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  #81  
Old 25.07.2011, 14:49
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Re: How is the crime rate in the Switzerland compare to England?

I have said repeatedly that it happens in other countries. Why am I pronounced a racist when I state something that I, a Swiss, see with my own eyes?
The station on the outskirts of Winterthur (Oberwinterthur) it was a common place for drug addicts to get their fix, thus the syringes. I suppose it was used because the fast trains stop there, yet it is away from the town center. There are allotments and a school directly alongside, so lots of space to fix undisturbed at night. they probably have security cameras there now. If you don't believe me then basically you are calling me a liar- why should I lie about it?
Of course crime happens in the US, where have I negated that? In fact they start filming 'The Place beyond the Pines' 5 miles away today, many of the people that I know will be in it- shot at my bank!
I used to volunteer in a high crime area-one teenager who got shot right outside where I volunteered was wearing a bullet proof vest! I am just saying that you can't deny that there is crime in Switzerland. Where there are drugs and syringes there is crime.

Last edited by hoppy; 25.07.2011 at 14:59.
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  #82  
Old 25.07.2011, 15:04
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Re: How is the crime rate in the Switzerland compare to England?

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I am not saying that crime doesn't happen in other countries- of course it does, but we don't try to pretend that it doesn't happen.
When you say "we"?
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Many on the forum want others to believe that Switzerland is a haven of little to no crime, that's not true.
It is a haven of little to no crime. Have you read any of the statistics? Have you checked out the violent crime rates in the rest of Europe? And I don't really want to mention it, but have you ever been to Lagos or Johannesburg, or read about crime in those places?
What do you count as safe?
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Also, other countries are not so quick to blame it all on the foreigners;
I am not too sure about that. All the time in the UK and US we hear about how the police focus on foreign elements or foreign looking elements in the society. Do you really think that the Swiss are especially bigoted against people from outside the country? Clearly you have not visited Malaysia, where you will get told sometimes that you cannot talk to a girl because you are a "white man". Perhaps you have experienced racism in Lagos where hate is thrown at you in an airport because of the colour of your skin. Maybe even you have been tarred as a racist because you grew up in a country where some other people were? I don't see the Swiss conducting themselves any worse than any other nation, and better than most, or are you suggesting the situation in Zurich or Basel is worse than it was in Rwanda and Burundi?
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drug crime was there evident in Switzerland before the Albanian, Yugoslavian, Turks or eastern Europeans arrived in large numbers- so you can't blame it all on them.
So, when did they start arriving in large numbers? Do you have proof of the statistics that you are using to support your argument on this one. I would be very interested in seeing them.
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It is not just the taking of drugs that is a crime, the whole drug business is crime related- buying, selling, production, transportation, robbery, burglary.......and in other countries prostitution- which is legal in Switzerland. Also, it isn't just a few kids shooting up.
What is it then? Every foreigner in Switzerland shooting up? All the locals secretly addicted to heroin? Most seem to function pretty well to me and I don't really see a major drug problem in the country, and neither do the statistics show that Switzerland is much worse off than any other place in Europe when it comes to overdoses.
Also, please remember that heroin usage is drastically down in Switzerland and in many places. The cool crowd that want to off themselves now quite often use prescription drugs, which account for the majority of cases of death through overdose in Europe.
Remember that the war on drugs kills more people every six months in Mexico than people die from overdoses in the whole of Europe in a year. More people are in the Mexican drug trade in two weeks than people die from taking those drugs in a whole year in Switzerland. The problem is not the drugs but uninformed people who would rather not educate people about addiction problems but rather shoot people instead!
People don't really rob places for beer or cigarettes, or at least not that often.
All of the crime that you see about drugs is caused by people who believe that the drugs are evil, not the criminals that deal them because there is an niche available in our society. Simple supply and demand. I hope they still teach that. Legalise the supply and educate people and you deal with the crime problem to a significant level.

