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  #41  
Old 11.07.2011, 21:03
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Re: A Swiss thing or just odd behaviour?

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It's the paper supermarket bag. Don't ask why, just tie in a bundle and don't do it again.
I shred anything that has my name or address on it, I then put the shredded paper in a paper Migro's bag and send it for re-cycling. Everything else (cardboard and paper) goes in to a second bag and gets sent off. just How am I supposed to recycle the shredded paper unless I put it in something?

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It's more likely the paper collectors that dumped the shopping bags with the recycling paper. The Zurich city website expressly instructs people NOT to use paper bags because it interferes with the recycling process:



"Paper bags are not collection boxes for paper: They are specially treated and interfere with the recycling process. Therefore will not be taken away by the collection teams."

From here.

I don't think it's them being petty; it simply doesn't recycle properly.
This sounds like the biggest load of horse crap I have ever heard in my life. I know that's what the rule says but this just sounds like a secret problem to justify their ridiculous rule. How am I supposed to recycle the paper bags once they have started to rip? I bet that I would get a fine for not recycling if I just dumped one in the normal trash.
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  #42  
Old 11.07.2011, 21:04
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Re: A Swiss thing or just odd behaviour?

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1. Did you read the post to which this comment referred? It was talking about the other posters who were clearly being observed and told on my their neighbors for non-criminal recycling mistakes. It creates a climate of fear and suspicion.

2. And, do you know how much "rule" material there is to cover as a newcomer? Clearly someone who is putting recycling paper inside of a paper bag is not trying to screw with your system. You can just tell them, hey, dude next time no bag, ok? You don't have to go all secret police on their ass.
Blah blah blah. Fine, but clear your mess. Climate of fear and suspicion? Grow up and don't inconvenience the rest of your neighbors with your problem! Just deal with it. Christ, I can't believe anybody thought to post a thread about this.
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  #43  
Old 11.07.2011, 21:06
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Re: A Swiss thing or just odd behaviour?

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1. Did you read the post to which this comment referred? It was talking about the other posters who were clearly being observed and told on my their neighbors for non-criminal recycling mistakes. It creates a climate of fear and suspicion.

2. And, do you know how much "rule" material there is to cover as a newcomer? Clearly someone who is putting recycling paper inside of a paper bag is not trying to screw with your system. You can just tell them, hey, dude next time no bag, ok? You don't have to go all secret police on their ass.
There are new rules to learn wherever you go (or at least in all the different places I have lived in) so it's not really big news that you have to adjust and make a few changes.

In this case, how do they know it's a newcomer and not someone who just can't be arsed? I guess if they started sorting through your recycling to find out your contact details to make the effort to send you a letter or call on you to say "Hey dude, next time no bag, ok?" that would be deemed unacceptable and intrusive, no? Isn't this kind of a no-win situation for them?
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Old 11.07.2011, 21:07
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Re: A Swiss thing or just odd behaviour?

A lot of string seems to be some kind of plastic too.
Are we supposed to send our ball of string for chemical analysis before we can use it?
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  #45  
Old 11.07.2011, 21:08
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Re: A Swiss thing or just odd behaviour?

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Blah blah blah. Fine, but clear your mess. Climate of fear and suspicion? Grow up and don't inconvenience the rest of your neighbors with your problem! Just deal with it. Christ, I can't believe anybody thought to post a thread about this.
Mikey's in a bad mood. He's usually such a cheerful lad.
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Old 11.07.2011, 21:09
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Re: A Swiss thing or just odd behaviour?

this is why i stopped bothering with recycling and just throw everything in the zuri sacks.
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  #47  
Old 11.07.2011, 21:10
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Re: A Swiss thing or just odd behaviour?

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Mikey's in a bad mood. He's usually such a cheerful lad.
Probably because all this petty crxp that goes on here is getting up his nose.
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  #48  
Old 11.07.2011, 21:11
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Re: A Swiss thing or just odd behaviour?

