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  #41  
Old 09.08.2011, 01:11
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Re: Why aren't prices falling...?

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I wonder if the OP was asking a rhetorical question

When I discuss prices with Swiss colleagues, I always get the same stock answer: "You are paid more here"

Using this logic, a millionaire might be happy to pay CHF 200 for a burger. A rip-off is a rip-off, regardless of your income. Another swiss gave me the stock answer this evening and it made my blood boil

If I mention this, I get the other stock answer: "you should leave Switzerland"
I am very very sorry, but are your "Swiss colleagues" dementia-ridden snobs ? Or are they too dull to try to tackle the subject really ? I do not know how you put your question forward !? It possibly is provoking the response you mention. But it is absolutely NOT what people here feel. It is not what people here talk about.

Your lack of insight can make the blood of non-relaxed people boil !
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  #42  
Old 09.08.2011, 02:19
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Re: Why aren't prices falling...?

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In any business there is a price people will pay, that price is not connected in any way with the price of producing the product. This is the reason why most of the US motor industry went bankrupt a couple of years ago. Selling a product below the cost of making it!

Salaries are high because costs are high....... If the prices were lower so would ExPat salaries.
1. Did I mention input prices? No
2. The swiss I spoke to today said "paid more" NOT "expats paid more"
3. Prices are high because the market is rigged and locals invent ways to make themselves accept it. Foreigners are not forced to accept it...so there is an active "Leaving Switzerland" forum. Looking at an expat site for Canada I noticed that they didn't have a prominent "Leaving Canada" forum. Instead they had a "celebrate the number of years I've been here" forum.
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  #43  
Old 09.08.2011, 02:36
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Re: Why aren't prices falling...?

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I am very very sorry, but are your "Swiss colleagues" dementia-ridden snobs ? Or are they too dull to try to tackle the subject really ? I do not know how you put your question forward !? It possibly is provoking the response you mention. But it is absolutely NOT what people here feel. It is not what people here talk about.

Your lack of insight can make the blood of non-relaxed people boil !
My colleagues aren't the average Swiss that you refer to when you say "people here". Unless the average Swiss is into Arbitrage Trading Strategies

I put my question as follows: "(Overpriced product of the week) is ridiculously expensive here"

I don't ask the question as follows: "I'm challenging your world view and you must either object vehemently or come to the conclusion that you are happy to be raped daily"
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  #44  
Old 09.08.2011, 06:48
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Re: Why aren't prices falling...?

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Sorry - but who is 'Switzerland' in this context?

The consumer?
The shop/tradesman?
The distributor?
The importers?
The original producer?


Where does the 'paying more' stop - Someone is really coining it in. The CHF has appreciated massively in the last few years, prices on just about everything imported (except maybe price volatile stuff like oil products) should have dropped continuously and by a large amount over that time.
Who is Switzerland? All of the above, except the consumer. What I was trying to say was it mostly starts at the original producer level selling the same product at different prices depending on what the "market" will stand. As everyone in the supply chain adds their % it gets exagerated by the time it gets to the Swiss consumer, as Grumpy says below. These %s will have to be looked at (by all of the above) when the Swiss consumer starts to vote with their feet, not something I can see happening on a large scale in the near future.

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A drop of say up to 40% for Swiss importers for the cost of supplied products in the UK/Euroland due to the strength of the SFr would equate to about 5-10% drop in the retail price in CH. Hardly a large amount but if some retailers are not now passing on that saving, they soon will have to.
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  #45  
Old 09.08.2011, 10:24
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Re: Why aren't prices falling...?

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There you go, supporting the robber barons again. I said it was tender and delicious. Why pay more?
Let me ask you a simple question : How much money is spent in Switzerland for food (from food markets, not restaurants) versus tax/rent/transport/insurances etc ?
That's why most of the the swiss don't even bother on food prices.
However, I didn't say it's good to pay more for the same product or pay more just because you afford it, you buy what it satisfies you the most, and please let's not talk again about ALDI. If you're so happy to buy from there, please do it, but don't blame others for not doing so.
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  #46  
Old 09.08.2011, 17:26
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Re: Why aren't prices falling...?