Personally I would sleep a lot better at night knowing that 100 Mexican kids did not die last week to keep down the amount of weed available for kids and coke available for bankers....I don't know about you though! Drugs kill innocent lives because people who don't know about drugs let them!
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  #83  
Old 25.07.2011, 15:11
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Re: How is the crime rate in the Switzerland compare to England?

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I used to volunteer in a high crime area-one teenager who got shot right outside where I volunteered was wearing a bullet proof vest! I am just saying that you can't deny that there is crime in Switzerland. Where there are drugs and syringes there is crime.
Nobody is denying that there is crime in Switzerland. There is crime everywhere! What most people say, Swiss and other is that the crime rate in Switzerland is MUCH lower than most and practically lower than almost all other countries in the world! The statistics agree, the EFers agree, most Swiss people that I speak to agree. It only seems to be you that thinks that Switzerland is a grotto of murder, theft, rape and oh horror of horrors, drug use.

Look, honestly, I know that the Swiss want to come up with good ways to keep us foreign people from wanting to settle in the country, but you are going to have to come up with a better tactic than this. Perhaps you can tell us about how good the beer is here?
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Old 25.07.2011, 15:30
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Re: How is the crime rate in the Switzerland compare to England?

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Perhaps you can tell us about how good the beer is here?
Personally, I like Swiss beer, better than most except Belgian, British, or Irish!

Tom
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  #85  
Old 25.07.2011, 15:39
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Re: How is the crime rate in the Switzerland compare to England?

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I have said repeatedly that it happens in other countries. Why am I pronounced a racist when I state something that I, a Swiss, see with my own eyes?
The station on the outskirts of Winterthur (Oberwinterthur) it was a common place for drug addicts to get their fix, thus the syringes. I suppose it was used because the fast trains stop there, yet it is away from the town center. There are allotments and a school directly alongside, so lots of space to fix undisturbed at night. they probably have security cameras there now. If you don't believe me then basically you are calling me a liar- why should I lie about it?
I wasn't calling you a liar for saying there are syringes. But you actually said that after a shotoout schoolchildren had been sent out to pick up the syringes as part of an exercise to sweep evidence under the carpet so the press wouldn't find out and I asked how the syringes could be considered evidence of a shootout. You still haven't explained that to me. In fact by saying they are always there it becomes less, not more obvious why they should be evidence connecetd to a shootout. Your stories sound increasingly pie in the sky to me and I'd like to know why you are introducing them to a serious discussion about crime.
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Old 25.07.2011, 15:40
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Re: How is the crime rate in the Switzerland compare to England?

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Clearly, Plus, you are trolling - because the USA is a paragon of virtue and there is no crime there. Oh, no. None. Indeed, it is much better than the UK.

I am not particularly defending the UK, I just think that your comparative example shows your complete and utter ignorance on the topic. Are you 12?

.
I don’t want to be offensive. Sorry that I made you feel bad. I have many years experience living in Europe and US and I believe I have the right to compare.

May be other people’s opinions will broaden your view on this meter. A lot of other people agree with my view.

Here is the link: http://www.city-data.com/forum/unite...dom-crime.html
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Old 25.07.2011, 15:44
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Re: How is the crime rate in the Switzerland compare to England?

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The difference is that there isn't the open warfare here on the streets that you find in the US.?
........ only drive-by postings here - much safer ........ gotta dash .......
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Old 25.07.2011, 15:44
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Re: How is the crime rate in the Switzerland compare to England?

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I don’t want to be offensive. Sorry that I made you feel bad. I have many years experience living in Europe and US and I believe I have the right to compare.

May be other people’s opinions will broaden your view on this meter. A lot of other people agree with my view.

Here is the link: http://www.city-data.com/forum/unite...dom-crime.html
A lot of people dont agree with your view also.
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Old 25.07.2011, 15:49
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Re: How is the crime rate in the Switzerland compare to England?