Well, that is where it gets interesting. If you do it the "proper" way and use string ... then the string itself is in USE. So technically it's not being recycled. So it can't be left out. However, if the string was meant to be recycled then it would need to be put into a pile and tied up with a piece of string. But then THAT piece of string is in use and therefore can't be left with the recycling. So that piece of string also needs to be bundled up, around the first bundle, as a bundle to be recycled which would need to be secured with a piece of string. But then that piece ....

So I use a Marktkauf bag.
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  #49  
Old 11.07.2011, 21:11
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Re: A Swiss thing or just odd behaviour?

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Mikey's in a bad mood. He's usually such a cheerful lad.
Erm, don't you mean Nev? I'm still reeling from a lack of cheese
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  #50  
Old 11.07.2011, 21:12
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Re: A Swiss thing or just odd behaviour?

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Dude, seriously, as satisfying as it may have been for you to do this, what a massive waste of time, effort and energy on your part too...
It was only a couple of minutes out of my way, certanly a great deal quicker than making the newspapers look like new again!
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  #51  
Old 11.07.2011, 21:13
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Re: A Swiss thing or just odd behaviour?

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There are new rules to learn wherever you go (or at least in all the different places I have lived in) so it's not really big news that you have to adjust and make a few changes.

In this case, how do they know it's a newcomer and not someone who just can't be arsed? I guess if they started sorting through your recycling to find out your contact details to make the effort to send you a letter or call on you to say "Hey dude, next time no bag, ok?" that would be deemed unacceptable and intrusive, no? Isn't this kind of a no-win situation for them?
You must have some really interesting definitions of intrusive and unacceptable.
Think about what you are now saying...

It is not ok to call someone out for disposing of stuff in an un-official manner.
It is, apparently, unimportant or acceptable for someone to dump stuff all over the front of someone's apartment when they don't comply with your social mores'.

Really interesting... Very, very,... Hmmm...

The times that I caught people doing stuff that was wrong, I actually just casually mentioned to them that it wasn't done that way and how it might be done better and observed that there might be consequences. It certainly isn't my right or responsibility to act like a petulant child and dump their stuff all over their place of residence.

Yeah, I think that is the crux. I am still not getting that it is OK to have a tantrum in that fashion. Something is definitely wrong when people actually defend that sort of behaviour.
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  #52  
Old 11.07.2011, 21:13
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Re: A Swiss thing or just odd behaviour?

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Blah blah blah. Fine, but clear your mess. Climate of fear and suspicion? Grow up and don't inconvenience the rest of your neighbors with your problem! Just deal with it. Christ, I can't believe anybody thought to post a thread about this.
Dude, I'm not the OP. And I haven't (yet) been turned into the recycling police. So, I'm not sure which mess I should clean up.

My point here was these stories reflect bad policy.

1. Generally speaking, Switzerland suffers from enforcement without education.

2. Encouraging neighbors to snitch on neighbors does not create a friendly or hospitable environment.
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  #53  
Old 11.07.2011, 21:14
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Re: A Swiss thing or just odd behaviour?

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A. Then people wouldn't have this thread to get all pious about.

B. Have you actually tried to figure out all of the seemingly random and arcane crap you have to do in CH in the past decade? When did you move here? A while ago? Cause I can tell you that in many cases it is much harder to figure out where and how, not to mention why, than it is to actually follow the rules once you figure them out. Usually on your own, with no help from the so called self-appointed guardians of the supposedly appropriate etiquette.

C. Why is it so hard for people in this country to just be nice when someone makes their first mistake. I mean, they are spying on you anyway, so it shouldn't be hard to leave a polite note saying that you have made an error, please don't do it again, or you will be reported. It's not like these sort of people have anything else to do or else they wouldn't be doing what they are anyway.

And you are seriously wondering why people moan about stuff? Seems to me, with the way that Swiss society is set up and behaves, that it is reciprocal and mutual.

