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  #21  
Old 09.06.2011, 01:36
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Re: Feeling a little justified...?

Is it time to revolt then?

Give me a shout when it sparks
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  #22  
Old 09.06.2011, 01:39
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Re: Feeling a little justified...?

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Some questions inevitably result from this statement :

> house prices falling can be a GOOD thing as it may make it easier for new business to establish themselves or coming in. Why is this only negative in the UK ?

> food prices rising ? Is this the result of the falling UK£ exchange rate ?

> are these spending cuts have such a tremendous impact ? And if so does this mean that there in the U.K. still was/is a lot depending on the central government ?

> what, up to your opinion, is the main reason for the "drop in the standard of living" in the U.K. ?
Pay rises below inflation, food and fuel costs rising above inflation, streets cleaned less often...I could go on... Depending on your needs, the cuts can impact greatly.

Central governments cut local councils budgets, local taxes go up.
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  #23  
Old 09.06.2011, 01:40
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Re: Feeling a little justified...?

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Is it time to revolt then?

Give me a shout when it sparks
A few Brits are revolting...
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Old 09.06.2011, 01:50
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Re: Feeling a little justified...?

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Tell me about it.. we have kids starting University that passed GCSE in Maths and cannot do simple arithmetics (even with calculator!). Cannot understand simple instructions on how to attend interviews at University OR how to dress for interviews OR even better, have parents doing everything for them including enrollment. Yet they feel indignant when their application being rejected??

These are all accumulated results of political failure over the last 15 years and will take at least another generation to get it right.
"over the last 15 years" ?

This list here

Sir John Major 28. November 1990 - 2. Mai 1997 Konservativ
Tony Blair ------2. Mai 1997 ----- 27. Juni 2007 Labour
Gordon Brown -27. Juni 2007 - ----11. Mai 2010 Labour Kabinett Brown
David Cameron 11. Mai 2010 ------- im Amt -----Konservativ / Koalitionsregierung Kabinett Cameron

indicates that it is Tony Blair and Gordon Brown who were to blame by your timeframe. So the question. What did they wrong ? And why does it look as if the Cameron government does not succeed in rectifying what went wrong ?
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Old 09.06.2011, 01:53
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Re: Feeling a little justified...?

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A few Brits are revolting...
Few is never enough
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  #26  
Old 09.06.2011, 02:14
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Re: Feeling a little justified...?

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One of the reasons for me moving here was to keep ahead of the economic crisis (not escape, I don't think CH is immune). It's too early to gloat, Switzerland could be hit just as hard.
If you have not yet got it, Switzerland WAS HIT just as hard. To keep in business, people in both the export industry and inbound tourism, the two mainstays of the economy had the reduce margins quite extremely to survive. The biggest bank had to go through a partial nationalisation, and the 2nd largest now belongs partially to the State of Kuwait. Many companies were sold abroad, not for pleasure or "to guarantee a good future" but in reality in order to survive. The federal government pushed through an extensive rescue package for the economy in 2009 and 2010 .

The only question is whether the fateful "too big to fail" policy in case of UBS was correct and intelligent, or whether it might have been better to have sold the ailing concern to a foreign investor (from wherever). The saving of the UBS did cost the union more than 4 times as much as a rescue of Swissair would have cost. If you read in the papers that more than a third of the UBS jobs are in North America, than moves to support jobs in the USA and Canada are NOT really in the interests of the Swiss Confederation.

On the inland-side, the situation differs in so far as most Swiss do not own their lodgings but rent it on a monthly basis. So that sinking house prices in Switzerland were to the benefit of the majority.

On the side of the inbound-tourism, to revert to the more important nr.2 of the economy, the problem right now is that the cities tourism-wise are getting ahead amazingly well but that the alpine resorts are in deep sh...., really in serious trouble. This development may result in even more people moving from the countryside to the urban areas, adding to the already existing problems.

While the exploding CHF exchange-rates ARE a big problem, the very same exchange-rates mean that the Swiss economy can purchase vital raw-materials more cheaply than before, that the fuel-surcharges on airfreight this year only went up to between 1.20 and 1.60 and not to some CHF 2.-- etc as a year before. THIS of course shows that everything has two sides.

