other native language (French) in my work, do more interesting work for a company that I respect, play a lot more tennis, go skiing, visit one of several neighbouring countries, move closer to my French friends, the list goes on.

Yes, we'll be leaving tons of friends and family, but seeing as we live in London, we'll probably see them just as much when we're in Geneva.

Be interested to hear everyone else's motives.

mimi1981 28.08.2007 16:01

Re: You are all losers - Clarkson
 
I came over originally on a temporary assignment with no intention of staying. It was purely a career opportunity and a chance to experience a new culture which I believed could only be an enriching experience. After 6 months of being here and travelling back home occassionally I soon saw the differences between UK and CH and would never dream of moving back there. The lifestyle here is not just about money but the safety, cleanliness and respectful culture that exists.

It is true however that a lot of people do fit with Jeremy's strong opinions but on the whole most of the expat community I've met here are not a negative impact on Switzerland and really try to integrate with the society they have chosen to live in.

cyrus 28.08.2007 16:09

Re: You are all losers - Clarkson
 
Clarkson both annoys and amuses me in equal parts I think.

There can't be that many of us sitting in the bars at 10:00, I, for one, have to work for a living.

What brought me here? Better job, less travel (I'd grown sick of living in a hotel), and I'd been contracting here long enough to grow fond of the place, I'd also made friends (a couple of them do, however, work behind the bar!). I'd been an expat as a Kid, and moving to a different country didn't scare me so much.

Lob 28.08.2007 16:16

Re: You are all losers - Clarkson
 
Clarkson is brilliant. Whether he means what he says or not, he's managed to get 300 replies and I am sure discussion is going on all over the world amongst the Brit expats.

So the column is a success ;)

My take - yes, I can see some of myself in there....what with Premiership football (albeit one hour later in the evening). But apart from that, the ol' Island could sink ;)

It's great that a motoring journo can illicit such feelings amongst his faithful expat readers :D

Robinofhood 29.08.2007 03:51

Re: You are all losers - Clarkson
 
Lob, second that, and the sooner she sinks the better.

Thalwiler 29.08.2007 08:27

Re: You are all losers - Clarkson
 
He mentions tax as a reason, dose ho not live on the Isle of Man?

Still a good bloke...

ChrisW 29.08.2007 08:38

Re: You are all losers - Clarkson
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Thalwiler (Post 98393)
He mentions tax as a reason, dose ho not live on the Isle of Man?

Still a good bloke...

I thought that he lived in the Cotswolds, so I looked it up, and Wikipedia has this to say:
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wikipedia
"Clarkson currently lives in the town of Chipping Norton, situated in the Cotswolds, with his wife and three children. He formerly lived in London. His second home is a lighthouse on the Isle of Man."

It's unclear which one he uses for tax reasons. Wikipedia reference-linkJeremy Clarkson

Thalwiler 29.08.2007 08:58

Re: You are all losers - Clarkson
 
I know what one I would use, althogh it would be tough being under th 90 day rule with all his work on the bbc.

krlock3 29.08.2007 16:59

Re: You are all losers - Clarkson
 
dullard is a good word, not nearly enough used.

people leave their countries for many different reasons. i would say that it would be rare for an asset poor person to come to a country purely for tax reasons, which basically rules out a lot of us. for the well off, it might be another story.

so i agree with your assertion of the healthy cross section.

i wouldnt worry too much about what people back home think... if they are being accusatory about you leaving, there could foreseeably sometimes be an element of jealously not far behind.

i do not agree with jeremy that it is the failure that migrates away from their home land... it is in my experience those with get up and go that do it, and by their very nature, they are the ones who tend to be a little more successful, by whatever criteria you want to lay down.... at least open minded... which is already a plus point in my book.

krlock3

dennis_ay 29.08.2007 17:09

Re: You are all losers - Clarkson
 
A lot of reasons why I am here, but if I lived in the UK, I'd leave too...

Some expats are truly horrid, especially in parts of Asia (and Dubai seems to have a lot as well).

