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  #141  
Old 08.07.2011, 11:19
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Re: Angry Swiss dude

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Well, you're certainly living in the wrong country then!

Tom
owners ? soldiers do NOT "own" the guns. The guns are owned by the armed forces, just as most of the other military stuff (some 30 kgs !) . The handing back at age 44 (approx) is quite a ceremony and most of the soldiers really celebrate to get rid of that whole stuff

So, no no no, very few gun-owners really
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  #142  
Old 08.07.2011, 11:45
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Re: Angry Swiss dude

How about calling Ch...hill & Partner or ..vere Group, give the angry guys name and set up an apointment at his flat ?

Doc.
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  #143  
Old 08.07.2011, 11:50
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Re: Angry Swiss dude

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owners ? soldiers do NOT "own" the guns. The guns are owned by the armed forces, just as most of the other military stuff (some 30 kgs !) . The handing back at age 44 (approx) is quite a ceremony and most of the soldiers really celebrate to get rid of that whole stuff

So, no no no, very few gun-owners really
Only a few million or so!

"In some 2001 statistics, it is noted that there are about 420,000 assault rifles stored at private homes, mostly SIG SG 550 types. Additionally, there are some 320,000 assault rifles and military pistols exempted from military service in private possession, all selective-fire weapons having been converted to semi-automatic operation only. In addition, there are several hundred thousand other semi-automatic small arms classified as carbines. The total number of firearms in private homes is estimated minimally at 1.2 million to 3 million."

Tom
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  #144  
Old 08.07.2011, 11:51
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Re: Angry Swiss dude

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owners ? soldiers do NOT "own" the guns. The guns are owned by the armed forces, just as most of the other military stuff (some 30 kgs !) . The handing back at age 44 (approx) is quite a ceremony and most of the soldiers really celebrate to get rid of that whole stuff
However, handing them back is optional, not mandatory.

Tom
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  #145  
Old 08.07.2011, 12:09
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Re: Angry Swiss dude

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However, handing them back is optional, not mandatory.

Tom
And a used SIG 550 sells for 1000-1200 CHF in CH in the fully legal second hand market. Why give it back if you can sell it for that much?
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  #146  
Old 08.07.2011, 17:53
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Re: Angry Swiss dude

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Only a few million or so!

"In some 2001 statistics, it is noted that there are about 420,000 assault rifles stored at private homes, mostly SIG SG 550 types. Additionally, there are some 320,000 assault rifles and military pistols exempted from military service in private possession, all selective-fire weapons having been converted to semi-automatic operation only. In addition, there are several hundred thousand other semi-automatic small arms classified as carbines. The total number of firearms in private homes is estimated minimally at 1.2 million to 3 million."

Tom
1.2 mio. in total may be, but many of them NOT "operational" but decor. 3 mio. is nonsense. Had my brother still been alive when I "handed back" I would have fought for ways either to retain or to regain the weapon for him. The idea was not practical use, but it would have been hung up at a wall in his living room in a most decorative way. I know at least two chaps who have it at home in the attic as a piece of nostalgia, but not in use either. But most, either on their own will or under pressure from mothers and/or wifes, forget about it. I presume that I am still counted as a "gun holder" as a lot of registration is done when you get it and an astonishing lack of formality when you return it.
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  #147  
Old 08.07.2011, 18:02
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Re: Angry Swiss dude

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However, handing them back is optional, not mandatory.

Tom
Optional for the (civil) authorities, but MANDATORY for the armed forces. Unless you participated in the "Feldschiessen" (only a very small minority does do so) you are not allowed simply to retain it, but have to regain it under a complicated procedure or on the free market by purchase.

The handing-back even is controlled by the number of the gun, so that carrying the gun of a relative with you will not help at all.

The number of my rifle was 215928 . Strange is that the outdated thing in the meantime most likely was sold on the free market and may now be in private possession somewhere
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  #148  
Old 08.07.2011, 18:09
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Re: Angry Swiss dude

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And a used SIG 550 sells for 1000-1200 CHF in CH in the fully legal second hand market. Why give it back if you can sell it for that much?
You HAVE to hand it back and are controlled on that. It is sold by the army later, and the traders of course have a nice margin.

