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Old 26.11.2011, 18:58
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Re: Organization that works against the sale of horses as meat?

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My recommendation would be to build slaughterhouses with glass walls in city centers. That way people can can keep an eye on the "ethical" slaughtering.

Personally for me there is no ethics in slaughter. Animals are not stupid and they know what is coming when they get lined up.
You know... this was your 58th post on this forum and easily the 50th on that very precise topic. (the others were in the "which ef member do you want to be for a day" thread where nobody wanted to be you...)

We get it, you are vegetarian. Congratulation.

Do you really have nothing else to think about all day? You seem a bit obsessed with the topic... Cheer up, there is Christmas coming up. Here is a nativity set for you:

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  #122  
Old 26.11.2011, 19:11
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Re: Organization that works against the sale of horses as meat?

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You know... this was your 58th post on this forum and easily the 50th on that very precise topic. (the others were in the "which ef member do you want to be for a day" thread where nobody wanted to be you...)
You forgot the stroller thread

Are you in kindergarten? You took a "which ef member do you want to be for a day" thread seriously? Most of all you thought I was serious on that thread?

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Do you really have nothing else to think about all day? You seem a bit obsessed with the topic... Cheer up, there is Christmas coming up. Here is a nativity set for you:
I decide which thread to take part in and which subject to think about all day. Why don't you go dress up in a nice baby Jesus suit and play your nativity games instead of trying to project your personal miseries on me?
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  #123  
Old 26.11.2011, 19:33
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Re: Organization that works against the sale of horses as meat?

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Long thread and I am not sure if anyone answered it but what exactly is the ethical difference between consuming dog, cat, cow, horse, rabbit or pig flesh? If you eat any animal then I don't think you have any right to preach

Human hypocrisy confuses the shit out of me I tell you!

Logically you do have a point there, but in that respect you can also eat humans, but personally I don't see an evolutionary split as a basis for deciding what I will consume to keep me alive.

On a more realistic point, society based, eating of domesticated animals is not as popular as cash-crop animals, although I'm sure any one who has made a personal connection to an animal will have issues killing and eating them regardless of their palette taste.
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  #124  
Old 26.11.2011, 19:36
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Re: Organization that works against the sale of horses as meat?

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I'm sure any one who has made a personal connection to an animal will have issues killing and eating them regardless of their palette taste.
Yes, we will NOT eat our PET rabbit, but we will happily eat OTHER rabbits!

(though, she should be good and tasty, albeit a bit tough at four years old)

Tom
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  #125  
Old 26.11.2011, 19:40
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Re: Organization that works against the sale of horses as meat?

Reminds me of the Simpsons episode when Homer buys a tiny lobster to raise and feed into a bigger meal, but gets attached to poor Pinchy

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  #126  
Old 26.11.2011, 19:51
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Re: Organization that works against the sale of horses as meat?

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Reminds me of the Simpsons episode when Homer buys a tiny lobster to raise and feed into a bigger meal, but gets attached to poor Pinchy
I once bought an 8lb. lobster on Cape Cod.

It was too big for any pot, so we had to kill it, and grill it!

Tom
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  #127  
Old 27.11.2011, 00:33
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Re: Organization that works against the sale of horses as meat?

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Nothing against eating horse meat - what i do object to strongly, for any animal, are the welfare, transport and slaughtering issues. If we are going to eat meat, than let's insure they are bred with care, not transported over vast distances and slaughtered as close to the farm as possible and as quickly and painlessly as possible - horses and all. There is a disgusting trade going on with horses being exported vast distances in terrible conditions, fattened up and re-exported for slaughtering. And this should stop. 1000s of horses are exported from the UK (where nobody wants to eat them) to Italy for instance, then re-exported for slaughter in Switzerland, France, etc.
I personally object to eating horse meat, dog meat or cat meat. In regard to horses, there is at least one "home for elderly horses" not too far away from your place. I visited the place enroute to Saignelégier when once visiting the
marché-concours national de chevaux




sited which is a most fascinating affair. You may say that I am one-sided, but I defintely believe that the horses "employed" in Saignelégier are not tortured into their performances .
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  #128  
Old 27.11.2011, 00:53
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Re: Organization that works against the sale of horses as meat?

