Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Daily life  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #61  
Old 10.07.2011, 14:26
NotAllThere's Avatar
Modulo 2
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Baselland
Posts: 14,478
Groaned at 276 Times in 237 Posts
Thanked 21,688 Times in 8,801 Posts
NotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Virtual grieving, why do we do it?

Quote:
View Post
Its a characteristic of we British to be more comfortable in commenting widely, critically & publically on other cultures displays of emotion, than on displaying it ourselves. I always regarded it as a failing of ours to be happier to criticise than to feel able to open ourselves to the emotion.

I think thats why the Diana thing was such a shock that the country seemingly changed character overnight. Thats what comes of showing Rikki Lake on TV i guess
According to a documentary about crying (with Jo Brand), the "stiff upper lip" was really something that arose over the world wars. Before then, such displays of public grief were not unusual.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank NotAllThere for this useful post:
  #62  
Old 10.07.2011, 15:28
Uncle Max's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Züri
Posts: 7,553
Groaned at 164 Times in 105 Posts
Thanked 8,424 Times in 3,486 Posts
Uncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Virtual grieving, why do we do it?

Nobody would deem genuine emotional expression inappropriate in the right place at the right time and there's the rub.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Uncle Max for this useful post:
  #63  
Old 10.07.2011, 16:36
MusicChick's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 17,488
Groaned at 414 Times in 275 Posts
Thanked 20,428 Times in 10,577 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Virtual grieving, why do we do it?

Where is the greaving viewed as inappropriate, incorrect, this is so subjective...is it the fact the person might be not in cotrol over wording things well? Or being clumsy with words....or listing things the way it puts him/her in the spotlight instead of the deceased one...it's too hard to comment on interent communication. We can so hurt people acusing them of fake and dramatic intentions. Do people write things because they think it is expected, since everyone here does...the pressure...Where is it inability to word things the way WE see appropriate, and when it's just people being themselves, not filtering since it helps them cope...I can't comment on other people's grieving, really, nor if internet is the right way, or wrong, or if it makes people flaky or not, or if we might have more right to be critical of what we see written down, instead of overhear spoken...

This will feel ill taste, since I don't want to have any attention, and especially about something that I feel I haven't really coped with, still, but voila. When my best friend and bass player jumped off the rock, our lives stopped. We were so young, and didn't know how to process it. We felt guilty for ever day we were alive and he was not. The helicopter doc who tried to put him together in those few hours until our friend died in the woods, changing his mind and wanting to live again, gave in his license and never returned to medicine. We shut off, our band didn't communicate, we went our own ways. We weren't even able to hang together, anymore. Internet grieving, public display of emotions, who cares how dramatic, wasn't done then. Nothing prepared us, no slow illness, no warning, it was gruesome and terryfying, visual images haunting..

What if sharing things online was possible, and we would have poured our crap out there, in dispair, giving ourselves chance to move on...My thoughts would have been different today, I would be more in peace with the fact there is no more Mirek.

There is no more fine blond girl, who had guts to move over and root herself in a completely foreign place, injecting people with lust for life. Should she have been killed at home, with buddies around to grieve at her home, and family, and familiar places and schools and workmates missing her presence, things would make more sense. But she was here for a short while, relatively, so maybe if the reaction is seen as over the top, maybe it is because people feel it and want to make up for it. I think it might be difficult to understand for those, who were either born here or lived here for decades and had the chance to make impact in this place as a home setting.

I prefer quietly attaching myself to routines as I know them, in times of distress. I am no stiff upper lip, Czechs are dry, but dignity, sense of familiarity and normalcy keep my head above water in difficult times. Other people give in emotions and sharing it with others, it's no worse or better. Catharsis. It's just a different way to mourn, to keep being alive, to process sadness.

