Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Daily life  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #181  
Old 27.07.2011, 19:20
hoppy
 
Posts: n/a
Re: How is the crime rate in the Switzerland compare to England?

[QUOTE=amogles;1279146]
Quote:
Because if there is a cultural issue involved surely it is the job of the defence to explain that, and make an argument as to why it should have a bearing on the case.
If you can get/afford a good enough defense lawyer. I did it was provided without me even requesting it, so the system certainly does work sometimes.


Quote:
But we have presented cases of false accusation and imprisonment. It does happen.
Yes that happens her in the US too and it is terrible when it happens, but it the weight of abuse case never brought to court is believed to be far greater.



Quote:
If a family member abuses a child, yes, they can theoretically get expelled. But also in such cases, if the parents were the abuers, the child would be put into foster care and hence not expelled with its parents.
Thanks for clarifying that, hopefully there is effort for such children to be made aware of their rights.



Quote:
and if you study Switzerland, you will see that Switzerland is also a multi-ethinic and multi-cultural country and has been so far far longer than the US. The Swiss consitution and laws for example are in four languages and have been for a long time. Is there an official translation of the US constitution into any language other than English? Has any congressman or senator ever spoken to the house in a langauge other than English? Has there ever been a president whose first language wasn't English. In fact how many US presidents fluently spoke any language other than English? Not very many I'd wager. So which country has the longer history of multi-culturalism?
I was expecting you to come back with that and it is true, but it doesn't mean that they should rest on their laurels, multiculturalism must now reflect the growing diversity. I am hoping that the US will become bilingual Spanish/English, many communities already are. But instating official languages is not the most important factor in multiculturalism ( although- it is a very important one!) the most important factor is attitude. Attitudes change when societies need to change- often for economic reasons. Switzerland, economically, relies on imported labour and expertise.
I already know many experts here who will not go to Switzerland if they have a similar offer elsewhere because of problems with integration, even if they get the work visa. Others may go for the money or 'work abroad' resume bumper, but I don't think that is good for Swiss society. If you become Swiss though and participate fully in the society, and the Swiss society values your input, then it could be a wonderful life.
Reply With Quote
  #182  
Old 28.07.2011, 10:58
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,361
Groaned at 340 Times in 276 Posts
Thanked 26,264 Times in 11,001 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: How is the crime rate in the Switzerland compare to England?

Quote:
View Post
I was expecting you to come back with that and it is true, but it doesn't mean that they should rest on their laurels, multiculturalism must now reflect the growing diversity. I am hoping that the US will become bilingual Spanish/English, many communities already are. But instating official languages is not the most important factor in multiculturalism ( although- it is a very important one!) the most important factor is attitude. Attitudes change when societies need to change- often for economic reasons. Switzerland, economically, relies on imported labour and expertise.
So does the USA.The USA does not just requite Mexicans to work on the farms and construction sites but also imports many skilled workers and experts including engineers and doctors. In fact the company I work for has a branch in the USA and I know from them that if you want a good engineer it's very difficult to find one in the USA as the universities aren't training enough engineers and most vacancies are being filled by foreigners, especially Chinese and Indians. Maybe its also a question of the salaries they are paying.

Maybe the focus of the teabaggers has moved away from immigration in recent months and is more against other things now, but still as an immigrant, and especially a latin-american immigrant life in the USA isn't all roses so I don't see the attitude in the USA being more open to immigrants than it is here. On the contrary, I think that even if you talk to the most hardline SVP folks and ask them about immigrants they know personally, they will say, yes, those are OK, but they are different. That's a first step. then they meet some more they'll notice those are different too. Ask a teabagger and they probably don't now any Mexicans personally but just know about them from watching Fox News. The Urban structure of Switzerland where the majority live in rented appartments is in itself a factor that accelerates integration and mixing. The Mac-mansion and gated community versus ghetto structure of the USA does the opposite.

Quote:
View Post
I already know many experts here who will not go to Switzerland if they have a similar offer elsewhere because of problems with integration, even if they get the work visa. Others may go for the money or 'work abroad' resume bumper, but I don't think that is good for Swiss society. If you become Swiss though and participate fully in the society, and the Swiss society values your input, then it could be a wonderful life.
I am seeing rather the opposite. The company I work for is very international and one of the selling points in having offices in Zürich is the international and cosmopolitan atmosphere (whatever that means)
Reply With Quote
  #183  
Old 28.07.2011, 11:13
lost_inbroad's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Town or region
Posts: 11,491
Groaned at 655 Times in 417 Posts
Thanked 16,388 Times in 6,379 Posts
lost_inbroad has a reputation beyond reputelost_inbroad has a reputation beyond reputelost_inbroad has a reputation beyond reputelost_inbroad has a reputation beyond reputelost_inbroad has a reputation beyond reputelost_inbroad has a reputation beyond repute
Re: How is the crime rate in the Switzerland compare to England?

