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Old 27.06.2011, 11:43
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Zurich and Europe stifles drivers in favor of alternatives

I read this ARTICLE in NYT and it really intrigued me. I do support such policy. I even avoid public transport when is possible. What are your thoughts about it? How annoying for the drivers in EF that could be?
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Old 27.06.2011, 11:54
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Re: Zurich and Europe stifles drivers in favor of alternatives

Any chance of a summary? (NYT only lets you read 20 articles per month, after that it's behind a paywall.)
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Old 27.06.2011, 12:00
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Re: Zurich and Europe stifles drivers in favor of alternatives

American cities are trying to improve driver friendliness, while European cities are doing the opposite.

"To that end, the municipal Traffic Planning Department here in Zurich has been working overtime in recent years to torment drivers."

It then goes on to give facts like pedestrianisation not leading to a loss in business.

Given the reliability, regularity and ease of use of the public transport system across most of Switzerland, I can't really grasp why anyone would want to take their car into the city. I don't find the restrictions at all annoying.
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Old 27.06.2011, 12:10
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Re: Zurich and Europe stifles drivers in favor of alternatives

The line I found particularly interesting is
Quote:
Mr. Fellmann calculated that a person using a car took up 115 cubic meters (roughly 4,000 cubic feet) of urban space in Zurich while a pedestrian took three. “So it’s not really fair to everyone else if you take the car,” he said.
Would property/rental prices in the city be cheaper if no cars were allowed at all (hypothetically, of course)?
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Old 27.06.2011, 21:35
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Re: Zurich and Europe stifles drivers in favor of alternatives

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I read this ARTICLE in NYT and it really intrigued me. I do support such policy. I even avoid public transport when is possible. What are your thoughts about it? How annoying for the drivers in EF that could be?
A well written article and very objective. But that city official, Mr Marzolini, apparently is either a teenager or dementia-ridden, as in Zürich, traffic lights WERE synchronized in the 1960ies/70ies, but DE-synchronized in the 1980ies and 90ies .

Last edited by Wollishofener; 27.06.2011 at 22:58.
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Old 27.06.2011, 22:14
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Re: Zurich and Europe stifles drivers in favor of alternatives

hey all,

i see the problem this way if you drive with your job and have too look for parking spots all day, it can get really annoying, as well as parking half way across the city to get to your destination, with tools, and appliances. which then you will probaly half to walk back and forth half a day long.
so in that case the customer is not happy for it taking so long and receiving a bill with a large price, for something that needed to be down which was a small job that was needed done.
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Old 27.06.2011, 22:18
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Re: Zurich and Europe stifles drivers in favor of alternatives

Recent trips to Lugano show that free parking for motorcycles has exploded! The Posta parking lot is now motorcycle only, and the lot at the Civico is also overflowing with bikes, which is free for motorcycles!

Tom
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Old 28.06.2011, 07:35
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Re: Zurich and Europe stifles drivers in favor of alternatives

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Recent trips to Lugano show that free parking for motorcycles has exploded! The Posta parking lot is now motorcycle only, and the lot at the Civico is also overflowing with bikes, which is free for motorcycles!

Tom
And this is how it's supposed to be
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Old 28.06.2011, 08:04
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Re: Zurich and Europe stifles drivers in favor of alternatives

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I read this ARTICLE in NYT and it really intrigued me. I do support such policy. I even avoid public transport when is possible. What are your thoughts about it? How annoying for the drivers in EF that could be?
With the over-use of cars and the inherent traffic congestion, accidents and polution they bring, getting people out of their cars and either car sharing, using bikes or on public transport is the way to go.

Only the me-centric, car-defined, obesity-leading US and short-sighted people would fail to see the sense of it.

As an anecdote, a friend of ours was at a pre-natal physio class doing her pelvic floor exercises, when she was told that there is a rise is incontinance amongst teenagers because they've always been ferried around in cars and never had to walk anywhere or do serious exercise. Now I've no idea if this is true or not, but we are, as a race, becoming more sedentary and anything to break that cycle, along with reducing our consumption and over-reliance on cars is a good thing.

My only caveat is that suitable, safe and workable alternatives need to be provided. In CH they are. In the UK they are not, but they still make it hard for car-drivers.
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Old 28.06.2011, 08:23
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Re: Zurich and Europe stifles drivers in favor of alternatives

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A well written article and very objective. But that city official, Mr Marzolini, apparently is either a teenager or dementia-ridden, as in Zürich, traffic lights WERE synchronized in the 1960ies/70ies, but DE-synchronized in the 1980ies and 90ies .
And currently?? Well Seestrasse (Gold coast side) is all synchronized.

