Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Daily life  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #161  
Old 26.07.2011, 21:33
hoppy
 
Posts: n/a
Re: How is the crime rate in the Switzerland compare to England?

Quote:
View Post
Hoppy knows a lot about Rolls Royce jet engines however.
No, not me, just scientists whose research gets patented for those and other engines. I was right about the ice accretion wasn't I? They make them- others just fly them.
Reply With Quote
  #162  
Old 26.07.2011, 21:47
hoppy
 
Posts: n/a
Re: How is the crime rate in the Switzerland compare to England?

Quote:
View Post
The kids I know do learn that stuff at school. Quite a lot of it actually.

And because Switzerland is a participative democracy, people on average understand the workings of the political system on all levels from the Gemeinde up to the Bundesrat quite well. Probably better (on average) than in any other country I know.

I thought you were a teacher? Aren't you?

Who elects the judges depends on the court in question. They are normally elected/appointed by political representatives for the relevant level of government.
OK I am back got to participate in democracy meet the congressman, TV crews etc-all very civil.

Believe me my kids never learnt this stuff, here in the US they start early.

It seems that Judges are elected on the contacts that they have for instance in some cantons a case may be decided by judges who got appointed through business contacts- what training do they have about civil law? Also I am assuming that in this system there are few, if any, judges who can identify with accused refugees?

Quote:
There are also four cantons (Aargau, Bern, St.Gallen and Zurich) in
which civil matters are heard in a commercial court, if they involve
commercial transactions worth over CHF 8,000, and if both parties or at
least the defendant are listed as firms in the commercial register. The
commercial courts also decide cases regardless of the amount in dispute
in most intellectual property matters. The judges in commercial courts
include judges from the cantonal courts of appeals, as well as
commercial judges who are not full-time judges but rather senior
business executives who are appointed to the Court upon nomination by
business associations from the canton. Decisions of labour and rent
tribunals, as well as the Commercial courts
are not open to ordinary
cantonal appeals and may only be appealed to the Federal Tribunal.
But I suppose a foreigner suspected of a crime, just gets kicked out anyway?

No, I much prefer to be before a jury of my peers and judges who themselves may well have previously been foreigners. how many foreign born judges are there in the Swiss political system I wonder? I bet it is really few! A few Italians, French or Germans if you are lucky- and that's not prejudicial?
Reply With Quote
  #163  
Old 26.07.2011, 22:12
SamWeiseVielleicht's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bern
Posts: 725
Groaned at 11 Times in 10 Posts
Thanked 893 Times in 397 Posts
SamWeiseVielleicht has a reputation beyond reputeSamWeiseVielleicht has a reputation beyond reputeSamWeiseVielleicht has a reputation beyond reputeSamWeiseVielleicht has a reputation beyond repute
Re: How is the crime rate in the Switzerland compare to England?

Quote:
View Post
It seems that Judges are elected on the contacts that they have for instance in some cantons a case may be decided by judges who got appointed through business contacts- what training do they have about civil law?
Errr... name an example please, this is ridiculous.



Quote:
View Post
Also I am assuming that in this system there are few, if any, judges who can identify with accused refugees?


Quote:
View Post
But I suppose a foreigner suspected of a crime, just gets kicked out anyway?
Nope.

Quote:
View Post
No, I much prefer to be before a jury of my peers and judges who themselves may well have previously been foreigners. how many foreign born judges are there in the Swiss political system I wonder? I bet it is really few! A few Italians, French or Germans if you are lucky- and that's not prejudicial?
It is a civil law system....

And no, there are not many foreign born judges in the swiss political system, though there are not too many swiss ones either...
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank SamWeiseVielleicht for this useful post:
  #164  
Old 26.07.2011, 22:20
hoppy
 
Posts: n/a
Re: How is the crime rate in the Switzerland compare to England?

Looks like I am not the only ignorant Swiss it's pretty common!:

Quote:
Competences in the political field have been widely referred to and evaluated, though significantly less if at all in the concepts of the institutions of general education
The resulting deficiencies have already been established many times.
With respect to the demands made of citizens by the direct democratic process in Switzerland, this is still rather surprising.
www.deseco.admin.ch/bfs/.../sfsodesecoccpswitzerland19122001.pdf

Here in the US we have debate teams this may start in middle school but generally takes place in High School, also there is mock court. both of which give a pretty good grounding.
There is the opportunity in Switzerland for Swiss to be involved in the youth court, Swiss children living overseas can also take part in the European Youth parliament has anyone on the forum had their kids do that? There are 270 places for the whole of Europe, candidates are selected.