Quote:
View Post
So does the USA.The USA does not just requite Mexicans to work on the farms and construction sites but also imports many skilled workers and experts including engineers and doctors. In fact the company I work for has a branch in the USA and I know from them that if you want a good engineer it's very difficult to find one in the USA as the universities aren't training enough engineers and most vacancies are being filled by foreigners, especially Chinese and Indians. Maybe its also a question of the salaries they are paying.

Maybe the focus of the teabaggers has moved away from immigration in recent months and is more against other things now, but still as an immigrant, and especially a latin-american immigrant life in the USA isn't all roses so I don't see the attitude in the USA being more open to immigrants than it is here. On the contrary, I think that even if you talk to the most hardline SVP folks and ask them about immigrants they know personally, they will say, yes, those are OK, but they are different. That's a first step. then they meet some more they'll notice those are different too. Ask a teabagger and they probably don't now any Mexicans personally but just know about them from watching Fox News. The Urban structure of Switzerland where the majority live in rented appartments is in itself a factor that accelerates integration and mixing. The Mac-mansion and gated community versus ghetto structure of the USA does the opposite.



I am seeing rather the opposite. The company I work for is very international and one of the selling points in having offices in Zürich is the international and cosmopolitan atmosphere (whatever that means)
You couldn't be further from the truth. The Swiss integration process is one big failure. Where do you see people with foreign roots holding a position in public administration or let alone work as police officers in Switzerland?!
Also your comment about renting a place, which causes people to better integrate is utter nonsense. As for instance, there is no sense of community in Switzerland let alone things such as a block fest or a neighborhood cookout. This place is probably the most segregated country in the world. You might as well compare it to the Indian caste system.
Reply With Quote
  #184  
Old 28.07.2011, 11:17
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 32,226
Groaned at 2,458 Times in 1,778 Posts
Thanked 39,330 Times in 18,537 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: How is the crime rate in the Switzerland compare to England?

Quote:
View Post
there is no sense of community in Switzerland let alone things such as a block fest or a neighborhood cookout
Well, I never noticed that living in the US or France, either. Must be new.

Tom
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post:
  #185  
Old 28.07.2011, 11:27
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: How is the crime rate in the Switzerland compare to England?

Quote:
View Post
Also your comment about renting a place, which causes people to better integrate is utter nonsense. As for instance, there is no sense of community in Switzerland let alone things such as a block fest or a neighborhood cookout. This place is probably the most segregated country in the world. You might as well compare it to the Indian caste system.
You just need to know where to look - our local gemeindehaus has a noticeboard with all sorts of community events going on.

When people register at our Kreisbüro they get a pointer towards it along with all the other bumf.

We always go to the weekly barbecue, which has loads of people and kids from out local area, as well as the international set. After a few bottles of wine have been sunk, you can guarantee the integration is well under way.

There's also mum and baby groups, clothing bourse, babysitting services, etc.

We don't even live out in the countryside - this is in the city.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #186  
Old 28.07.2011, 11:31
lost_inbroad's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Town or region
Posts: 11,491
Groaned at 655 Times in 417 Posts
Thanked 16,388 Times in 6,379 Posts
lost_inbroad has a reputation beyond reputelost_inbroad has a reputation beyond reputelost_inbroad has a reputation beyond reputelost_inbroad has a reputation beyond reputelost_inbroad has a reputation beyond reputelost_inbroad has a reputation beyond repute
Re: How is the crime rate in the Switzerland compare to England?

Quote:
You just need to know where to look - our local gemeindehaus has a noticeboard with all sorts of community events going on.

When people register at our Kreisbüro they get a pointer towards it along with all the other bumf.

We always go to the weekly barbecue, which has loads of people and kids from out local area, as well as the international set. After a few bottles of wine have been sunk, you can guarantee the integration is well under way.

There's also mum and baby groups, clothing bourse, babysitting services, etc.