Take a twat loser from a sh*tbox 1st world country, and put 'em in a place with a few natives, and they act like God. Sickening behavior. Thankfully, CH doesn't seem to get this particular breed...

swiss_in_training 03.09.2007 15:07

Re: You are all losers - Clarkson
 
I moved to follow my Swiss boyfriend and work in an inherently temporary and no-money-or-prestige job. Mostly just out of curiosity.

I also heard many people say (mostly from the institute I now work for) that "you don't need to learn Swiss-German, everyone speaks English" though I think they really meant "not to do your job."

I'm actually surprised at how often I'm asked why I moved here, and nothing I say seems plausible unless I pull the boyfriend explanation-which then results in the satisfied nod and "aaaahhh" response. So, whether or not it is true, people do seem to assume that expats are less than stellar folks-we must have some reason why we'd give up home sweet home. And, "to try something different" ain't good enough.

flow23 03.09.2007 16:07

Re: You are all losers - Clarkson
 
moved to where my heart is -> my GF comes from CH. additive at my former company...i had reached the career horizon for a couple of years. i had 2,5 years of probation time with zürich due that my girl and i tried beforehand a distance relationsship and i was travelling here every 2nd. weekend. so i figured out: job market looks fit, much more opportunities for me at that time compared to germany, i could take on a new job/responsibilities etc., quality of living is equal, partly better than germany...and that i liked CH, especially zürich. well, its not exiguous but wasnt the decisive point to move here: tax, money i save up etc.

when socialising would fail, relationsship would brake and id feel like the loneliest person on the planet...id give a sh*t about the greener grass and move back.

ElJeFe 03.09.2007 17:26

Re: You are all losers - Clarkson
 
Haha, gotta hand it to Clarkson, he knows how to get a debate going. In all honesty I think his comments are tongue in cheek, but do contain a grain of truth...though it's a small grain in this case. Every single expat (British and American) I have met in Swissyland love being here, including myself. OK Clarkson can be a crass, ignorant lummox at times, I'm still going to watch the next episode of Top Gear and laugh my ass off at his commentary.

I left my country long ago, and before moving to Swissyland I was already abroad (Brussels), and yes, I did move here because the grass is greener. As for British expats...hmm cannot say, I'm not British, but I do know that perhaps Switzerland offers a salary that comes closer to what a Brit would receive in the UK...at least much more than what one would earn in say, Holland or Belgium.

03.09.2007 18:26

Re: You are all losers - Clarkson
 
My first taste of Central Europe was a 4 week school exchange with a German family, during which we spent a week in Switzerland. We did lots of mountain hiking in that week and I fell in love with the hills. This at the age of 16.

I vowed that one day I would live somewhere in Europe. One thing that had left a vivid impression was that you could simply hop into a car and drive to another country. In contrast, when living in the UK it was a major exercise (and expensive) to do so.

Eventually, via the Netherlands and Paris, and back to the UK, I realized I didn't want to live in the UK any more, so started looking to move again.

I had always been put off the idea of Switzerland by one of my French teachers at school. He was a nasty piece of work, but then I met a Swiss girl and realized that all the Swiss obviously weren't like him.

So I included Switzerland in my possible destinations, got a job here, and here I still am.

ali_the_nomad 03.09.2007 20:11

Re: You are all losers - Clarkson
 
It's been suggested to me that a high number of those from the UK who've moved to Switzerland are northeners - maybe this means that the south is so pleasant that people don't need to move, and that we've all moved because the north isn't so great (I'm from Manchester and love the North, by the way - but apparently not enough to go back).

Any thoughts on this?

DeadLast 03.09.2007 21:21

Re: You are all losers - Clarkson
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by PlantHead (Post 98172)
its been pointed out to me that I am running out, and that instead of staying behind and trying to fix the country

That would be tilting at windlmills.

Quote:

I would like to know what people think are the causes of people leaving their countries
Because they're sh.. rubbish?