I don't see virtual grieving, if it is genuine, as nothing else, than just verbalizing things, one feels/thinks. I would never dare making a public comment questioning people's genuinity since I want to think they are being genuine and it is helping them.
__________________
"L'homme ne peut pas remplacer son coeur avec sa tete, ni sa tete avec ses mains." J.H. Pestalozzi

“The only difference between a rut and a grave is a matter of depth.” S.P. Cadman

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." A. Einstein

Last edited by MusicChick; 10.07.2011 at 23:31. Reason: sp.
Reply With Quote
The following 13 users would like to thank MusicChick for this useful post:
  #64  
Old 10.07.2011, 17:46
Assassin's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Chasing clouds
Posts: 4,023
Groaned at 180 Times in 123 Posts
Thanked 11,560 Times in 3,148 Posts
Assassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Virtual grieving, why do we do it?

Quote:
View Post
Nobody would deem genuine emotional expression inappropriate in the right place at the right time and there's the rub.
I don't think that anyone would have an issue with your statement, but if you can define "genuine" and "right place and right time" that works for all concerned, then you by default, would be the proud owner of a limitless supply of Scooby Snacks.

Last edited by Assassin; 10.07.2011 at 23:24.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Assassin for this useful post:
  #65  
Old 10.07.2011, 20:46
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: St Elsewhere
Posts: 332
Groaned at 15 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 320 Times in 151 Posts
Brass427 has earned the respect of manyBrass427 has earned the respect of manyBrass427 has earned the respect of many
Re: Virtual grieving, why do we do it?

Quote:
View Post
I'm so very sorry for your losses
Perfect example.
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 10.07.2011, 21:02
Leni's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Sunny Solothurn
Posts: 942
Groaned at 8 Times in 6 Posts
Thanked 765 Times in 406 Posts
Leni has a reputation beyond reputeLeni has a reputation beyond reputeLeni has a reputation beyond reputeLeni has a reputation beyond reputeLeni has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Virtual grieving, why do we do it?

I think it is Zeitgeist.
The times we live in demand different 'appropriate' reactions.
Once, grief was a very private thing. Now, empathy and outpouring is the great public bond. On many levels.

The mourning of Diana marked the beginning of the sea change.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Leni for this useful post:
  #67  
Old 10.07.2011, 21:13
Lou's Avatar
Lou Lou is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Zurich
Posts: 3,778
Groaned at 9 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 3,227 Times in 1,474 Posts
Lou has a reputation beyond reputeLou has a reputation beyond reputeLou has a reputation beyond reputeLou has a reputation beyond reputeLou has a reputation beyond reputeLou has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Virtual grieving, why do we do it?

I see where you are coming from but i don't agree with you. In some cultures shared grief is still very common just as it used to be in Britain and still is in many parts especially the more rural areas. My first Irish funeral was quite an eye opener, the entire community came together to greive for my husbands grandmother. This was only a few years ago.

Beggas death and the grief shown here on the forum to me is just an extension of that community greiving. I did not know her so while her death made me sad it was not grief as such I felt but I did shed a tear or two reading the posts from her friends as they were all truly moving. Reading about the death of one so young & full of life also opened up old wounds for me of friends lost over the years, they are always in the back of my mind and an event like this brings them right to the front again therefore, I along with many others, can truly empathise with what her friends are experiencing right now.

Quote:
View Post
I think it is Zeitgeist.
The times we live in demand different 'appropriate' reactions.
Once, grief was a very private thing. Now, empathy and outpouring is the great public bond. On many levels.

The mourning of Diana marked the beginning of the sea change.
__________________
“Photography is a way of feeling, of touching, of loving. What you have caught on film is captured forever… It remembers little things, long after you have forgotten everything.”
– Aaron Siskind
Reply With Quote
The following 7 users would like to thank Lou for this useful post:
  #68  
Old 10.07.2011, 21:40
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
View Post
I think it is Zeitgeist.
The times we live in demand different 'appropriate' reactions.
Once, grief was a very private thing. Now, empathy and outpouring is the great public bond. On many levels.

The mourning of Diana marked the beginning of the sea change.
The funeral of JFK in 1963 was a very public event, lots of shared grief. In the 1920's, there was a mob of hysterical fans at the viewing for actor Rudolf Valentino. And, i am sure there are other examples in the past.