At the higher level I only taught English unless it was a international school. In Switzerland I didn't see anything on the curriculum about politics in elementary school or opportunities outside of school to get involved. At the Kantonalschule level it depends on your course of study, the Kanton and the school itself with regards to what is taught. It isn't very in-depth, just basic stuff.
Reply With Quote
  #165  
Old 26.07.2011, 22:34
hoppy
 
Posts: n/a
Re: How is the crime rate in the Switzerland compare to England?

Quote:
View Post
Errr... name an example please, this is ridiculous.

You have one example- which I already quoted above- here it is again from a different source:
he procedures for the appointment of judges differ considerably depending on the canton and the court: judges may be appointed by the people, by the parliament, by the highest courts or by the government. In Switzerland not all judges are required to have studied law at university. Often judges in courts of the first instance (with the exception of their presidents) and justices of the peace are laypeople. The proportion of legally qualified judges increases the higher the level of the court.

http://www.ch.ch/behoerden/00215/003...x.html?lang=en


There are also four cantons (Aargau, Bern, St.Gallen and Zurich) in
which civil matters are heard in a commercial court, if they involve
commercial transactions worth over CHF 8,000, and if both parties or at
least the defendant are listed as firms in the commercial register. The
commercial courts also decide cases regardless of the amount in dispute
in most intellectual property matters. The judges in commercial courts
include judges from the cantonal courts of appeals, as well as
commercial judges who are not full-time judges but rather senior
business executives who are appointed to the Court upon nomination by
business associations from the canton.
Decisions of labour and rent
tribunals, as well as the Commercial courts are not open to ordinary
cantonal appeals and may only be appealed to the Federal Tribunal.

http://www.unidroit.info/mm/TheSwissJudicialSystem.pdf

Last edited by hoppy; 26.07.2011 at 22:47.
Reply With Quote
  #166  
Old 26.07.2011, 23:32
SamWeiseVielleicht's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bern
Posts: 725
Groaned at 11 Times in 10 Posts
Thanked 893 Times in 397 Posts
SamWeiseVielleicht has a reputation beyond reputeSamWeiseVielleicht has a reputation beyond reputeSamWeiseVielleicht has a reputation beyond reputeSamWeiseVielleicht has a reputation beyond repute
Re: How is the crime rate in the Switzerland compare to England?

You are mixing things here:

The lay-judges in penal courts are not appointed through business contacts, period. They are appointed by the competent body of the state. They are there for the exact same argument that makes you favor juries: Common sense, represent the people.

Justices of peace mainly settle very minor disagreements (usually before a civil case even starts) and contraventions. Never criminal cases.

The commercial courts decide on (specific) matters regarding trade and intellectual property, never criminal cases. The judges are appointed by the states, the "business contacts" can only nominate them.

So, unlike what you insinuated in your post, criminal cases are never decided by laypeople who got their position through "business contacts".
Reply With Quote
  #167  
Old 26.07.2011, 23:42
hoppy
 
Posts: n/a
Re: How is the crime rate in the Switzerland compare to England?

Quote:
View Post
You are mixing things here:

The lay-judges in penal courts are not appointed through business contacts, period. They are appointed by the competent body of the state. They are there for the exact same argument that makes you favor juries: Common sense, represent the people.

Justices of peace mainly settle very minor disagreements (usually before a civil case even starts) and contraventions. Never criminal cases.

The commercial courts decide on (specific) matters regarding trade and intellectual property, never criminal cases. The judges are appointed by the states, the "business contacts" can only nominate them.

So, unlike what you insinuated in your post, criminal cases are never decided by laypeople who got their position through "business contacts".
Are you negated what I quoted above? Is the source publishing an untruth?

As far as I understand it, if I am not a company but wish to sue a company for over CHF 8000 then this civil suit in the above mentioned cantons will be referred to the commercial courts. In these courts I may be judged by judges who may have been nominated by business associates within the canton, but who, in fact may have no legal training- is this not true? Neither are they elected by the public- they are elected by their business contacts.
Reply With Quote
  #168  
Old 26.07.2011, 23:52
cannut's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: canada
Posts: 6,911
Groaned at 182 Times in 142 Posts
Thanked 6,191 Times in 3,404 Posts
cannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond repute
Re: How is the crime rate in the Switzerland compare to England?