NB. I lived in the French speaking part so MMMV. I seldomly had people doing crap like that to me and generally liked dealing with the recycling and trash, when the communal collection points weren't stuffed to overflowing and the vermin didn't scatter the stuff to the four winds.
To be perfectly honest it never really bothered me in the slightest - I've got much more important stuff to get my knickers in a twist about to let recycling rules and the rest of the do's and don'ts of Switzerland get me down. It just amuses me how much bandwidth it takes up in other peoples lives.

How can people get so livid about this stuff?
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  #54  
Old 11.07.2011, 21:14
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Re: A Swiss thing or just odd behaviour?

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A lot of string seems to be some kind of plastic too.
Are we supposed to send our ball of string for chemical analysis before we can use it?
Is it clear plastic string or coloured?
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Old 11.07.2011, 21:18
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Re: A Swiss thing or just odd behaviour?

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To be perfectly honest it never really bothered me in the slightest - I've got much more important stuff to get my knickers in a twist about to let recycling rules and the rest of the do's and don'ts of Switzerland get me down. It just amuses me how much bandwidth it takes up in other peoples lives.

How can people get so livid about this stuff?
I can tell you simply that it is the dumping part that is what makes people livid.
The fact that the OP used the wrong bag is immaterial.
The irony is that the person who dumped the material, not only was an ass, but they broke at least 2, possibly more, laws in the process. Still don't get why this behaviour is acceptable.
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  #56  
Old 11.07.2011, 21:18
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Re: A Swiss thing or just odd behaviour?

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You must have some really interesting definitions of intrusive and unacceptable.
Think about what you are now saying...

It is not ok to call someone out for disposing of stuff in an un-official manner.
It is, apparently, unimportant or acceptable for someone to dump stuff all over the front of someone's apartment when they don't comply with your social mores'.

Really interesting... Very, very,... Hmmm...

The times that I caught people doing stuff that was wrong, I actually just casually mentioned to them that it wasn't done that way and how it might be done better and observed that there might be consequences. It certainly isn't my right or responsibility to act like a petulant child and dump their stuff all over their place of residence.

Yeah, I think that is the crux. I am still not getting that it is OK to have a tantrum in that fashion. Something is definitely wrong when people actually defend that sort of behaviour.
I don't think at any point (no, just double-checked through my posts) did I mention anything about neighbours being okay to dump recycling or anything related to it.

I pointed out the rule as I understood it from the cantonal website, gave an example of when I had seen the bags being left behind. Given that, I bundle my recycling according to the rule and get on with my life.

Now, what was all that noise about Swiss neighbours?
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Old 11.07.2011, 21:21
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Re: A Swiss thing or just odd behaviour?

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Is it clear plastic string or coloured?
I wasn't allowed my one word reply.
I was told it was too short and I had to lengthen it.
Don't tempt me
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Old 11.07.2011, 21:24
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Re: A Swiss thing or just odd behaviour?

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I don't think at any point (no, just double-checked through my posts) did I mention anything about neighbours being okay to dump recycling or anything related to it.

I pointed out the rule as I understood it from the cantonal website, gave an example of when I had seen the bags being left behind. Given that, I bundle my recycling according to the rule and get on with my life.

Now, what was all that noise about Swiss neighbours?
With your repeated admonishments that implied that newbie moaners were at fault, you left the distinct impression that the behaviour was unimportant and that the fault solely rested on the the errant recycler.

Don't understand the comment about Swiss neighbors, but then again, I am not Swiss.
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Old 11.07.2011, 21:25
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Re: A Swiss thing or just odd behaviour?

Make sure you iron the old Züritipps and Tages Anzeigers before bundling. 20Minuten and pizza flyers don't need ironing. The knot needs to be a truckers hitch or bowline / two half hitches. Overhand knots will result in Sandgrounders knickers getting in a twist.

Clearly, Apèro time went happy hour.
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Old 11.07.2011, 21:28
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Re: A Swiss thing or just odd behaviour?

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I can tell you simply that it is the dumping part that is what makes people livid.
And in my case, the thought that an errant recycler might, whatever the reason, consider leaving their uncollected trash lying around. What branch of science is that attitude based on?
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