True, in the early 1980ies, people who came to the end of their military time could retain the weapon for about CHF 50.-- plus some registration formality. But in the 1990ies, this chance was restricted to the active participants of the Feldschiessen (accessible only for very good shooters anyway).

Sure, if you join a shooting association, you will be offered purchases of such weaponry for a fairly civil price, as those association purchase the material bulkwise.
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  #149  
Old 08.07.2011, 18:51
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Re: Angry Swiss dude

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You HAVE to hand it back and are controlled on that. It is sold by the army later, and the traders of course have a nice margin.

True, in the early 1980ies, people who came to the end of their military time could retain the weapon for about CHF 50.-- plus some registration formality. But in the 1990ies, this chance was restricted to the active participants of the Feldschiessen (accessible only for very good shooters anyway).

Sure, if you join a shooting association, you will be offered purchases of such weaponry for a fairly civil price, as those association purchase the material bulkwise.
When I google "Überlassung" in combination with Armeewaffe do I get lots of fairly official links from anywhere in the parliament to the army themselves telling me that a soldier leaving the army can buy his assault rifle for 100 CHF or his pistol for 30 CHF.

Not some super-soldiers, but anyone. Here is one of the many links: http://www.sz.ch/xml_1/internet/de/a...1866/p1880.cfm
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  #150  
Old 08.07.2011, 22:03
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Re: Angry Swiss dude

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When I google "Überlassung" in combination with Armeewaffe do I get lots of fairly official links from anywhere in the parliament to the army themselves telling me that a soldier leaving the army can buy his assault rifle for 100 CHF or his pistol for 30 CHF.

Not some super-soldiers, but anyone. Here is one of the many links: http://www.sz.ch/xml_1/internet/de/a...1866/p1880.cfm
No Sir, this is wrong. I with all the others in the hall was told by the Colonel in charge that we COULD NOT BUY it, I checked it with other people and got it confirmed that up from the mid80ies there was NO CHANCE at all to buy your weapon, UNLESS you were active in the FELDSCHIESSEN. And I for example, on the results of the Obligatorische, would never had any chance at all to participate there. The level required to go there in fact is fairly high. And I had heard this already before from my Captain, Mr Magni, who for sure was NOT a liar. My sources are NOT "fairly official" but actually THE ARMY . This may have changed in recent years again, as "our" rifles in the meantime were replaced by a new weapon, but what I say was absolute and definite reality between 1985 and 2000 . Do not forget that people who in the late 1960ies and in the 1970ies wanted to retain their Karabiner could do so very easily


THIS here was "our" weapon











while THIS here is the new one, just about 65% as long as
the one above, and only about 50% in weight
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  #151  
Old 09.07.2011, 11:13
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Re: Angry Swiss dude

So how did my mate inherit her fathers after he died?

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You HAVE to hand it back and are controlled on that. It is sold by the army later, and the traders of course have a nice margin.

True, in the early 1980ies, people who came to the end of their military time could retain the weapon for about CHF 50.-- plus some registration formality. But in the 1990ies, this chance was restricted to the active participants of the Feldschiessen (accessible only for very good shooters anyway).

Sure, if you join a shooting association, you will be offered purchases of such weaponry for a fairly civil price, as those association purchase the material bulkwise.
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  #152  
Old 09.07.2011, 11:18
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Re: Angry Swiss dude

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So how did my mate inherit her fathers after he died?
How disappointed would you be??

Sitting there at the Will reading expecting a tidy little nest egg or at least a treasured set of cufflinks and you come out with a big gun.
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  #153  
Old 09.07.2011, 11:23
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Re: Angry Swiss dude

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How disappointed would you be??

Sitting there at the Will reading expecting a tidy little nest egg or at least a treasured set of cufflinks and you come out with a big gun.
Yes, but then at least you'd have the means to deal with whoever it was who had inherited the dosh that was rightly your's
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  #154  
Old 09.07.2011, 11:34
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Re: Angry Swiss dude

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So how did my mate inherit her fathers after he died?
Simple. I suppose that the "father" in question was shooting well and participated in the Feldschiessen Program, OR that he had to hand the stuff back between 1972 and 1985 and so could easily buy "his" weapon.