We don't even live out in the countryside - this is in the city.
..and now we're back to the Swiss issue.
a) you have to know where to lookc
b) in Zurich

The thing is, in the US...I didn't have to look for anything..events, community gettogether came looking for me. Be it church basketball on Sunday or a random bbq. I didn't have to get info at some Gemeinde. Also, let's not forget, most people don't live in Zurich and therefore, don't have the "variety" of options that you have there.
Reply With Quote
  #187  
Old 28.07.2011, 11:37
tom tulpe's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Horgen
Posts: 1,182
Groaned at 21 Times in 19 Posts
Thanked 1,409 Times in 646 Posts
tom tulpe has a reputation beyond reputetom tulpe has a reputation beyond reputetom tulpe has a reputation beyond reputetom tulpe has a reputation beyond reputetom tulpe has a reputation beyond repute
Re: How is the crime rate in the Switzerland compare to England?

Quote:
View Post
Where do you see people with foreign roots holding a position in public administration or let alone work as police officers in Switzerland?!
Most Swiss cantons have abolished the requirement for applicants to the police force to be Swiss citizens (interestingly Zurich is one of the cantons that still require it). This article (halfway down the page) is about the situation in Basel-Stadt.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank tom tulpe for this useful post:
  #188  
Old 28.07.2011, 11:40
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: How is the crime rate in the Switzerland compare to England?

There are loads of community events in our little town in Glarnerland.

I haven't a clue how many of the local Italians or Serbs or involved in them, though. I suspect they dislike Schlager music as much as I do...
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #189  
Old 28.07.2011, 11:42
lost_inbroad's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Town or region
Posts: 11,491
Groaned at 655 Times in 417 Posts
Thanked 16,388 Times in 6,379 Posts
lost_inbroad has a reputation beyond reputelost_inbroad has a reputation beyond reputelost_inbroad has a reputation beyond reputelost_inbroad has a reputation beyond reputelost_inbroad has a reputation beyond reputelost_inbroad has a reputation beyond repute
Re: How is the crime rate in the Switzerland compare to England?

Quote:
I suspect they dislike Schlager music as much as I do...
I really wonder why?
Reply With Quote
  #190  
Old 28.07.2011, 12:19
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,361
Groaned at 340 Times in 276 Posts
Thanked 26,264 Times in 11,001 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: How is the crime rate in the Switzerland compare to England?

Quote:
I haven't a clue how many of the local Italians or Serbs or involved in them, though. I suspect they dislike Schlager music as much as I do...
The Italians maybe.

The Austro-Hungarian influence on the Balkans has left them with a musical legacy that's not entirely un-Germanic and local radio stations in Slovenia and Sebia sometimes play music that's not entirely unlike Ländler. Although Schlager of course is a bit further off.

They also know how to dance the Waltz second only to the Austrians.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #191  
Old 28.07.2011, 13:41
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: How is the crime rate in the Switzerland compare to England?

Quote:
View Post
..and now we're back to the Swiss issue.
a) you have to know where to lookc
b) in Zurich

The thing is, in the US...I didn't have to look for anything..events, community gettogether came looking for me. Be it church basketball on Sunday or a random bbq. I didn't have to get info at some Gemeinde. Also, let's not forget, most people don't live in Zurich and therefore, don't have the "variety" of options that you have there.
My point is that you don't have to go looking for it. Upon registration at the Kreisbüro when you are fresh off the boat, they hand you the information. I think they draw the line at holding your hand and wiping your nose at the event(s) but, nonetheless, the information is there.

You mentioned integration; this is quite a big push from the local authorities, no?

The other point about it being Zurich is that Zurich is reputed to be this big faceless anonymous city perhaps without the community spirit you are likely to find out in the sticks but the facility is still there.

On the other hand, perhaps people are so burned from being accused of sticking their nose into their (foreign) neighbours' business they don't bother asking them along to a random barbecue or community meet up for fear of being told they are an interfering busy-body and their "generosity" is plastered all over an english forum for everyone to take a punch at the nosey Swiss.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #192  
Old 28.07.2011, 16:17
hoppy
 
Posts: n/a
Re: How is the crime rate in the Switzerland compare to England?

