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-   -   CS & UBS Job Cuts will cost the UK tax revenue (https://www.englishforum.ch/daily-life/120845-cs-ubs-job-cuts-will-cost-uk-tax-revenue.html)

fatmanfilms 31.07.2011 11:18

CS & UBS Job Cuts will cost the UK tax revenue
 
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...x-revenue.html


"Credit Suisse, Goldman Sachs and UBS are already preparing to cut hundreds of London-based employees, but with revenues from trading and securities underwriting collapsing as the eurozone and US debt crisis hits investor activity, many other banks are expected to follow their lead and begin cutting jobs.

........

The cuts, the majority of which have yet to be announced, will strike a blow to the UK's financial services sector, which remains one of the country's largest employers, despite the job losses in the wake of the financial crisis.

Estimates vary, but a 5pc reduction by the end of the year in the total number of "City-type" jobs is thought likely. This would equal a loss of about 16,000 jobs in the next five months.

Based on an average salary of £150,000 and income tax of 50pc, employer national insurance of 2pc and employee national insurance of 2pc, this works out an average lost tax income per lost City job of £81,000, or a total loss of about £1.3bn in tax revenue."

HSBC just announced 10,000 job losses!

Guest 31.07.2011 11:30

Re: CS & UBS Job Cuts will cost the UK tax revenue
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fatmanfilms (Post 1282823)

Thats what happens when you raise taxs on companys who have decreasing revenues..... When governments borrow too much they have to keep increasing taxs until the companies finally give up.

Most of my friends in the City who work at institutions are all looking to move to Switzerland, Singapore, HK, or Luxembourg.

NikItaly 31.07.2011 11:57

Re: CS & UBS Job Cuts will cost the UK tax revenue
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuger (Post 1282837)
Thats what happens when you raise taxs on companys who have decreasing revenues..... When governments borrow too much they have to keep increasing taxs until the companies finally give up.

Most of my friends in the City who work at institutions are all looking to move to Switzerland, Singapore, HK, or Luxembourg.

Maybe your friends are better off skipping CH, those swiss banks put long lasting hire freezes here, perhaps some contracts are still feasible, but no comparison with the booming equities context in SNG/ HK.

Guest 31.07.2011 11:59

Re: CS & UBS Job Cuts will cost the UK tax revenue
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by NikItaly (Post 1282877)
Maybe your friends are better off skipping CH, those swiss banks put long lasting hire freezes here, perhaps some contracts are still feasible, but no comparison with the booming equities context in SNG/ HK.

I think it has more to do with all these guys trying to get into hedge funds etc. I agree that the big institutions are not the way to go anymore, outside of Asia.

Wollishofener 31.07.2011 12:58

Re: CS & UBS Job Cuts will cost the UK tax revenue
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fatmanfilms (Post 1282823)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...x-revenue.html


"Credit Suisse, Goldman Sachs and UBS are already preparing to cut hundreds of London-based employees, but with revenues from trading and securities underwriting collapsing as the eurozone and US debt crisis hits investor activity, many other banks are expected to follow their lead and begin cutting jobs.

........

The cuts, the majority of which have yet to be announced, will strike a blow to the UK's financial services sector, which remains one of the country's largest employers, despite the job losses in the wake of the financial crisis.

Estimates vary, but a 5pc reduction by the end of the year in the total number of "City-type" jobs is thought likely. This would equal a loss of about 16,000 jobs in the next five months.

Based on an average salary of £150,000 and income tax of 50pc, employer national insurance of 2pc and employee national insurance of 2pc, this works out an average lost tax income per lost City job of £81,000, or a total loss of about £1.3bn in tax revenue."

HSBC just announced 10,000 job losses!

The loss of up from 16'000 to 30'000 jobs is horrible, even for a metropolis like London. While the less than 1000 in Zurich will fairly easily be absorbed in a job market where qualified people are required, I don't know about London.

Reminds me of an Algerian journalist who, in a Paris paper, in October 2001 wrote "we all in a way are """terrorists""" . So that we now have to say
"we all in a way are """ bankers """ :(:o

The bad thing is that the "highdays" of the bankers did not improve much for the general people, but their breakdown out of daydreams possibly DOES do a lot of damage to the general people

This here is the Euro on "oanda.com"
1,13083
and this here is the US$ on "oanda.com"
0,78531

That means that Swiss industry will outsource production to elsewhere in the months to come, and THIS will cause the loss of jobs, may be only 10'000 or may be up to 50'000 or 100'000 .