A balance has to be drawn will trying to discourage drivers - and actually ensuring that drivers make progress. The motorway that now goes round the south of city shows they are trying to reduce cross city traffic. Once the tunnels are finished that should help at peak times.

Zurich and peak times is a breeze compare to London - and yes I know the size/density/etc arguments
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Old 28.06.2011, 08:26
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Re: Zurich and Europe stifles drivers in favor of alternatives

I don't know how much is it the parking per hour around quai Mont Blanc in Geneva, but there is a colleague of mine which every two hours is out of the office to feed the parking meter with coins. If my calculations are not wrong he is wasting nearly an hour of his working hours to do this
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Old 28.06.2011, 09:04
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Re: Zurich and Europe stifles drivers in favor of alternatives

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safe and workable alternatives need to be provided. In CH they are.
Only in some places, outside of major cities, personal transport is still a necessity.

Tom
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Old 28.06.2011, 09:10
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Re: Zurich and Europe stifles drivers in favor of alternatives

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Only in some places, outside of major cities, personal transport is still a necessity.

Tom
Outside major cities? Nope. It is not a necessity. It makes life easier, for sure, but it is not a necessity. In most places in CH there's a Postbus service at a minimum.

In absolute rural areas, I'd probably agree. But congestion is mainly an urban issue anyway, so this is somewhat of a red-herring.
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Old 28.06.2011, 09:21
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Re: Zurich and Europe stifles drivers in favor of alternatives

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Outside major cities? Nope. It is not a necessity. It makes life easier, for sure, but it is not a necessity. In most places in CH there's a Postbus service at a minimum.
Yes, but the last one is at 7PM.

For commuting to work, home for lunch, it doesn't work for most people.

Tom
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Old 28.06.2011, 09:56
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Re: Zurich and Europe stifles drivers in favor of alternatives

Do we need to recycle the same old arguments?
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Old 28.06.2011, 10:00
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Re: Zurich and Europe stifles drivers in favor of alternatives

Driving through Altendorf frustrates me.
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Old 28.06.2011, 10:07
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Re: Zurich and Europe stifles drivers in favor of alternatives

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Yes, but the last one is at 7PM.

For commuting to work, home for lunch, it doesn't work for most people.

Tom
Most Swiss I know are out the door by 17:01 or 17:31 depending on workplace...
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Old 28.06.2011, 10:18
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Re: Zurich and Europe stifles drivers in favor of alternatives

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I read this ARTICLE in NYT and it really intrigued me. I do support such policy. I even avoid public transport when is possible. What are your thoughts about it? How annoying for the drivers in EF that could be?
I think my 20 stone car-bound tinted glasses wearing bearded halitosis inflicted driving instructor of yester year wrote that article. Trust the Americans to be shocked and appalled that we in the civilised world would like the city centres to be car free and a nice place for pedestrians to actually walk without choking to death on C02 or being mowed down by idiots.
But then why should I be surprised that even a so called 'left wing' news paper like the New York Times is publishing such garbage, I just heard the political and social views of the next president of the US Michele Bachmann.... Jesus H Christ ... who are these people that live over there in the 'free world'?
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Old 28.06.2011, 23:26
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Re: Zurich and Europe stifles drivers in favor of alternatives

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And currently?? Well Seestrasse (Gold coast side) is all synchronized.

A balance has to be drawn will trying to discourage drivers - and actually ensuring that drivers make progress. The motorway that now goes round the south of city shows they are trying to reduce cross city traffic. Once the tunnels are finished that should help at peak times.

Zurich and peak times is a breeze compare to London - and yes I know the size/density/etc arguments
As I remember, London is slightly larger But the "greenish" local politicians in both places are very similar.

And you mention Seestrasse. Look at Seestrasse/AlteLangstrasse on the other side of the lake, and see how it was in about 1970 and how it is now. Look at Mythenquai or at Brandschenkestrasse/Pelikanstrasse then and now. Or in Seefeld, look at Bellerivestrasse, Dufourstrasse and Seefeldstrasse then and now


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Most Swiss I know are out the door by 17:01 or 17:31 depending on workplace...
People I know get out from work between 18.00 and 20.00, depending on workplace


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Old 28.06.2011, 23:36
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Re: Zurich and Europe stifles drivers in favor of alternatives

If only the trains were cleaner, air-conditioned and had space for luggage. I was shocked on my return at how dirty and impractical the S2 train from ZRH into Zurich seemed after using both the Seattle light rail system from Seatac into downtown Seattle and the BART from San Francisco International Airport into downtown San Francisco this month both of which had far cleaner seats, were not uncomfortably hot and had bags of space for luggage. All far removed from popular public (mis)conception.
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