Quote:
View Post
IOnce I was looking out of the window and saw 3 soldiers pop their heads up from behind the bank at the end of the garden, they were paying hide and seek exercises with their comrades, carrying guns. I don't know if they were carrying live ammunition, but they seem to be carrying a load of stuff, with kids running around- they give the kids sweets, the kids love it! We have also have armourred vehicles race where kids play and planes dog fight over the house, You've never seen all this?
Yes! and done it to,I hope you brought them coffee with fire water in it
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank cannut for this useful post:
  #169  
Old 27.07.2011, 00:11
SamWeiseVielleicht's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bern
Posts: 725
Groaned at 11 Times in 10 Posts
Thanked 893 Times in 397 Posts
SamWeiseVielleicht has a reputation beyond reputeSamWeiseVielleicht has a reputation beyond reputeSamWeiseVielleicht has a reputation beyond reputeSamWeiseVielleicht has a reputation beyond repute
Re: How is the crime rate in the Switzerland compare to England?

Quote:
View Post
It seems that Judges are elected on the contacts that they have for instance in some cantons a case may be decided by judges who got appointed through business contacts- what training do they have about civil law? Also I am assuming that in this system there are few, if any, judges who can identify with accused refugees?
But I suppose a foreigner suspected of a crime, just gets kicked out anyway?
No "BUSINESS CONTACTS" judges in criminal cases. Period.

Quote:
View Post
The judges in commercial courts
include judges from the cantonal courts of appeals, as well as
commercial judges who are not full-time judges but rather senior
business executives who are appointed to the Court upon nomination by
business associations
from the canton. Decisions of labour and rent
tribunals, as well as the Commercial courts are not open to ordinary
cantonal appeals and may only be appealed to the Federal Tribunal.
Nomination and appointment are not the same thing.

The business associations nominate, the cantons (the competent body) appoint.

Quote:
View Post
As far as I understand it, if I am not a company but wish to sue a company for over CHF 8000 then this civil suit in the above mentioned cantons will be referred to the commercial courts.
Nope. Okay, you cannot know this, but in that case you could choose (by federal law (Art.6 Abs. 3 ZPO) between a normal court and a commercial court.

Quote:
View Post
In these courts I may be judged by judges who may have been nominated by business associates within the canton, but who, in fact may have no legal training- is this not true? Neither are they elected by the public- they are elected by their business contacts.
  1. You, as a person, will not be judged.
  2. The commercial courts are always presided by professional judges
  3. Again, they are nominated by their "business contacts" (such as the chambers of commerce) but are appointed by the canton.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank SamWeiseVielleicht for this useful post:
  #170  
Old 27.07.2011, 00:54
hoppy
 
Posts: n/a
Re: How is the crime rate in the Switzerland compare to England?

Quote:
View Post
Yes! and done it to,I hope you brought them coffee with fire water in it
No coffee and cheeses scone sandwiches or Madeira cake!
I can be nice at times! I've been told to not be so aggressive on the forum by loving people, so I'll try to play nice.....for a while.

Last edited by hoppy; 27.07.2011 at 01:45.
Reply With Quote
  #171  
Old 27.07.2011, 09:54
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 32,242
Groaned at 2,467 Times in 1,784 Posts
Thanked 39,338 Times in 18,541 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: How is the crime rate in the Switzerland compare to England?

Quote:
View Post
Here in the US we have debate teams this may start in middle school but generally takes place in High School, also there is mock court. both of which give a pretty good grounding.
Never had any of that when I went to school there!

Tom
Reply With Quote
  #172  
Old 27.07.2011, 16:18
hoppy
 
Posts: n/a
Re: How is the crime rate in the Switzerland compare to England?

Quote:
View Post
Never had any of that when I went to school there!

Tom
I got involved in judging debate, Lincoln-Douglas rigs a bell, but I have have forgotten how to do it- just Like I guess I forgot about the Swiss judicial system-it's a sign of age.
Reply With Quote
  #173  
Old 27.07.2011, 16:42
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,361
Groaned at 340 Times in 276 Posts
Thanked 26,264 Times in 11,001 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: How is the crime rate in the Switzerland compare to England?

Quote:
View Post
Also I am assuming that in this system there are few, if any, judges who can identify with accused refugees?
The judge is not supposed to identify with either side. He/she should be as neutral as possible and judge on the basis of the laws and the evidence and arguments presented by both sides.

the text you quote refers to judges in business-related cases, such as disputes over contracts and transactions between businesses. Refugee cases are unlikely to end before such courts.