Well, a 12,79% "international troubles tax" on bank-accounts in Switzerland of NON-resident foreigners might bring the exchange-rate back to a sensible level

Last edited by Wollishofener; 09.06.2011 at 12:37.
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Old 09.06.2011, 02:17
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Re: Feeling a little justified...?

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Pay rises below inflation, food and fuel costs rising above inflation, streets cleaned less often...I could go on... Depending on your needs, the cuts can impact greatly.

Central governments cut local councils budgets, local taxes go up.
Well, this is the DISadvantage of a centralized state. Local councils ought not be dependent on the central government but work with what they get in taxes directly. And taxes should primarily NOT be paid to the central government but by 90% to the province or region. John Major called this idea "subsidiarity", I call it REAL Federalism.
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  #28  
Old 09.06.2011, 09:10
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Re: Feeling a little justified...?

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Why would I be feeling smug about otherwise good and decent people finding themselves on the short end of life's nasty and brutish stick again? I find myself unable to think of any reasons.
It's the elderly I feel sorry for. There was an old bloke on BBC news last night talking about the 19% price hike announced by Scottish Power. He lives on a state pension. He's already turned his gas off. Any more hikes in energy prices and he says the only option left is to turn out the lights.
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Old 09.06.2011, 09:38
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Re: Feeling a little justified...?

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Well, this is the DISadvantage of a centralized state. Local councils ought not be dependent on the central government but work with what they get in taxes directly. And taxes should primarily NOT be paid to the central government but by 90% to the province or region. John Major called this idea "subsidiarity", I call it REAL Federalism.
It works well here, I agree. But a Swiss system of direct taxation by Local Councils would not be transferrable to the UK without the introduction of a similar Swiss-style direct democracy and the controls that come with it. That won't happen anytime soon.

With their system of representative democracy, the elected officials in British Local Councils simply aren't as accountable to the electorate as Communes are here. In many cases their spending is out of control and referendums by the electorate to control budgets and deficits are unheard of. The "top down" control by central government isn't perfect, but it better than no control.
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  #30  
Old 09.06.2011, 09:48
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Re: Feeling a little justified...?

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One of the reasons for me moving here was to keep ahead of the economic crisis (not escape, I don't think CH is immune). It's too early to gloat, Switzerland could be hit just as hard.
You are correct there.
The UK is in a mess but don't worry; the rest of the EC is following and Switzerland will not be immune.
Basically the government in the UK mismanaged the country financially and psychologically.
The Tax Credit system made it too easy (actually better off) for people to do little or absolutely nothing.
I have had clients in the UK closing their businesses (tired of bad debts and red tape) and coming to me telling me that they are actually financially better off and have more time to do nothing with their family. That was your labour Tax Credit/Benefit system for you.

I cannot see Cameron/Conservative sorting things out as Thatcher did because he doesn't have the oil revenue coming in as Thatcher did.
The next generation don't stand much of a chance. As from what I can see the young are more worried about their Iphone4/Android mobile phone and their FaceBook/Twitter Links than actually working and have and attitude of "I WANT IT NOW" with no plans for the future.
With regard to pensions; there will be no pensions; or they will be "Means Tested" and not payable until 75 years old within the next 20 years.

The people of the EC are in for a shock and there will be without doubt civil unrest.

The USA is in the same situation and I find it quite funny how the USA news channels report that the EC is worse off and the European channels talk about the USA being worse off.

One should appreciate being in Switzerland where it will come, but slower and not so bad.
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  #31  
Old 09.06.2011, 09:57
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Re: Feeling a little justified...?

Often the older generation are too proud to go to the social services and ask for help. Help is there to ensure a basic living, so maybe he wanted to get on national TV.

My ex-wife is almost mad & lives in Bournemouth. She was born in 1960 & is a bi-lingual secretary. Five years ago she chose to move from Bern to Bournemouth. She had 5 cats and the only place she could find that accepted her cats was charging CHF 2,300 in rent each month, and she had no money left for food & electricity. She could have lived somewhere cheaper, she could have found a job. Three years ago her father bought a house in Bournemouth for her. Three of the cats have died. She has only worked for 4 months since 1989, and she is still living on social security.
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  #32  
Old 09.06.2011, 10:03
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Re: Feeling a little justified...?