[QUOTE=amogles;1279606]So
Quote:
does the USA.The USA does not just requite Mexicans to work on the farms and construction sites but also imports many skilled workers and experts including engineers and doctors. In fact the company I work for has a branch in the USA and I know from them that if you want a good engineer it's very difficult to find one in the USA as the universities aren't training enough engineers and most vacancies are being filled by foreigners, especially Chinese and Indians. Maybe its also a question of the salaries they are paying.
It depends on what you call engineers. Iin Switzerland my husband's title is Forschungsenginieur, he was told( at work) to make sure that everyone addressed him as Dr. so that they knew he was not an immigrant technician.

here in the US he just calls himself an engineer, most people know who he is and all the people that he works with have PhDs and lecture so it would be a bit stupid if they all stuck to address me as Dr/Prof thing.


However if you are talking about technicians- generally Yes technicians (at least in the field that he works) are better trained in CH. He often wishes that he could have brought some of his Swiss technicians with him, he just has to instruct theones that he has more closely.

Yes, there are many South Americans Labourers working in the US, except many are going home, because of unemployment and low pay. Actually where I am they seem to have been replaced by people from the Caribbean. Also locally we are very grateful to a big influx of Guyanese, who are very entrepreneurial, through little money and hard work they move into dilapidated areas and regenerate them. In just a few years they have their own councilman, websites, societies etc. At our swearing-in ceremony as US citizens there were many Guyanese, it is a rapidly growing community, they got a special mention and thanks for helping to turn the city around.


No, the US does not import scientists or technicians, my husband (yes I think he is god) was headhunted but he was an exception. Now he is involved in hiring, they just pick from MIT. Brown U Penn etc. However there are a lot of Chinese and Indian, that have come to the US to study after their Degrees or Masters. Very often the cream of those societies who know they can make here decide to stay. In the Universities they work their butts off for professors to get through.

Quote:
Maybe the focus of the teabaggers has moved away from immigration in recent months and is more against other things now, but still as an immigrant, and especially a latin-american immigrant life in the USA isn't all roses so I don't see the attitude in the USA being more open to immigrants than it is here. On the contrary, I think that even if you talk to the most hardline SVP folks and ask them about immigrants they know personally, they will say, yes, those are OK, but they are different. That's a first step. then they meet some more they'll notice those are different too. Ask a teabagger and they probably don't now any Mexicans personally but just know about them from watching Fox News. The Urban structure of Switzerland where the majority live in rented appartments is in itself a factor that accelerates integration and mixing. The Mac-mansion and gated community versus ghetto structure of the USA does the opposite.
I have teabagger friends (I know it's terrible but I think I am changing them) mostly from martial arts but we laugh and joke and get along- we are currently arguing on facebook. The ones I know have many friends from different nationalities, they employ them and socialize with them, they role on the floor together in jujitsu exercises, mingle sweat and slap each other on the back. As long as they are not terrorists and love the US of A that's fine. Teasmokers are just very pro- American, if the foreigners are here to work hard and contribute to society then they want them, just like our ex-Republican mayor who went down to NYC to give incentives to newly arrived Guyanese to move upstate. However if they are trying to jump over the border and commit crimes- then you shoot them. At least that's what they say and all my teabagger friends have guns some in the police and forces, but it's always bravado talk-at least among the ones I know.

The teabaggers do watch Fox news and fall for the propaganda paid for by the Koch brothers, they do want a tighter immigration policy- they feel threatened- that their rights are being taken away and keep spouting the second amendment- don't you take my gun! However they also make jokes about themselves being dumb rednecks their trucks etc. Most of my friends are now slightly embarrassed about the teasmokers, because they don't want their rights taken away, they realize that cuts include medicaire, medicaid, soc. sec. etc. which wasn't part of their deal. Some are racists and dangerous, but then there are liberal racists too.


Quote:
I am seeing rather the opposite. The company I work for is very international and one of the selling points in having offices in Zürich is the international and cosmopolitan atmosphere (whatever that means)
That's great! We weren't in the same situation, it was supposed to be an international company but most of the bosses were Swiss- mostly German- Swiss, whose business language was supposed to be English but was in fact German-Swiss. The gap between the Swiss and non- Swiss was evident especially at Aperos, Kaffee and Gipfeli.
Where we live in the US, we are very lucky people are really nice and respect other based on individual personality not race. In fact they are probably less racist than me. I have grown up in racist environments and some habits are ingrained- like the odd joke- a Chinese man, an Indian and a Turk walk into a bar. I don't tell them but might laugh. Here such jokes lose their meaning because those stereotypes no longer exist and people don't get it. Such jokes were commonly made by management and teachers when I was in Switzerland- but that was 11 years ago. In my visits since it doesn't seem to have changed much to me.