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Britain is not just London! London is a hole. There are 3 other countries included in the UK, that's COUNTRIES not just a dirty over filled city. The UK has beautiful parts that are very safe and not so far from London. And the further north you go the friendlier the people are too! Just thought I'd stick a tuppence in.

Sssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhh - don't say things like that, Faybay!!!! We don't want all the riff-raff flocking here!!!


No, it's hell Oop North and no mistake. The levels of violence and crime against the person are unbelievable. F'rinstance, I got mugged at the weekend, and am still traumatised by the event, when a bloody great herring gull landed on the boat and pinched my chicken drumstick
I had been looking forward to that chicken leg, I can tell you. I was inconsolable - all the more so when I realised that I would have to make do with lobster and smoked salmon. Again.


What's worse, we were later mobbed by porpoise swimming alongside us and sometimes jumping clean out the water, but the crafty wee cetaceous crooks didn't fool us for an instant; we knew they were just casing the joint.


By and large, I think it would be best if all and sundry move to Switzerland on a permanent basis - I mean, who could possibly fail to find the cold and rain of a summer's day in Züri anything other than refreshing?
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Old 25.07.2011, 15:54
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Re: How is the crime rate in the Switzerland compare to England?

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Nobody is denying that there is crime in Switzerland. There is crime everywhere! What most people say, Swiss and other is that the crime rate in Switzerland is MUCH lower than most and practically lower than almost all other countries in the world! The statistics agree, the EFers agree, most Swiss people that I speak to agree. It only seems to be you that thinks that Switzerland is a grotto of murder, theft, rape and oh horror of horrors, drug use.

Look, honestly, I know that the Swiss want to come up with good ways to keep us foreign people from wanting to settle in the country, but you are going to have to come up with a better tactic than this. Perhaps you can tell us about how good the beer is here?

many of you are so touchy about Switzerland- for the umpteenth time of course crime happens everywhere and of course I don't think that Switzerland is a grotto of murder, theft, rape and oh horror of horrors, drug use, what I am saying is that it isn't a crime-free haven either. If you expect that you are in for a shock, like my daughter was shocked when she returned 4 years ago as a teenager and found one of her ex-primarschule classmates snorting a white substance at the local provincial swimming pool.

If you want incentive to stay in Switzerland- go hiking in the mountains and breathe in the air, eat Greyezer and chocolate and get used to expecting things to work well and work on time. One of my children has moved back and the other may well do the same and we will move back eventually, even if only briefly. My kids are very pro-Swiss, so I expect to have Swiss grandchildren. I do prefer the US.

My connoisseures tell me that the beer and the wine is not that good. Kartause Ittingen beer -isn't bad and if you drink it there the surroundings are idyllic.
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Old 25.07.2011, 15:55
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Re: How is the crime rate in the Switzerland compare to England?

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You've not proved anyone wrong or right. It's your own hearsay story with no back up, no proof, just your own words at something that happened years ago. I think the person who is actually sore is you because people don't buy it. You can keep banging on about it but it doesn't make it any more convincing.

Cool, so you have a wealth of experience of drug users and their sites in Switzerland, that's fine. Doesn't mean everyone is going to suddenly see it from your point of view.

Yes, there is crime in Switzerland but from the past 11 years I have been here, it has never affected me and I have lived in the middle of one of the largest cities here, been out at night and never really avoided any areas at any times.

I've seen drug users but, to be honest, that's their thing and they keep themselves to themselves.

So, yes, I am comparing the UK to Switzerland as a safe haven, which it is unless you go out of your way looking for trouble.
One thing that I noted the last time I visited, is that in CH open hard drug consumption in notorious places like the park near the Landesmuseum and the Letten all now have been cleaned up. I remember back in the 90's those places were notorious places of drug consumption. Thats good thing because where there are hard drugs there is also other crime.
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Old 25.07.2011, 15:59
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Re: How is the crime rate in the Switzerland compare to England?