The political effects in Switzerland ? Mr Schneider-Ammann consulting his travel-agency about arrangements to Australia. And Mrs Widmer-Schlumpf consulting some people in GraubŁnden about a new job.

As a side-effect it is to be noted that the Schweizer-Franken-Krise is getting worse by the day now :(


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Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuger (Post 1282837)
Thats what happens when you raise taxs on companys who have decreasing revenues..... When governments borrow too much they have to keep increasing taxs until the companies finally give up.

Most of my friends in the City who work at institutions are all looking to move to Switzerland, Singapore, HK, or Luxembourg.

TO Switzerland ? are they out of their senses, completely mad, or what ? to a country where the economy is seriously in trouble ?

if in Europe, to Luxemburg, where they early enough joined the Euro

Guest 31.07.2011 13:03

Re: CS & UBS Job Cuts will cost the UK tax revenue
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wollishofener (Post 1282939)
TO Switzerland ? are they out of their senses or what ? to a country where the economy is seriously in trouble ?

if in Europe to Luxemburg, where they early enough joined the Euro

They only see the tax %.....;)

You would be in shock. Plenty of UK firms and people moving to Pfaffikon SZ, Zug, etc

Wollishofener 31.07.2011 13:10

Re: CS & UBS Job Cuts will cost the UK tax revenue
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuger (Post 1282941)
They only see the tax %.....;)

You would be in shock. Plenty of UK firms and people moving to Pfaffikon SZ, Zug, etc

Yes & No :) Those folks will increase domestic consumption, will need more services, will increase the airfreight volume between their origin and here, will increase the insurance-business, will take offshore-business overhere

Yes, I AM shocked as I am not yet used to see Switzerland as a landlocked version of the Cayman Islands.

Maybe, Switzerland should join forces with some folks in the Caribbean and launch the BRFTA (Banana Republics Free Trade Association) :D

And indeed, a positive result may be that those British companies will give employment to whomever gets "recommended out" of banks here

Caviarchips 31.07.2011 13:15

Re: CS & UBS Job Cuts will cost the UK tax revenue
 
[QUOTE=Wollishofener;

As a side-effect it is to be noted that the Schweizer-Franken-Krise is getting worse by the day now :(


************************************************** ***********************************



TO Switzerland ? are they out of their senses, completely mad, or what ? to a country where the economy is seriously in trouble ?

if in Europe, to Luxemburg, where they early enough joined the Euro[/QUOTE]

Is the economy here in serious trouble? I have to say that i don't understand this stuff well, but isn't CH better placed versus other countries?

Looking for some simple education please

Guest 31.07.2011 13:31

Re: CS & UBS Job Cuts will cost the UK tax revenue
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Caviarchips (Post 1282948)
Is the economy here in serious trouble? I have to say that i don't understand this stuff well, but isn't CH better placed versus other countries?

Looking for some simple education please

Switzerland is fine for the moment, but when the banks in Europe start to go bust they will take many large Swiss banks with them. It will also be another 6 to 12 months before the strong CHF starts to destroy exports. And that will eventually hurt. The one thing that Switzerland has on its side is the demographic issue of too many elderly people. As more and more Swiss workers retire there is trouble finding people to replace them. So the unemployment rate stays low and wages stay high. This is another reason Switzerland is in desperate need of Auslanders.

http://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&ik...disp=inline&zw

Wollishofener 31.07.2011 13:46

Re: CS & UBS Job Cuts will cost the UK tax revenue
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Caviarchips (Post 1282948)
Is the economy here in serious trouble? I have to say that i don't understand this stuff well, but isn't CH better placed versus other countries?

Looking for some simple education please

The economy IS in serious trouble. Companies in the export industry (money bringer nr 1 in Switzerland) have rapidly shrinking profits, and many are to outsource production units to other countries in order to stay competitive. Just look at what the Swatch group now will do. The inbound-tourism sector (money bringer nr 2 in Switzerland) is in trouble, with shrinking profits and shrinking numbers of tourists. Interesting of course is to see that up to now, inbound tourism to metropolitan areas has not been much effected, BUT the inbound tourism to the rural areas has been badly hit. This means that CH is far worse placed right now versus other countries.

The SNB made some losses ? Sad, but who cares ? The SNB owns tons of gold. In reality the SNB worked in favour of the country, which is the duty of this institution. Nobody except some SVP buddies expects the SNB to make profits like a commercial bank. You see, the SNB in reality, quite unlike the commercial banks, cannot go broke.