To become a judge you have to first of all have a formal background in law and many years of experience working in courts of law and then be nominated.
Quote:
View Post
But I suppose a foreigner suspected of a crime, just gets kicked out anyway?
oops, more judgmental noise. Nobody gets punished on the basis of suspicion alone (even though in the case of child abuse you are the one advocating that suspicion alone should be a basis for imprisonment). Do you actually understand what a court is?

Assuming for a moment that your suspicion is right. If a foreigner is susespcted of child abuse, should he be kicked out on suspicion alone and would you approve then? Which of the two factors weighs more heavily in your view?

Quote:
View Post
No, I much prefer to be before a jury of my peers and judges who themselves may well have previously been foreigners. how many foreign born judges are there in the Swiss political system I wonder? I bet it is really few! A few Italians, French or Germans if you are lucky- and that's not prejudicial?
I don't really see what bearing this has. You know when you see a statue of Justicia, have you noticed she is wearing a blindfold. Has it ever occurred to you what's behind the symbolism. To be a judge you have to be neutral.

I for one cannot think of any country that has a nigh number of foreign-born judges.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #174  
Old 27.07.2011, 16:47
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,361
Groaned at 340 Times in 276 Posts
Thanked 26,264 Times in 11,001 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: How is the crime rate in the Switzerland compare to England?

Quote:
View Post
Here in the US we have debate teams this may start in middle school but generally takes place in High School
Although the art of engaing in debate, or even seeking to understand the arguments of those you disagree with isn't really showing right now.

You want to see racism and discrimination everywhere.

Did you ever read the story of the boy who cried wolf?

By trivilaising discrimination you are making it more difficult, not easier, to do something about it where it is for real.
Reply With Quote
  #175  
Old 27.07.2011, 17:43
hoppy
 
Posts: n/a
Re: How is the crime rate in the Switzerland compare to England?

Quote:
View Post
Although the art of engaing in debate, or even seeking to understand the arguments of those you disagree with isn't really showing right now.

You want to see racism and discrimination everywhere.

Did you ever read the story of the boy who cried wolf?

By trivilaising discrimination you are making it more difficult, not easier, to do something about it where it is for real.
I have said before that most of my posts are selfish- I just want to learn. Sometimes I understand their argument- sometimes not but that is why people discuss things - isn't it? I know that the forum is a lazy way to learn - I will be back at college soon tailoring my essays and contributing positively to group discussion, but the forum has a different format- at least for me.

Do I evoke a response with my postings? I get people's backs up I know, but my posts are honest and brave. To me the more people get involved in discussion the better the quality of the discussion. You also need people with a range of opinions and not just a grudge to bear or who are on the forum to support their clan and score points for their team. If you have noticed I don't have a team. I don't have any allegiances or anyone that I have to curry favour with, so I am a bit of a rogue element which makes people uncomfortable.

I see discrimination and racism everywhere, because the truth is that it exists everywhere, I usually defend the underdog, but not if they are morally corrupt or trying to milk the system.

How can discussing the Swiss judicial system be trivializing discrimination? I am so glad that there are people in Switzerland whom I really admire- I have met them in the Police, courts system, welfare system, but until Switzerland accepts that it is now a multiracial society and has a system of governance that reflects that society, there is little hope in truly combatting racism and discrimination.

In essence I wish that those who move to Switzerland would become Swiss citizens and get involved in contributing to the society. The Swiss people need their input in terms of ideas and cultural understanding. I understand that many foreigners are just in the country to earn and then leave- some call them economic refugees, others call them opportunists, the ex-pat community but whatever they call themselves I think that they owe a debt to the society that is hosting them. This forum is an excellent example of a positive contribution as the discussion remains open and fluid, it remains that way because it does not allow itself to be dominated by self-elected PC experts.
Reply With Quote
  #176  
Old 27.07.2011, 18:00
tom tulpe's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Horgen
Posts: 1,182
Groaned at 21 Times in 19 Posts
Thanked 1,409 Times in 646 Posts
tom tulpe has a reputation beyond reputetom tulpe has a reputation beyond reputetom tulpe has a reputation beyond reputetom tulpe has a reputation beyond reputetom tulpe has a reputation beyond repute
Re: How is the crime rate in the Switzerland compare to England?

Quote:
View Post
This forum is an excellent example of a positive contribution as the discussion remains open and fluid, it remains that way because it does not allow itself to be dominated by self-elected PC experts.
Refreshing to see coming from a person whose posts seem to imply that the Swiss judiciary is overwhelmingly pro-business, anti-foreigner, and racist.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank tom tulpe for this useful post:
  #177  
Old 27.07.2011, 18:23
hoppy
 
Posts: n/a
Re: How is the crime rate in the Switzerland compare to England?