However it's a lot easier now with TV and internet to engage in sharing grief from wherever you are. And this might be the difference...but communities have always shared grief. The difference now is in the definition of community.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #69  
Old 10.07.2011, 22:18
Leni's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Sunny Solothurn
Posts: 942
Groaned at 8 Times in 6 Posts
Thanked 765 Times in 406 Posts
Leni has a reputation beyond reputeLeni has a reputation beyond reputeLeni has a reputation beyond reputeLeni has a reputation beyond reputeLeni has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Virtual grieving, why do we do it?

Quote:
The funeral of JFK in 1963 was a very public event, lots of shared grief. In the 1920's, there was a mob of hysterical fans at the viewing for actor Rudolf Valentino. And, i am sure there are other examples in the past.

However it's a lot easier now with TV and internet to engage in sharing grief from wherever you are. And this might be the difference...but communities have always shared grief. The difference now is in the definition of community.
Hmm. Good point.
Perhaps I am viewing this in a slightly too British way. We haven't had many outpourings that I can remember. Perhaps our upper lips were just too stiff before and now even we have gotten in touch with our emotional sides.
I remember not being allowed to attend funerals as a child as it wasn't the done thing.........and for the adults, only muffled tears followed by restorative tea and sandwiches.
I do know that Queen Victoria made mourning 'popular' when Prince Albert died in 1861, via the wearing of black for a certain period and even mourning jewellery. It was like a 'trend' in England (not that I'm quite old enough to remember this personally)!

Does anyone know when the practice of laying flowers at scenes of accidents started? Or where it originated?
I remember a time when it wasn't the norm.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 10.07.2011, 23:21
Sagitta's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Winterthur
Posts: 706
Groaned at 3 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 1,174 Times in 489 Posts
Sagitta has a reputation beyond reputeSagitta has a reputation beyond reputeSagitta has a reputation beyond reputeSagitta has a reputation beyond reputeSagitta has a reputation beyond reputeSagitta has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Virtual grieving, why do we do it?

For the last few days I've been asking myself why I am grieving for the death of a person I didn't know.

I believe that being part of a community one absorbs its spirit (or the collective unconscious as Jung would call it). This community has suffered an irretrievable loss. My sadness has been very real to me, although I can't even begin to compare my pain to the pain of those closest to Begga.

I also wondered about the words 'real' and 'virtual". Who knows what reality is? Don't we all live in the world of the mind? Communicating in 'virtual' reality we often share our deepest thoughts and dreams. Together we try to come to terms with tragedy. Thanks to this forum Begga will never be forgotten - for real.

What MusicChick wrote resonated with me:

Quote:
View Post
"But she was here for a short while, relatively, so maybe if the reaction is seen as over the top, maybe it is because people feel it and want to make up for it".

Before the Internet only high profile deaths of the rich and famous were 'made up for.' Not so any more. "Any man's death diminishes me"...

Last edited by Longbyt; 10.07.2011 at 23:27. Reason: corrected quote
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Sagitta for this useful post:
  #71  
Old 11.07.2011, 12:41
Leni's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Sunny Solothurn
Posts: 942
Groaned at 8 Times in 6 Posts
Thanked 765 Times in 406 Posts
Leni has a reputation beyond reputeLeni has a reputation beyond reputeLeni has a reputation beyond reputeLeni has a reputation beyond reputeLeni has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Virtual grieving, why do we do it?

As I didn't really know Begga, I felt I wasn't entitled to grieve - don't know why.
You feel affected, shocked - but it's hard to express it - as if the moving, touching words could only come from people who really knew her.

The things which upset me the most were the tragic circumstances surrounding her death and her young age. Such a waste. It seemed unfair and I actually felt guilty that I have had 15 more years than she will ever have
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank Leni for this useful post:
  #72  
Old 11.07.2011, 12:46
Nickers's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zurich
Posts: 3,693
Groaned at 41 Times in 35 Posts
Thanked 4,899 Times in 1,697 Posts
Nickers has a reputation beyond reputeNickers has a reputation beyond reputeNickers has a reputation beyond reputeNickers has a reputation beyond reputeNickers has a reputation beyond reputeNickers has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Virtual grieving, why do we do it?