I am sure that the weapon you speak about was "downgraded" from semi-automatic to non-automatic by a short "surgery" on the middle-left position (white inside -- black outside), making it legally a "non-military weapon".
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Old 09.07.2011, 11:42
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Re: Angry Swiss dude

Of course is Wolli correct: if some guy told him in the 1980s that he cannot keep the gun, it must be impossible.

Ignore my post to the cantonal regulations that even gave a price list, ignore that the political left has currently an initiative to stop to sponsor the guns but at least ask "market prices" from the ex-soldiers for them... and don't trust the media who claims that every fourth soldier takes his gun home after finishing service: http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/zuerich/...story/23993663 718 guns a year only for the city of Zurich.

But if Wolli wasn't good enough at shooting to keep it, nobody is.
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Old 09.07.2011, 12:03
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Re: Angry Swiss dude

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Of course is Wolli correct: if some guy told him in the 1980s that he cannot keep the gun, it must be impossible.

Ignore my post to the cantonal regulations that even gave a price list, ignore that the political left has currently an initiative to stop to sponsor the guns but at least ask "market prices" from the ex-soldiers for them... and don't trust the media who claims that every fourth soldier takes his gun home after finishing service: http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/zuerich/...story/23993663 718 guns a year only for the city of Zurich.

But if Wolli wasn't good enough at shooting to keep it, nobody is.
A) Cantonal regulations ? No, it is neither Municipal nor Cantonal and in a way not even UNION, it is the MILITARY (even different laws and different courts ! )
B) Price lists ? ok, tell me the years in which each of the weapons was put into service PLUS the year when it was sold out by the army
C) The media claims it correctly right NOW, as the old rifles, as outlined above with pictures !!! , are now no longer required and so are NOW liberally given away
D) 718 alone for the City of Zurich per year ? Imagine that in a single hall, there are more than 1000 people handing back the material and there are quite many such occasions per year. I might have expected it to be 7180 rifles per year in the City of Zurich alone. So that your number is VERY low and NOT high at all
E) what the "political left" is asking for is that the army should demand those prices traders ask for if selling to customers, but NOT what the traders are ready to pay to the army if buying wholesale
E-2) you quite obviously missed out on purchasing Jeeps, tanks, staff-motor-cars (Opel Rekord) and other hardware at army-auctions throughout the country over the past 30 years ???
E-3) so what the "political left" is doing here is just cheap demagogery and not serious politics.
F) good enough ? I know a chap who repeated the Obligatorische three times to get to the "Feldschiessen-level" just in order to retain his weapon, which now is resting in his attic
F-2) Had my brother still been alive in autumn 94 I might have reverted to such plays, but as not, I handed it over to the lieutenant taking over the rifles with the remark "my brother has died two months ago, and so I am no longer interested in this piece of shit" --- the poor lieutenant was shocked to an extent I almost (but only almost) was sorry for the chap
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  #157  
Old 09.07.2011, 12:16
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Re: Angry Swiss dude

I just read a fascinating chapter in my book about Egyptians having sex with crocodiles.
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  #158  
Old 09.07.2011, 12:32
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Re: Angry Swiss dude

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I just read a fascinating chapter in my book about Egyptians having sex with crocodiles.
This is not worse than Swiss officers telling you that you now are married to a rifle

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Old 10.07.2011, 20:39
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Re: Angry Swiss dude

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I don't either. And neither do my Swiss or US friends. In the UK those who organise illegal dog fighting and badger baiting always state that they love their dogs more than anything else - despite the fact they train them to tear each other and other animals apart. I've seen grown men cry in court when their are convicted and their dogs taken away. But we digress, sorry.

I am indeed a gutsy person, and don't let many intimidate me. However, you have 2 choices now- fight and make things much worse- or do your best to diffuse the situation, knowing that YOU are in the right, even if it means a small gesture of goodwill. But I'd say, talk to his wife and get her to see it was a genuine mistake. Good luck. Life's too short to make enemies, if it can at all be avoided.
And boring without
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