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I personally object to eating horse meat, dog meat or cat meat. In regard to horses, there is at least one "home for elderly horses" not too far away from your place. I visited the place enroute to Saignelégier when once visiting the
marché-concours national de chevaux

sited which is a most fascinating affair. You may say that I am one-sided, but I defintely believe that the horses "employed" in Saignelégier are not tortured into their performances .
There are two Foundation for Horses in Les Franches-Montagnes, Les Bois and Roselet. I'm sure I saw horse on the restaurant menu there though . The people I know that eat horse meat are generally those who like horses, similar to those that eat beef like cows. They appreciate what they're eating. Personally, I don't like horse meat, think it smells weird..
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  #129  
Old 27.11.2011, 01:31
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Re: Organization that works against the sale of horses as meat?

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There are two Foundation for Horses in Les Franches-Montagnes, Les Bois and Roselet. I'm sure I saw horse on the restaurant menu there though . The people I know that eat horse meat are generally those who like horses, similar to those that eat beef like cows. They appreciate what they're eating. Personally, I don't like horse meat, think it smells weird..
Thanks for your observation. I this year once by error got horsemeat and I tried to be realistic and enjoy it, but also felt it smelled weird. I thought it was possibly a psychological issue simply of me.
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  #130  
Old 27.11.2011, 01:37
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Re: Organization that works against the sale of horses as meat?

Question is why horse and not cows?
Is there a cost benefit?
Is there an advantage healthwise?

Agree with some that because you see horses as " close to best friends" , it gets very emotional, as you take care of them, ride them, clean them.... There is a visualization of horses and humans together!

Now, I am very surprise abou someone mentioning dog meat and cat being legal!!! That is too much, even to think about it.
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  #131  
Old 27.11.2011, 13:26
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Re: Organization that works against the sale of horses as meat?

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Question is why horse and not cows?
Is there a cost benefit?
Is there an advantage healthwise?

Agree with some that because you see horses as " close to best friends" , it gets very emotional, as you take care of them, ride them, clean them.... There is a visualization of horses and humans together!

Now, I am very surprise abou someone mentioning dog meat and cat being legal!!! That is too much, even to think about it.
Yes, if horse-meat is legal, why not dog-meat and cat-meat ? No real legal reasons. And yes, my objection to the three sorts of meat IS emotional, highly emotional even, but I will support whomever objects and opposes to the concept and the idea

There in the early 1960ies were cases when police found out that certain Saisonniers had caught dogs and cats and grilled them. Police after those reports was busy to ensure that none of the Saisonniers got slaughtered/grilled by "natives". When it, in the same times, became known that a particular Chinese restaurant had done the same and sold the stuff as beef, the gastronome and his place went through difficult times
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  #132  
Old 27.11.2011, 15:43
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Re: Organization that works against the sale of horses as meat?

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Yes, if horse-meat is legal, why not dog-meat and cat-meat ?
Actually, they are legal to eat here, it's selling the meat that is illegal.

Tom
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  #133  
Old 27.11.2011, 16:32
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Re: Organization that works against the sale of horses as meat?

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When it, in the same times, became known that a particular Chinese restaurant had done the same and sold the stuff as beef, the gastronome and his place went through difficult times
Sorry, but without source is this simply an urban legend. I have eaten dog in China and it's pretty simple: Dog meat is a speciality and therefore way more expensive and harder to find than normal beef or pork.

So while I do not question that some Asian restaurants would cook and sell it to you: They would charge you a premium for it.
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  #134  
Old 27.11.2011, 16:54
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Re: Organization that works against the sale of horses as meat?

Eating cats and dogs in Switzerland was very common during the war and rationing. My dad realised he had eaten his favourite St Bernard a few days after the event, in 1917 (aged 5) - worse thing for him is that he really enjoyed it and gorged on it, after years o hardly any meat during the first WW. His relationship with his dad never ever recovered. The local hockey club still has a cat on their shirts- as in the 50s they always started the hockey season by catching a big moggie in a sack, killing it and cooking it. And when I was little and we had a big wave son single Italian workers coming to work in the tyre and battery factory, we always made sure our large cats were kept inside for a few weeks either side of Christmas. Grosgros did get out week before Christmas and was never seen again- a huge ginger 2 year old male cat my brother just adored.