Quote:
View Post
The judge is not supposed to identify with either side. He/she should be as neutral as possible and judge on the basis of the laws and the evidence and arguments presented by both sides.
You have accused me in your second post of not understanding the arguments of the opposition, how can a judge judge a person if he has no understanding of their culture, what may have motivated them or any cultural misunderstanding or language barriers that may have led to the case in hand?




Quote:
the text you quote refers to judges in business-related cases, such as disputes over contracts and transactions between businesses. Refugee cases are unlikely to end before such courts.
If you read the quote then in some cases only one side needs to be a business, the other can be a consumer, this is a case where a civil case can be decided in a business related court.

Quote:
To become a judge you have to first of all have a formal background in law and many years of experience working in courts of law and then be nominated.
Not always, there are exceptions, read the info I posted.


Quote:
oops, more judgmental noise. Nobody gets punished on the basis of suspicion alone (even though in the case of child abuse you are the one advocating that suspicion alone should be a basis for imprisonment). Do you actually understand what a court is?
No. I would never advocate that suspicion alone should be the basis of conviction, but most agree that children seldom lie about child abuse, in fact they are more likely to lie to shied the offender. If a child says they have been abused they usually have, which is why the courts have changed procedures for reporting and conviction in such crimes.

Quote:
Assuming for a moment that your suspicion is right. If a foreigner is susespcted of child abuse, should he be kicked out on suspicion alone and would you approve then? Which of the two factors weighs more heavily in your view?
Again. I have never said that suspicion alone is reason for conviction, I am in fact stating the opposite, that the judicial system remains unbiased so that all factors are allowed to come to light. If you are a child born and raised in Switzerland in a family that does not have Swiss nationality, if you have been abused by a family member ( say forced into prostitution) and know that reporting that person could possible lead to you and the family being kicked out of the country, when Switzerland is all you know, would you report?



Quote:
I don't really see what bearing this has. You know when you see a statue of Justicia, have you noticed she is wearing a blindfold. Has it ever occurred to you what's behind the symbolism. To be a judge you have to be neutral.

I for one cannot think of any country that has a nigh number of foreign-born judges.
There are foreign born justices in the US, but more importantly there are judges of different ethnicity. The US has moved on, now ethnicity alone is not considered by most to be the overriding factor it is the judges ability to decide on justice within a multicultural context. It is very difficult to do that if the morals of those who govern are inherently embedded in a long history of ethnocentrism.
Reply With Quote
  #178  
Old 27.07.2011, 18:31
hoppy
 
Posts: n/a
Re: How is the crime rate in the Switzerland compare to England?

Quote:
View Post
Refreshing to see coming from a person whose posts seem to imply that the Swiss judiciary is overwhelmingly pro-business, anti-foreigner, and racist.
Yes but that doesn't mean I am anti-Swiss. I see it as being pro-Swiss, that I as a Swiss, am making the effort to contribute and move the country in a positive direction. There are many such critics, the system will change but not be overtaken, Swiss common sense with prevail and Swiss people have the strength and intelligence to incorporate multiculturalism into their own unique Swiss blend. America is still distinctively American,although it is multicultural, Switzerland will own their multicultural mix and still be distinctively Swiss......

as long as the critics are allowed to speak.
Reply With Quote
  #179  
Old 27.07.2011, 18:44
tom tulpe's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Horgen
Posts: 1,182
Groaned at 21 Times in 19 Posts
Thanked 1,409 Times in 646 Posts
tom tulpe has a reputation beyond reputetom tulpe has a reputation beyond reputetom tulpe has a reputation beyond reputetom tulpe has a reputation beyond reputetom tulpe has a reputation beyond repute
Re: How is the crime rate in the Switzerland compare to England?