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A lot of people dont agree with your view also.
Where is your proof?

Do we mean the same?

I am talking about antisocial behavior. For example if in US, under my windows, at night time, some drunk idiot is screaming, there will be one, two sometimes three car with police officers. The drunk idiot will go to jail or at least they will remove him or her that other people can sleep.

Here in UK I wake up every night several times because of some drunk idiots under my windows. And believe me, I don’t live in bad area.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...tatistics.html


I do not mean that there is less or more crime in US, I mean that the police in US actually do work; in UK I feel that this is no such organization as police.
My question, is Switzerland the same?
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Old 25.07.2011, 16:01
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Re: How is the crime rate in the Switzerland compare to England?

The real beer map- for ColinWheeler and St2lemans and any other interested parties!

http://www.bov.ch/beer/swissbeers.htm
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Old 25.07.2011, 16:03
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Re: How is the crime rate in the Switzerland compare to England?

List of countries by intentional homicide rate.

This is per 100k population per year. Remember that some countries are not honest when they report or definitions differ. For example, South Africa has been caught a number of times fudging their numbers to try and keep some international investment flowing.

Topping out the list:
El Salvador @ 71
Honduras @ 67
Jamaica @ 60
...
...
South Africa @ 34
...
...
Russia @ 15
...
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USA @ 5
...
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UK @ 1.28
Poland @ 1.21
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Switzerland @ 0.71 (11th from the bottom of the list in which there are yearly murders in a country with a significant population.
...
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Austria @ 0.48
...
...
Iceland, Monaco and Palau @ 0


I know, I know, it is just murder but one has to start somewhere. I know that violent crime may be higher in the UK and getting close to US levels in some areas and ways. But there are the statistics for those who are interested.

South Africa, 50 times more likely to get killed by somebody than in Switzerland!!!
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Old 25.07.2011, 16:10
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Re: How is the crime rate in the Switzerland compare to England?

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what I am saying is that it isn't a crime-free haven either
Hoppy, hear me out.
No where is crime free.
Switzerland is almost as close as it comes. I mean I can't really see the Swiss government fudging their statistics because they want to keep the flow of ex-pats coming?
The crime rates here are "ridiculously low" in comparison to almost anywhere else in the world.
Yes, it is a very very very very very very very low crime rate haven!!! I am not saying there is NO crime, just that this is the best place to hardly ever have to see it!
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Old 25.07.2011, 16:13
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Re: How is the crime rate in the Switzerland compare to England?

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The real beer map- for ColinWheeler and St2lemans and any other interested parties!
Much appreciated but the beer was just an example. I never really drink the stuff myself so I really would not know what a good beer tasted like if it jumped me, stuck a needle in my neck and forced me to do heroin.
Sorry, I could not resist.
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Old 25.07.2011, 16:16
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Re: How is the crime rate in the Switzerland compare to England?

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I don’t want to be offensive. Sorry that I made you feel bad. I have many years experience living in Europe and US and I believe I have the right to compare.

May be other people’s opinions will broaden your view on this meter. A lot of other people agree with my view.

Here is the link: http://www.city-data.com/forum/unite...dom-crime.html
Sorry, I have lived in the US all of my life and my wife of 23 years is from the UK and I lived in Switzerland for a few years as well and you have the wrong end of the stick.

Statistically the UK is safer than the US, but there is a lot of room in the US. On paper Switzerland is safer than the UK but there is a tendency to underreport things in Switzerland. So in the end it comes down to where you live and how you live and whether or not you are a victim(figuratively and literally). I know people who live in gated communities in the middle of nowhere in the US. Seriously? Who needs security in the middle of nowhere USA?

FWIW, I would live in London before I would move to Miami. I have never had problems in London. Lived in Chicago as well and never had problems there either. Went to Africa a few times and didn't have any trouble there either. But don't read a blog and expect to find "unvarnished truth" without filtering the so called facts that are contained within.