When I lived nearer the border I shopped in France every week. With a much higher French sales tax of 17 % I found Swiss products in France were cheaper!

Packet of Maggi dried soup, half the Swiss price. Tube of Swiss Voltaren cream in a French pharmacy at a ski resort, half price.

So there are 2 direct comparisons. After considering the higher tax, the transport, the import costs etc. the products should have been at least 10% more expensive, instead they were half price. The French didn't offer many Swiss products, and unlike cheese I am fairly sure these were not subvention-ed.

Don't feed the fat greedy importers. Vote with your feet and buy elsewhere, whenever you can.
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Old 11.08.2011, 10:47
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Re: Why aren't prices falling...?

Calls for action over pricey imports
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  #48  
Old 11.08.2011, 10:59
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Re: Why aren't prices falling...?

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....So there are 2 direct comparisons. After considering the higher tax, the transport, the import costs etc. the products should have been at least 10% more expensive, instead they were half price. The French didn't offer many Swiss products, and unlike cheese I am fairly sure these were not subvention-ed......
Actually against this you should consider the higher shop rental / building costs and higher shop wages in Switzerland. However this would perhaps justify a 10% - 20% higher price here (before VAT), not double.
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  #49  
Old 11.08.2011, 11:04
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Re: Why aren't prices falling...?

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Actually against this you should consider the higher shop rental / building costs and higher shop wages in Switzerland. However this would perhaps justify a 10% - 20% higher price here (before VAT), not double.
If you think the Swiss shops make too much profit, there is nothing to stop you opening up in competition & making less profit than they do.
Salaries are was higher here & are most business's highest overhead.
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  #50  
Old 11.08.2011, 11:07
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Re: Why aren't prices falling...?

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He said the round table meeting made him “more confident than before” that a solution could be found. But he refused to support calls by the consumer groups for a 20 per cent cut on imported products.
"My business friends won't be able to buy that second villa if I do!"
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  #51  
Old 11.08.2011, 11:16
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Re: Why aren't prices falling...?

At some stage, the Euro has to claw it's way back. Then watch the prices go up!!!

I think the biggest exploiters of the current situation are swiss dealers of european cars. Rather than drop the price, they seem to only want to add extras. And then they wonder why so many people are now buying cars accross the border.

One reason for this is the high rate of leased cars in Switzerland..dealers know that to lease a car here they have the monopoly. But people are becoming smarter. Migrosbank offers private loans for 5.9% ...comparable to a lease, tax deductable interest, no obligation for full insurance,and you can sell the car any time you want. Buy the car in Germany from a dealer who will do all the paperwork for you, and you've saved yourself about 30% of the price. The lease on my car is up in February, I'm considering doing this if I decide to update my car.
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  #52  
Old 11.08.2011, 12:05
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Re: Why aren't prices falling...?

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At some stage, the Euro has to claw it's way back. Then watch the prices go up!!!

I think the biggest exploiters of the current situation are swiss dealers of european cars. Rather than drop the price, they seem to only want to add extras. And then they wonder why so many people are now buying cars accross the border.

One reason for this is the high rate of leased cars in Switzerland..dealers know that to lease a car here they have the monopoly. But people are becoming smarter. Migrosbank offers private loans for 5.9% ...comparable to a lease, tax deductable interest, no obligation for full insurance,and you can sell the car any time you want. Buy the car in Germany from a dealer who will do all the paperwork for you, and you've saved yourself about 30% of the price. The lease on my car is up in February, I'm considering doing this if I decide to update my car.
Why not just buy the exlease car and save even more money?
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  #53  
Old 11.08.2011, 13:15
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Re: Why aren't prices falling...?

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"My business friends won't be able to buy that second villa if I do!"
He also said
"Today the consumer might not see any result of our talks but I’m confident that there will be a positive impact,” Schneider-Ammann told the media.

Typical politician.
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  #54  
Old 11.08.2011, 13:26
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Re: Why aren't prices falling...?