Joe 90 03.09.2007 23:07

Re: You are all losers - Clarkson
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by swissbob (Post 98182)
I left the UK because it was no longer safe. My car was vandalised on a nightly basis - the police were not present (we lived in a market town of 40K people and the police station was empty overnight), and my kids could not go from one end of the town to the other without an adult.

All of the above. Plus failing heath service, increasing living costs, worsening schools, more taxes, widening divisions in the community. Neighbours had a video of a car being vandalised, the police didn't have time to watch it. I dialled 999 while watching a car thief in action one afternoon. I was on hold for 4 minutes. My mobile bill! Police said didn't I know this was an emergency number, this wasn't urgent, why had I dialled 999. They'd checked and the car wasn't reported stolen yet. This was in a top area near Canary Wharf. This is partly why 80% of all the professional families I knew moved out before their kids started school. The local council are still trying to work out why they all leave. I'd lived in Switzerland before, and thought it was worth the big pay cut to move back.

sharon 03.09.2007 23:19

Re: You are all losers - Clarkson
 
I think that the expats here seem to be a different breed than the ones that say up sticks to the south of Spain - there they seem to sell up and move to a "Wimpey village in the sun" and never meet anyone local or even try to find a job - they then hate it and spend their time in the bar like Clarkson suggests... Most of the expats I've met here in Switzerland seem to be working and trying to integrate... though of course there are exceptions

We moved here for work but I like it because it is safer and a better standard of life than the UK - especially with all the gun grime that I hear about each morning on the BBC... so much for me integrating watching that:msnblush:

04.09.2007 14:26

Re: You are all losers - Clarkson
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ali_the_nomad (Post 100166)
It's been suggested to me that a high number of those from the UK who've moved to Switzerland are northeners - maybe this means that the south is so pleasant that people don't need to move, and that we've all moved because the north isn't so great (I'm from Manchester and love the North, by the way - but apparently not enough to go back).

Any thoughts on this?

I think it's that the job market is more stable down South.

daddylenny 12.10.2007 18:54

Re: You are all losers - Clarkson
 
Clarkeson is a very funny guy and great writer. But you can't take a man seroiusly that dosen't like football, wears tight jeans and used to have a bubble perm.

Smartie 12.10.2007 19:19

Re: You are all losers - Clarkson
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ali_the_nomad (Post 100166)
It's been suggested to me that a high number of those from the UK who've moved to Switzerland are northeners - maybe this means that the south is so pleasant that people don't need to move, and that we've all moved because the north isn't so great (I'm from Manchester and love the North, by the way - but apparently not enough to go back).

Any thoughts on this?

Are salaries that much lower in the north compared to London? As such the Swiss job market is not so competetive?

I'm from the south and I didn't come here for the money, I earn about the same as I did in London (possibly less with the current rate of exchange).

I've also noticed a number of the English ex-pats are "northern monkeys"! ;)

magyir 12.10.2007 19:41

Re: You are all losers - Clarkson
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by swissbob (Post 98182)
Of course there are many factors that lead to someone ending up elsewhere and I guess that was the case for me with one over-riding final straw:

I left the UK because it was no longer safe. My car was vandalised on a nightly basis - the police were not present (we lived in a market town of 40K people and the police station was empty overnight), and my kids could not go from one end of the town to the other without an adult.

Here they can travel from one end of the country to the other on their own.

The crunch came when I chased a drugged up twat of about 30 - we're not talking teenagers here - who had pushed over my motorbike for a laugh - I chased him with my 6-iron and if I had caught him I would have beat him to death with it.

It was time to leave.

Hey Bob nice to meet you yesterday thanks for the Sky box (buying the sat tomorrow) hope you get a better use for the 6 iron these days you seemed so mild-mannered ;)
btw my fave club is a 7.

Natasha 12.10.2007 20:58

Re: You are all losers - Clarkson
 
I have recently read "The World According to Clarkson" and I thought some of it was highly amusing (even if I didn't agree with it). He has an engaging, simple way of writing. The narrative gives the impression that he is talking to you in the pub, and is most of the time just trying to get a rise. I find it quite endearing.