Quote:
View Post
As I didn't really know Begga, I felt I wasn't entitled to grieve - don't know why.
You feel affected, shocked - but it's hard to express it - as if the moving, touching words could only come from people who really knew her.

The things which upset me the most were the tragic circumstances surrounding her death and her young age. Such a waste. It seemed unfair and I actually felt guilty that I have had 15 more years than she will ever have
This is how i feel. I did know Begga a little, I met her briefly once, interacted with her on facebook and worked on a job with her before she was active on EF - but I didn't really 'know' her, but I was knocked sideways when i heard the news, felt sad, upset, shocked and wanted to say my piece on the mourning thread and her FB page but that was enough said from me a person she hardly knew and vice versa - instead I read with sadness the messages from her close friends and family on both here and FB and feel great sadness at their loss

Last edited by Nickers; 12.07.2011 at 14:07.
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank Nickers for this useful post:
  #73  
Old 12.07.2011, 08:26
swissotter's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: ZH
Posts: 2,303
Groaned at 10 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 3,431 Times in 1,408 Posts
swissotter has a reputation beyond reputeswissotter has a reputation beyond reputeswissotter has a reputation beyond reputeswissotter has a reputation beyond reputeswissotter has a reputation beyond reputeswissotter has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Virtual grieving, why do we do it?

everyone has written so eloquently already on this matter.
as for me, i need EF and FB as i am not in Switzerland anymore, so virtual platforms are the only way I can keep up to date with you all back in Switzerland.
I did know Begga and had already said goodbye when i left. So when i first heard about her accident, I had no one to share my grief with as no one here knew her...so it really helped to read and interact with the updates on EF and FB.
Saying that, it's still a shock, the virtual grieving won't be the same as when i actually visit switzerland again and perhaps meet up with others in reality...
__________________

be the glitch you want to see in the matrix
Reply With Quote
The following 7 users would like to thank swissotter for this useful post:
  #74  
Old 12.07.2011, 08:46
Nev
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Virtual grieving, why do we do it?

Quote:
View Post
As I didn't really know Begga, I felt I wasn't entitled to grieve - don't know why.
You feel affected, shocked....The things which upset me the most were the tragic circumstances surrounding her death and her young age.
Quote:
View Post
I didn't really 'know' her, but I was knocked sideways when i heard the news, felt sad, upset, shocked and wanted to say my piece on the mourning thread
Exactly. There was a range of emotions being expressed:
Personal grief by those who knew her well and who felt the need to mourn;
Shock at the circumstances of her death;
Sadness for a young life a cut tragically short;
Desire to express sympathy for Begga’s friends and family;
Wish to pay respects to a polpular contributor.

In the real world you don't have to know somebody to experience an emotional reaction to a tragedy. Why should the virtual world be any different?
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #75  
Old 12.07.2011, 13:57
Sky's Avatar
Sky Sky is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Somewhere special far away
Posts: 4,318
Groaned at 68 Times in 50 Posts
Thanked 7,173 Times in 2,655 Posts
Sky has a reputation beyond reputeSky has a reputation beyond reputeSky has a reputation beyond reputeSky has a reputation beyond reputeSky has a reputation beyond reputeSky has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Virtual grieving, why do we do it?

People feel grief and pain in many ways. Some need to express it and find words like bandaids for the pain, others close up in silence and are strong for their loved ones and only cry when they are alone at the damnedest of moments. Still others need to reach out and hear and share lovely happy moments to fill the silence that has been left behind.

We just have new means of communication, virtual will become the norm.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Sky for this useful post:
Reply

Tags
death, facebook, friends, grieving, mourning




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Does anyone have experience using a virtual assistant? Aussiegirl Business & entrepreneur 19 22.06.2018 14:30
berlitz virtual classroom zuzuni Language corner 1 12.05.2011 17:35
You and Your Virtual World roamster General off-topic 9 11.04.2010 01:02
Virtual Assistants itnas Business & entrepreneur 0 08.12.2009 19:51
Would you use a virtual golf course? Scuba pro Sports / Fitness / Beauty / Wellness 6 06.06.2009 13:38


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 18:53.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0