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You are correct there.
The UK is in a mess but don't worry; the rest of the EC is following and Switzerland will not be immune.
Basically the government in the UK mismanaged the country financially and psychologically.
The Tax Credit system made it too easy (actually better off) for people to do little or absolutely nothing.
I have had clients in the UK closing their businesses (tired of bad debts and red tape) and coming to me telling me that they are actually financially better off and have more time to do nothing with their family. That was your labour Tax Credit/Benefit system for you.

I cannot see Cameron/Conservative sorting things out as Thatcher did because he doesn't have the oil revenue coming in as Thatcher did.
The next generation don't stand much of a chance. As from what I can see the young are more worried about their Iphone4/Android mobile phone and their FaceBook/Twitter Links than actually working and have and attitude of "I WANT IT NOW" with no plans for the future.
With regard to pensions; there will be no pensions; or they will be "Means Tested" and not payable until 75 years old within the next 20 years.

The people of the EC are in for a shock and there will be without doubt civil unrest.

The USA is in the same situation and I find it quite funny how the USA news channels report that the EC is worse off and the European channels talk about the USA being worse off.

One should appreciate being in Switzerland where it will come, but slower and not so bad.
You are outdated. Switzerland has NOT to follow as it went through that mess at the same time it started in the U.K.

The biggest bank now is on welfare from the union and the second is partially owned now by the State of Kuwait. Inbound tourism (nr 2 of the CH economy) at least in the countryside is in deep distress. People in the export-industry and in the freight business had to lower their margins by up to 60%. Similar with services like book-sales etc.

Back to the U.K..
> What about the oil revenues ? Have the oil-reserves in the North Sea been exploited too much ?
> What you say about the young generation had, with some "seasonal" differences, already been side by "older" people in the Roman Empire, the Pharaonic Kingdoms of Egypt and Babylonia/Assyria


And what about "the rest of the E.U." ? Countries like Germany, France, Italy, Portugal, Spain WERE hit, and hit quite hard. There in former WEST Germany have never since 1950 been as many people on welfare as in the past two years. Look at banking in France, a disaster. The rest of Europe was hit at the same time as the U.K., and in some countries, the counter-measures of the governments worked, more or less, while in others, the measures did not work.

Last edited by Wollishofener; 09.06.2011 at 12:42.
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  #33  
Old 09.06.2011, 10:04
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Re: Feeling a little justified...?

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Pay rises below inflation, food and fuel costs rising above inflation, streets cleaned less often...I could go on... Depending on your needs, the cuts can impact greatly.

Central governments cut local councils budgets, local taxes go up.
That is because people have been living beyond their means (credit for trash) for the last 10 years. The government has been promoting it because they got the VAT Revenue and created Quangos and unnecessary council/government jobs all driven on consumer credit.
Now we have exactly the opposite. No credit, so No sales so No VAT Revenue, so no need for sales People, so no Jobs, so no PAYE/NI Revenue in, but Tax Credits/Job Seekers Allowance/Housing benefit/Council Tax Exemption being paid out.
The really disappointing thing is, is that it is now the middle working class that has to pay for it all.
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  #34  
Old 09.06.2011, 10:06
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Re: Feeling a little justified...?

I don't think Switzerland will be too much affected by a weak Euro zone, after all we import much more than we export to it, and goods exported are not as volatile to the economic cycle (relatively spoken). What I worry more about is an eventual slow-down of China's economy, that will hit Switzerland much harder. No precision machinery for the Chinese manufacturing company, no contracts for Schindler&ABB, no Rolex for the party official. But that will hit Germany equally hard, so relatively spoken Switzerland's economy will remain relatively strong compared to its neighbours, albeit weakened, or that's what I think.

I don't think relocating to a prosperous economy has much to do with luck, or that you shouldn't join the bandwaggon, it's fairly predictable in the medium term, no economic miracles really. It's just that most people don't just relocate for the money, the Spanish youth isn't all over Europe, you don't see them filling the vacant engineering spots in Germany, and who can blame them? I'd rather live in Spain (with a job!) too.
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  #35  
Old 09.06.2011, 10:07
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indicates that it is Tony Blair and Gordon Brown who were to blame by your timeframe. So the question. What did they wrong ? And why does it look as if the Cameron government does not succeed in rectifying what went wrong ?
Governments are never to blame when the economy takes a dive and never to be given credit on the upswing. These things are economic, governed and piloted by the invisible hand of the markets.