BTW, I think that you will find that the UK has had these "so called" problems with the underclass for quite a few decades now, maybe even centuries, if the novels that I have read are to be trusted.
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Old 25.07.2011, 16:21
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Re: How is the crime rate in the Switzerland compare to England?

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Statistically the UK is safer than the US, but there is a lot of room in the US. On paper Switzerland is safer than the UK but there is a tendency to underreport things in Switzerland.
Are you sure? Go to some big US cities like LA and the police are so busy they won't even come and write a report if the crime isn't serious enough. Here I've never heard of the police not coming when summoned, no matter how minor the reason. Wouldn't that lead to over-reporting rather than under-reporting.

Where there is a difference is that things are less hidden in Switzerland. So if you live in some posh up-market area in the USA you probably don't wander into the underpriveledged and crime-ridden ghettos of the big cities so often and so don't really get to see the reality there. In Switzerland there is much less space and so you don't get parallel worlds and perceptions to the same extent but everything is exposed more directly.
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Old 25.07.2011, 16:22
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Re: How is the crime rate in the Switzerland compare to England?

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many of you are so touchy about Switzerland- for the umpteenth time of course crime happens everywhere and of course I don't think that Switzerland is a grotto of murder, theft, rape and oh horror of horrors, drug use, what I am saying is that it isn't a crime-free haven either. If you expect that you are in for a shock, like my daughter was shocked when she returned 4 years ago as a teenager and found one of her ex-primarschule classmates snorting a white substance at the local provincial swimming pool.

If you want incentive to stay in Switzerland- go hiking in the mountains and breathe in the air, eat Greyezer and chocolate and get used to expecting things to work well and work on time. One of my children has moved back and the other may well do the same and we will move back eventually, even if only briefly. My kids are very pro-Swiss, so I expect to have Swiss grandchildren. I do prefer the US.

My connoisseures tell me that the beer and the wine is not that good. Kartause Ittingen beer -isn't bad and if you drink it there the surroundings are idyllic.
I love the wine in Switzerland. It is one of the main things that I miss from living there. The beer as a whole sucks. Sorry, but the beer in the UK and Germany and even Austria were much better.
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Old 25.07.2011, 16:36
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Re: How is the crime rate in the Switzerland compare to England?

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Are you sure? Go to some big US cities like LA and the police are so busy they won't even come and write a report if the crime isn't serious enough. Here I've never heard of the police not coming when summoned, no matter how minor the reason. Wouldn't that lead to over-reporting rather than under-reporting.
Either I am misunderstanding what you wrote or you misread my post.

I said that the UK is safer than the US. I also said that CH is safer than the UK, but observed that a lot of Swiss crime is underreported whereas crime in the UK is sensationalised, so the disparity isn't as horrible as it might first appear.

I do know that what you say about LA and all other densely or sparsely populated areas in the US, in that the police will not show up unless the report is about something substantial is true. The problem is that there is either too much going on and not enough people or too much distance to travel and not enough people. Either way crimes don't get properly recorded. They just get reported and no one gets around to them.

Having said that I have heard the Swiss police saying similar things during my stay there. It was too much trouble to take a report, which was annoying, or that it would be more trouble "for me" if they wrote an official report, which was very nice of the officers and probably did save me a great deal of grief.

To be honest, except for the stupid "respect" campaign and the traffic cameras, I almost never had any trouble with the Swiss police during my sojourn there. Of course, the same can be said for every country I have ever been in in my life on 4 to 5 continents.

Oh, and I would really like it if the coppers in the UK went back to more officers and fewer guns. It is really annoying to see the police there lurking about like gangs with all of the firepower that they carry. It was better when you knew that the likelihood of seeing an officer every 10 to 15 minutes was high in the cities and suburbs. I thought that was why they invented radios. But this is a different topic.
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