Don't think it ever happens around here anymore- but it is still a tradition to eat St Bernard in some of the central Kantons and Appenzel in rural areas, and is not against the law. There was an article in 20 Minuten in January to that effect.
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  #135  
Old 27.11.2011, 17:01
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Re: Organization that works against the sale of horses as meat?

When I moved to Ticino in '90, I was cautioned by a co-worker to make sure our cats had collars if they roamed.

Not because those who eat cats would care that they were pets, but rather if they saw a collar they would assume that they were fed on industrial food and thus were of inferior quality taste wise!

Tom
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  #136  
Old 27.11.2011, 17:06
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Re: Organization that works against the sale of horses as meat?

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Actually, they are legal to eat here, it's selling the meat that is illegal.

Tom
This to me is Voodoo law. If it is legal to eat the stuff, it should be legal to sell it. And in reality, if you are a producer/seller and know that you customers are doing nothing illegal you will always have your market
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  #137  
Old 27.11.2011, 17:08
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Re: Organization that works against the sale of horses as meat?

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Sorry, but without source is this simply an urban legend. I have eaten dog in China and it's pretty simple: Dog meat is a speciality and therefore way more expensive and harder to find than normal beef or pork.

So while I do not question that some Asian restaurants would cook and sell it to you: They would charge you a premium for it.
A) It was in a time without internet
B) I was a teenager

It however was in Tages Anzeiger and NZZ in those times. That you regard the journailists of TA and NZZ as spreaders of legends is not my problem
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  #138  
Old 27.11.2011, 17:19
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Re: Organization that works against the sale of horses as meat?

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Eating cats and dogs in Switzerland was very common during the war and rationing. My dad realised he had eaten his favourite St Bernard a few days after the event, in 1917 (aged 5) - worse thing for him is that he really enjoyed it and gorged on it, after years o hardly any meat during the first WW. His relationship with his dad never ever recovered. The local hockey club still has a cat on their shirts- as in the 50s they always started the hockey season by catching a big moggie in a sack, killing it and cooking it. And when I was little and we had a big wave son single Italian workers coming to work in the tyre and battery factory, we always made sure our large cats were kept inside for a few weeks either side of Christmas. Grosgros did get out week before Christmas and was never seen again- a huge ginger 2 year old male cat my brother just adored.

Don't think it ever happens around here anymore- but it is still a tradition to eat St Bernard in some of the central Kantons and Appenzel in rural areas, and is not against the law. There was an article in 20 Minuten in January to that effect.
Alright alright, in times with no meat practically available, I would simply drop my principles and emotions and ideas and consume all three sorts of meat. The same if really in urgent need (or simply desire). And in the case I mentioned I DID grill that piece of horsemeat and tried to enjoy it, except that it was not the lamb I wanted, Sorry, I think that the meat of a Bernhardiner would be clearly better

All this however does not change my basic attitude not to eat any of the three kinds of meat as long as I have the choice. It admittedly would be a difference if being told to have the difference between dog-meat and no meat at all.
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  #139  
Old 27.11.2011, 17:28
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Re: Organization that works against the sale of horses as meat?

Actually, we basically never ate much fresh horse before I met my (current) wife five years ago (though horsemeat sausages and mostbroeckli were a favorite, as were donkey products).

Now it's a staple, and both of my daughters (18 and 21) love it as well.

I have Italian friends who were shocked to learn that people in CH eat horse, but are perfectly fine with eating donkey! (WTF?)

Tom
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  #140  
Old 28.11.2011, 08:18
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Re: Organization that works against the sale of horses as meat?

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Personally for me there is no ethics in slaughter. Animals are not stupid and they know what is coming when they get lined up.
Yes, if only we could teach them the right example, then they would never hurt each other and live forever.
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