Quote:
View Post
You have accused me in your second post of not understanding the arguments of the opposition, how can a judge judge a person if he has no understanding of their culture, what may have motivated them or any cultural misunderstanding or language barriers that may have led to the case in hand?
That's the sort of drivel you normally get in "Honour killing" cases. Along the lines of "But M'Lud, you have to understand, she did bring shame on our family by marrying that person that we, her family, do not approve of, so I told her brother to kill her, and I'm very proud he did it". You're basically advocating that the law should not be the same for all, but should be different depending on one's cultural background. That's rather shameful.
Quote:
View Post
If you read the quote then in some cases only one side needs to be a business, the other can be a consumer, this is a case where a civil case can be decided in a business related court.
Only if the plaintiff (i.e. the consumer him/herself) so chooses.
Quote:
View Post
No. I would never advocate that suspicion alone should be the basis of conviction, but most agree that children seldom lie about child abuse, in fact they are more likely to lie to shied the offender. If a child says they have been abused they usually have, which is why the courts have changed procedures for reporting and conviction in such crimes.
Forensic evidence and the mistrials (see my earlier post) suggest the opposite is true.
Quote:
View Post
Again. I have never said that suspicion alone is reason for conviction, I am in fact stating the opposite, that the judicial system remains unbiased so that all factors are allowed to come to light. If you are a child born and raised in Switzerland in a family that does not have Swiss nationality, if you have been abused by a family member ( say forced into prostitution) and know that reporting that person could possible lead to you and the family being kicked out of the country, when Switzerland is all you know, would you report?
Why would the child be kicked out of the country? Any basis for your absurd speculation? Or is this the sort of Switzerland that you (a Swiss citizen, nevertheless) imagine exists in reality?
Quote:
View Post
There are foreign born justices in the US, but more importantly there are judges of different ethnicity. The US has moved on, now ethnicity alone is not considered by most to be the overriding factor it is the judges ability to decide on justice within a multicultural context. It is very difficult to do that if the morals of those who govern are inherently embedded in a long history of ethnocentrism.
[MODE="John Cleese"]"Overriding factor"? What sort of talk is that?! [/MODE] Ethnicity should not be a factor at all. At most, the judiciary might reflect the ethnic composition of the countries citizen as a whole, in which case the US is still behind Switzerland. Like it or not, most Swiss citizens are white. Most Zambian citizens are black. Unsurprisingly, most Swiss judges are white, and most Zambian judges are black. So?
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank tom tulpe for this useful post:
  #180  
Old 27.07.2011, 18:56
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,361
Groaned at 340 Times in 276 Posts
Thanked 26,264 Times in 11,001 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: How is the crime rate in the Switzerland compare to England?

Quote:
View Post
You have accused me in your second post of not understanding the arguments of the opposition, how can a judge judge a person if he has no understanding of their culture, what may have motivated them or any cultural misunderstanding or language barriers that may have led to the case in hand?
Because if there is a cultural issue involved surely it is the job of the defence to explain that, and make an argument as to why it should have a bearing on the case.

Quote:
View Post
No. I would never advocate that suspicion alone should be the basis of conviction, but most agree that children seldom lie about child abuse, in fact they are more likely to lie to shied the offender. If a child says they have been abused they usually have, which is why the courts have changed procedures for reporting and conviction in such crimes.
But we have presented cases of false accusation and imprisonment. It does happen.

Quote:
View Post
If you are a child born and raised in Switzerland in a family that does not have Swiss nationality, if you have been abused by a family member ( say forced into prostitution) and know that reporting that person could possible lead to you and the family being kicked out of the country, when Switzerland is all you know, would you report?
If a family member abuses a child, yes, they can theoretically get expelled. But also in such cases, if the parents were the abuers, the child would be put into foster care and hence not expelled with its parents.

Quote:
View Post
There are foreign born justices in the US, but more importantly there are judges of different ethnicity. The US has moved on, now ethnicity alone is not considered by most to be the overriding factor it is the judges ability to decide on justice within a multicultural context. It is very difficult to do that if the morals of those who govern are inherently embedded in a long history of ethnocentrism.
and if you study Switzerland, you will see that Switzerland is also a multi-ethinic and multi-cultural country and has been so far far longer than the US. The Swiss consitution and laws for example are in four languages and have been for a long time. Is there an official translation of the US constitution into any language other than English? Has any congressman or senator ever spoken to the house in a langauge other than English? Has there ever been a president whose first language wasn't English. In fact how many US presidents fluently spoke any language other than English? Not very many I'd wager. So which country has the longer history of multi-culturalism?
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How does Switzerland compare...according to the OECD Danieluk Daily life 0 20.07.2011 17:40
Swiss crime rate is dropping - especially violent crimes. Treverus Daily life 24 24.03.2011 15:48
Where's the best Zurich to watch the Switzerland v England match tomorrow night? jemalis Entertainment & dining 11 07.09.2010 22:03
how do you compare year 1 in the British system & 1st class of primary in Switzerland olympe Family matters/health 11 11.04.2010 12:16
Exchange rate CHF - EUR: where is the best rate in Basel? jttraveller Finance/banking/taxation 3 02.07.2008 12:47


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 14:29.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0