In short, the present development of the exchange rate means that Switzerland increasingly is in deep shit. Companies outsourcing production units to other places means the loss of 10'000s of jobs. :msnsad::msnsad::msnsad:

31.07.2011 13:48

Re: CS & UBS Job Cuts will cost the UK tax revenue
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fatmanfilms (Post 1282823)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...x-revenue.html


"Credit Suisse, Goldman Sachs and UBS are already preparing to cut hundreds of London-based employees, but with revenues from trading and securities underwriting collapsing as the eurozone and US debt crisis hits investor activity, many other banks are expected to follow their lead and begin cutting jobs.

........

The cuts, the majority of which have yet to be announced, will strike a blow to the UK's financial services sector, which remains one of the country's largest employers, despite the job losses in the wake of the financial crisis.

Estimates vary, but a 5pc reduction by the end of the year in the total number of "City-type" jobs is thought likely. This would equal a loss of about 16,000 jobs in the next five months.

Based on an average salary of £150,000 and income tax of 50pc, employer national insurance of 2pc and employee national insurance of 2pc, this works out an average lost tax income per lost City job of £81,000, or a total loss of about £1.3bn in tax revenue."

HSBC just announced 10,000 job losses!

How wrong is that calculation at the end? Not only is income tax in the UK on a sliding scale so the whole amount isn't taxed at the top rate and the 50% income tax rate doesn't come into effect until after 150k has been earned :confused:

31.07.2011 13:53

Re: CS & UBS Job Cuts will cost the UK tax revenue
 
Wolli must be the only one in the world who thinks that Switzerland should have joined the Euro :confused:

Wollishofener 31.07.2011 13:56

Re: CS & UBS Job Cuts will cost the UK tax revenue
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuger (Post 1282964)
Switzerland is fine for the moment, but when the banks in Europe start to go bust they will take many large Swiss banks with them. It will also be another 6 to 12 months before the strong CHF starts to destroy exports. And that will eventually hurt. The one thing that Switzerland has on its side is the demographic issue of too many elderly people. As more and more Swiss workers retire there is trouble finding people to replace them. So the unemployment rate stays low and wages stay high. This is another reason Switzerland is in desperate need of Auslanders.

http://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&ik...disp=inline&zw

No, Switzerland is NOT fine. The problem for the moment is not whether some banks somewhere go bust or not, the problem is that both the export industry and inbound tourism, on which the country depends, are increasingly in trouble. You talk about 6 to 12 months in regard to the export-industry. But Nick Hayek speaks about a far shorter time. True, the unemployment rate is to STAY low as between 1990 and 2030, the CH workforce is to decline rapidly, as the "babyboomers" are getting retired.


************************************************** ****


Quote:

Originally Posted by porsch1909 (Post 1282987)
Wolli must be the only one in the world who thinks that Switzerland should have joined the Euro :confused:

No, there are least seven ( 7 ! ) others, among them Mr Bodenmann :D:D



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Phil_MCR 31.07.2011 14:05

Re: CS & UBS Job Cuts will cost the UK tax revenue
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wollishofener (Post 1282991)
No, Switzerland is NOT fine. The problem for the moment is not whether some banks somewhere go bust or not, the problem is that both the export industry and inbound tourism, on which the country depends, are increasingly in trouble. You talk about 6 to 12 months in regard to the export-industry. But Nick Hayek speaks about a far shorter time. True, the unemployment rate is to STAY low as between 1990 and 2030, the CH workforce is to decline rapidly, as the "babyboomers" are getting retired.

tourism in trouble? can you give some numbers to show this?

Wollishofener 31.07.2011 14:22

Re: CS & UBS Job Cuts will cost the UK tax revenue
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil_MCR (Post 1283000)
tourism in trouble? can you give some numbers to show this?

This aspect has been in the news sufficiently. The number of tourists have not yet declined so much but have, as reported on TV
http://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/portal/d...gnpID=2011-403
, but the profits of companies HAVE as they had to continue with the prices of early 2010 which means that many of them are making losses or just surviving with meagre profits. In the Sonntags-Zeitung a week ago was a report about Mr Bodenmann who does tours for tourists out of his hotel in the Ober-Wallis and who has started to drop tours inside Switzerland but leads his customers over to nearby Italy. Many regional tourist authorities can deliver you some figures in details. And again, it has been in the media extensively enough.