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Pay rises below inflation,
Although clearly pay rises about falling house prices the (or should be) biggest component of the inflation basket and most people's biggest expense. It's a real economy (not a protectionist oligopoly) and one where the average joe can, in the good times, which is most of the time, afford to eat out regularly, go to the pub, smoke, get Sky tv with all the channels and take a package week away to Ibiza once a year.
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  #36  
Old 09.06.2011, 10:10
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Re: Feeling a little justified...?

I decided to get out when Labour came to power, perhaps a naive decision at the time , or based on fear and uncertainty. The right decision for the wrong reasons, or whatever. Sadly, it didn't seem to bad when they were in power, because, I believe, they maintained a shroud of deception on public over spending, borrowing and management of the same. Only when they were voted out, did the real truth, and the extent of the damage come to light. Sadly the Conservatives will shoulder most of the blame, and will be restricted in their financial prowess in building the recovery due to inheriting so much debt. I beleive they will make the right decisions and get UK PLC running again...

But not for another 7-10 years. Hence my smugness at deciding to move away from the UK, and being delighted to be living on an Island of relative financial stability.
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Old 09.06.2011, 10:13
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Re: Feeling a little justified...?

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But not for another 7-10 years. Hence my smugness at deciding to move away from the UK, and being delighted to be living on an Island of relative financial stability.
Or move back now when there's blood on the streets, buy 5 flats in a bad part of Manchester while they're dirt cheap and retire in 10 years. Thing about a stable economy is that it never goes wrong, but then it never goes right either.
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Old 09.06.2011, 10:19
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Re: Feeling a little justified...?

It depends on what you define as enjoyable. Happy you moved from a vibrant, awake, lively country like England to the quiet, cocooned, unfriendly and rich country of Switzerland, which is rich partly because it banks money from dictators and despots ?

Financially England is harder at the moment, but money is not everything in life.

In any case, the public sector is taking the battering. If you worked in the private sector as many on here do, then the private sector is doing well now and there are many new jobs being created.

You may not mean to sound smug, but the way it comes across it doesnt seem anything other than laughing at other peoples misfortune.
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Old 09.06.2011, 10:21
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Re: Feeling a little justified...?

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...so relatively spoken Switzerland's economy will remain relatively strong compared to its neighbours, albeit weakened, or that's what I think.
The Swiss economy is bound to stagnate as forced aggregate demand cannot sustain actual growth in the long run. In addition, having great dependency on a highly skilled and underskilled foreign workforce whilst displaying an antagonistic attitude towards the very same foreigner is certainly a path to self-destruction.
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Old 09.06.2011, 10:22
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Re: Feeling a little justified...?

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You are outdated. Switzerland has NOT to follow as it went through that mess at the same time it started in the U.K.

The biggest bank now is on welfare from the union and the second is partially owned now by the State of Kuwait. Inbound tourism (nr 2 of the CH economy) at least in the countryside is in deep distress. People in the export-industry and in the freight business had to lower their margins by up to 60%. Similar with services like book-sales etc.

Back to the U.K..
> What about the oil revenues ? Have the oil-reserves in the North Sea been exploited too much ?
> What you say about the young generation had, with some "seasonal" differences, already been side by "older" people in the Roman Empire, the Pharaonic Kingdoms of Egypt and Babylonia/Assyria
The problems may have just started in the UK. There are a lot more problems to come.
In Switzerland, there really has been few issues as yet especially regarding unemployment compared to the majority of EC and USA.
There are still more repercussions to come for the US Dollar and the Euro and the world banks including Swiss banks.

The UK oil revenues were taken for granted and the taxes on the oil squandered by the governments.
Yep, I can agree that the EC is probably going through something like the back end of the Roman Empire.

The thing that will effect the West (including Switzerland) is the living longer of people regarding pensions and health care especially as we are not saving as are parents did and are living a lot longer and the majority going to rely on the government handouts that will not be there.
One will probably find in the next 20 years that euthanasia will be promoted by the governments.
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