Here something for you to enjoy one local festival the dancing and food are incredible- see the racial mix????
Reply With Quote
  #193  
Old 28.07.2011, 16:22
hoppy
 
Posts: n/a
Re: How is the crime rate in the Switzerland compare to England?

Reply With Quote
  #194  
Old 28.07.2011, 16:27
hoppy
 
Posts: n/a
Re: How is the crime rate in the Switzerland compare to England?

Tulipfest- again very racially mixed having fun- although the capoiera is pretty bad!

Reply With Quote
  #195  
Old 28.07.2011, 16:31
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: How is the crime rate in the Switzerland compare to England?

And here's a particularly nasty Swiss crime, especially for Dougal "Schlager" Breakfast...


Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #196  
Old 28.07.2011, 16:33
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: How is the crime rate in the Switzerland compare to England?

Why has this thread been dragged down to You-Tube examples of race relations in the US rather than the comparison of crime rates between Switzerland and England?
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #197  
Old 28.07.2011, 16:45
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Oftringen
Posts: 9
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
jacqui91 has no particular reputation at present
Re: How is the crime rate in the Switzerland compare to England?

You can't compare CH & UK or UK with USA they are totaly different UK has a much larger popultion than CH. CH does have crime and a big drug problems. The Swiss just don't bla bla it out so much as the media do in the UK. The swiss just hush it up better. So if you don't think CH has crime you are living in a bubble!! Crap happens everywhere. Human rights and do gooders have too much to say in UK. I have lived in CH for over 10 years and again on and off I have seen more things going on here and more drug problems than when I am back visiting or living in Blackpool my home town in the UK! CH is slowly getting worse.
I have been pick pocketed in Zuerich, flashed at in Luzern twice and once in Grindelwald and my car broken into in Interlaken. I haven't had anything happen in Blackpool. 3 clients of mine have had their purses and a wallet stollen on the trains in CH in Bern area. We have had Swiss staff steal money from us I suppose to buy drugs and goods stollen. So wake up. There also has been shootings not that I have witnesst them but they are there.
Reply With Quote
  #198  
Old 28.07.2011, 16:54
Ouchboy's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Baden
Posts: 3,324
Groaned at 58 Times in 47 Posts
Thanked 5,642 Times in 2,146 Posts
Ouchboy has a reputation beyond reputeOuchboy has a reputation beyond reputeOuchboy has a reputation beyond reputeOuchboy has a reputation beyond reputeOuchboy has a reputation beyond reputeOuchboy has a reputation beyond repute
Re: How is the crime rate in the Switzerland compare to England?

hi jacqui...

welcome to the forum, please introduce yourself on "Introductions"
Or be branded an EF criminal... your choice
Reply With Quote
  #199  
Old 28.07.2011, 17:08
Chemmie's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 4,144
Groaned at 33 Times in 29 Posts
Thanked 4,951 Times in 2,233 Posts
Chemmie has a reputation beyond reputeChemmie has a reputation beyond reputeChemmie has a reputation beyond reputeChemmie has a reputation beyond reputeChemmie has a reputation beyond reputeChemmie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: How is the crime rate in the Switzerland compare to England?

Quote:
View Post
....CH does have crime and a big drug problems......

are you referring to the business dealing and actions of Novartis and Roche?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Chemmie for this useful post:
  #200  
Old 28.07.2011, 17:13
hoppy
 
Posts: n/a
Re: How is the crime rate in the Switzerland compare to England?

Quote:
View Post
And here's a particularly nasty Swiss crime, especially for Dougal "Schlager" Breakfast...


Whenever I heard that song in Switzerland, I knew how the Martians felt when they heard the Slim Whitman Indian love call in Mars Attacks

Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How does Switzerland compare...according to the OECD Danieluk Daily life 0 20.07.2011 17:40
Swiss crime rate is dropping - especially violent crimes. Treverus Daily life 24 24.03.2011 15:48
Where's the best Zurich to watch the Switzerland v England match tomorrow night? jemalis Entertainment & dining 11 07.09.2010 22:03
how do you compare year 1 in the British system & 1st class of primary in Switzerland olympe Family matters/health 11 11.04.2010 12:16
Exchange rate CHF - EUR: where is the best rate in Basel? jttraveller Finance/banking/taxation 3 02.07.2008 12:47


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 09:23.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0