Compare the statistic given above with THIS report here
-
http://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/prd/de/i...tourismus.html
-
which shows that the metropolitan areas in Switzerland on the tourism-front, at least up to now, have not suffered really, and then you realize that the picture in the mountain-areas is very bad

Imagine that figures in tourism are bad to establish, as A) it does not just depend on hotel-nights, but on what the tourists spend locally, and as B) there are no figures available about the profits or losses of the tourism industry in general (many of the entreprises in question are family entreprises or even one-man-shows.

The actual figures will not become clearer as many hotel owners are in the process of gradually winding down their places and changing them into holiday-apartment houses. They not only will save salaries but also infrastructure-costs, as you do not need light in an empty apartment etc.

Also this aspect has been widely reported in the media.

jj muge 31.07.2011 14:24

Re: CS & UBS Job Cuts will cost the UK tax revenue
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil_MCR (Post 1283000)
tourism in trouble? can you give some numbers to show this?

http://www.eturbonews.com/24237/swit...ng-euro-crisis
This article, which is based on an NZZ article and interview with the director of Swiss Tourism gives you some numbers. And besides foreign tourist who avoid Switzerland due to the "higher prices"/strong franc the article suggests that more swiss than usual go for their holidays outside of Switzerland to enjoy the strong franc.

Phil_MCR 31.07.2011 14:45

Re: CS & UBS Job Cuts will cost the UK tax revenue
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jj muge (Post 1283023)
http://www.eturbonews.com/24237/swit...ng-euro-crisis
This article, which is based on an NZZ article and interview with the director of Swiss Tourism gives you some numbers. And besides foreign tourist who avoid Switzerland due to the "higher prices"/strong franc the article suggests that more swiss than usual go for their holidays outside of Switzerland to enjoy the strong franc.

interesting. though there are a few factors other than currency at play.

it seems to have eluded the swiss tourism industry that there has been quite a big economic crisis around the world and that this would have an impact on disposable income and holiday habits.

"staycations" have been growing in popularity in the UK for a while now.

also, it sounds like they completely bungled capitalising on a broad economic trend: namely, the rise of china, russia and india.

one company i know of in the UK has a single store and they spend 80% of their marketing on adverts in China.

the industry seems to be incompetent and is seeking to be bailed out by the SNB and other CHF holders in Switzerland.

i don't see an industry in trouble, but rather a whopping great opportunity that is not being taken.

jj muge 31.07.2011 16:51

Re: CS & UBS Job Cuts will cost the UK tax revenue
 
I can well imagine that the currency issue is just intensifying problems in these regions which were/are set in their ways (from the eturbo article "As many regions in Switzerland depend entirely on German and Swiss guests"). On one hand I understand it is difficult to market longer stays in small (mountain) resorts to people who live so far away just as it is (to develop other strategies to reach "nearer" european and swiss customers might be a better idea for them) and many smaller resorts/hotels lack the money and/or ideas to adapt. On the other hand, this is completely off topic:p

fatmanfilms 31.07.2011 16:57

Re: CS & UBS Job Cuts will cost the UK tax revenue
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by porsch1909 (Post 1282985)
How wrong is that calculation at the end? Not only is income tax in the UK on a sliding scale so the whole amount isn't taxed at the top rate and the 50% income tax rate doesn't come into effect until after 150k has been earned :confused:

The Loss to the government is well over 50% because of National Insurance Contributions.

Many of the Banksters will have had bonus's of £1,000,000 plus, average pay at banks is missleading. The government also received an ectra 50% tax from the company last year for big bonus's.

Phil_MCR 31.07.2011 16:59

Re: CS & UBS Job Cuts will cost the UK tax revenue
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jj muge (Post 1283153)
I can well imagine that the currency issue is just intensifying problems in these regions which were/are set in their ways (from the eturbo article "As many regions in Switzerland depend entirely on German and Swiss guests"). On one hand I understand it is difficult to market longer stays in small (mountain) resorts to people who live so far away just as it is (to develop other strategies to reach "nearer" european and swiss customers might be a better idea for them) and many smaller resorts/hotels lack the money and/or ideas to adapt. On the other hand, this is completely off topic:p

yeah. what gets my goat is that instead of anticipating and dealing with challenges in businesses, they just ask for a bailout instead. people who can't keep themselves in business should simply be left to go bankrupt. and this includes banks.


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