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If you think the Swiss shops make too much profit, there is nothing to stop you opening up in competition & making less profit than they do.
Salaries are was higher here & are most business's highest overhead.
Where did I say that? If anything it tends to be the importers/wholesalers who are price gauging.
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  #55  
Old 11.08.2011, 14:06
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Re: Why aren't prices falling...?

Lets work through some examples shall we:

A white good (made in Germany) sells from producer to German wholesaler at 500eur. From German wholesaler to Swiss wholesaler for 650eur, from there to the retailer for 1,200chf (800eur) - and to the consumer for 1,500chf (1000eur).

The price at the start of the chain remains the same - so assuming the same margins in EUR the prices becaome 500eur, 650eur, 800chf and then 1000chf.

Anyone searching for white goods at the moment can find prices down from last year.

So that is something bit, something easy to price. But look at the small stuff - often the fixed costs of selling the item (transportation, rent, wages) make up the largest part of the costs (but not always). An FX move of the raw material might knock 33% off - but that may only mean an extra 10% profit on the final price ticket.

Additionally companies may run fixed cost contracts - where the euro based seller agreed a contract in CHF.

Finally, there is absolutely no guarantee that the move will remain, what happens if it shifts back to 1.20?

If you earn in CHF and live in Switzerland - is it really any skin off your nose what something costs somewhere else? Is your time so inconsequential you'll spend an extra 2 hours each week driving to another country to do your weekly shop??
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Old 11.08.2011, 14:34
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Re: Why aren't prices falling...?

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Lets work through some examples shall we:

A white good (made in Germany) sells from producer to German wholesaler at 500eur. From German wholesaler to Swiss wholesaler for 650eur, from there to the retailer for 1,200chf (800eur) - and to the consumer for 1,500chf (1000eur).

The price at the start of the chain remains the same - so assuming the same margins in EUR the prices becaome 500eur, 650eur, 800chf and then 1000chf.

Anyone searching for white goods at the moment can find prices down from last year.

So that is something bit, something easy to price. But look at the small stuff - often the fixed costs of selling the item (transportation, rent, wages) make up the largest part of the costs (but not always). An FX move of the raw material might knock 33% off - but that may only mean an extra 10% profit on the final price ticket.

Additionally companies may run fixed cost contracts - where the euro based seller agreed a contract in CHF.

Finally, there is absolutely no guarantee that the move will remain, what happens if it shifts back to 1.20?

If you earn in CHF and live in Switzerland - is it really any skin off your nose what something costs somewhere else? Is your time so inconsequential you'll spend an extra 2 hours each week driving to another country to do your weekly shop??
About "Is your time so inconsequential you'll spend an extra 2 hours each week driving to another country to do your weekly shop??"

Depends how long the drive is to do the weekly shop in this country. For me it is about the same time to a large Swiss Supermarket or a large German one; in fact slightly shorter to the German one which also has a much larger (and free) car park.
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Old 11.08.2011, 14:53
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Re: Why aren't prices falling...?

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For me it is about the same time to a large Swiss Supermarket or a large German one; in fact slightly shorter to the German one which also has a much larger (and free) car park.
So you don't live in Zurich then!! (as per your location)
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Old 11.08.2011, 14:56
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Re: Why aren't prices falling...?

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So you don't live in Zurich then!! (as per your location)
Kanton Zürich
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Old 11.08.2011, 20:59
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Re: Why aren't prices falling...?

don't live close enough to the border to make it worth while shopping there.

At least the Libor is dropping and so are future long term mortgages.
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  #60  
Old 11.08.2011, 21:42
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Re: Why aren't prices falling...?

I live 10 minutes cycle ride from the French border, and a few minutes more from the German one. As do many people in Basel I guess.

I like the fact I can shop in three countries and still be home in time for Saturday brunch. Even after 1.5 years I still find that exciting.

The food I buy (or the weekends I spend) in France and Germany get slightly cheaper each week. Prices in Switzerland stay the same. That's how I expect it to be, to be honest. Same as I don't expect the prices in the Asian store to change much with movements of the Thai Baht.
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