In regards to his views on expats, it is definitely a contentious issue. Personally, my motivations were anything but monetary. I found myself at the age of 30, bored out of my wits, happily single, with a European Passport in my hot little hands that I had never used. I had a long hard think about it, and realised that if I didn't use my passport now I never would, and then I would be miserable and bitter about it for the rest of my life, and chances were in the long run I would take it out on someone I loved.

Why Zurich? Well, I didn't want to go to London: if I was going to do that I may as well have stayed at home, as I would already be moderately familiar with the environment and the people. I did contemplate ski instructing in Austria, but I realised I would just get pissed for 6 months and be back to where I started. Again. As I was working for UBS in Australia, I had a fair grasp on the working environment, and managed to ascertain the viabilty of working in Switzerland.

Coming from OZ where it is a fair drive to go away for the weekend, and the ski resorts are at least 5 hours away, it is difficult to comprehend that I am so central to everything.

The money just provides you with the freedom you require to do all those cool things which are right on your doorstep.

And of course the bloody grass is greener. We are in the middle of a drought in Australia :msntongue:

13.10.2007 10:27

Re: You are all losers - Clarkson
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Smartie (Post 115638)
I've also noticed a number of the English ex-pats are "northern monkeys"! ;)

Now you mention it, there's another bonus we Northerners get here :)

No Southerners constantly slagging us off!

We've heard all the jokes a gazillion times; it can get quite tiresome, not to mention boring.

:D

EDIT: You do realise that Clarkson is a Northern lad himself, from Donny (Doncaster)?

Smartie 13.10.2007 10:33

Re: You are all losers - Clarkson
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JVC (Post 115725)
Now you mention it, there's another bonus we Northerners get here :)

No Southerners constantly slagging us off!

We've heard all the jokes a gazillion times; it can get quite tiresome, not to mention boring.

:D

Being a foreigner it's important to be open-minded. I've even started tolerating northerners! ;)

Your accents have character. That along with all the local accents, I do not miss hearing Essex/Chav speak at all :)

amrj700 03.04.2009 21:16

Re: You are all losers - Clarkson
 
I have fisked his article since he's done a new anti-expat one. He doesn't have a go at Switzerland this time...

http://wb2010.blogspot.com/2009/04/o...e-too-far.html

Fisked?>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fisking

I still enjoy this forum, but my current target for moving out of horrible Britain is NRW in Germany, not Switzerland. But I may get richer and change my mind and end with a place in Chur or Martigny, you never know.

Also, I think it's failt clear that he must spend so much time in mainland Britain that he is not paying tax only for the Isle of Man, which he likes for its lack of speed limits. If he were getting a massive BBC salary and paying no UK tax on it, he is smart enough to envisage the uproar this would cause if exposed.

Canadian_dude 03.04.2009 21:50

Re: You are all losers - Clarkson
 
I can't wait for him to get his hands on the topic of Switzerland (he has a bit).

Louis Wu 04.04.2009 10:24

Re: You are all losers - Clarkson
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by amrj700 (Post 432839)
I have fisked his article since he's done a new anti-expat one. He doesn't have a go at Switzerland this time...

http://wb2010.blogspot.com/2009/04/o...e-too-far.html

Fisked?>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fisking

I still enjoy this forum, but my current target for moving out of horrible Britain is NRW in Germany, not Switzerland. But I may get richer and change my mind and end with a place in Chur or Martigny, you never know.

Also, I think it's failt clear that he must spend so much time in mainland Britain that he is not paying tax only for the Isle of Man, which he likes for its lack of speed limits. If he were getting a massive BBC salary and paying no UK tax on it, he is smart enough to envisage the uproar this would cause if exposed.


Having moved here to Switzerland after 9 years of living in NRW I fully agree with you. Currently I'm here because of the job but I'd rather be back in Germany - I left the UK in 1993 with the idea of spending a couple of years abroad, that seems to have been slightly extended.

BasP72 04.04.2009 10:57

Re: You are all losers - Clarkson
 
Just curious, what is so nice about NRW ?


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