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  #41  
Old 11.08.2011, 17:33
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Re: Begging on the train?

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It is interesting to learn that Switzerland has cartels not only for the importation of goods but also for beggars. Being organised is key and so much part of the culture here.
Its not just here, its everywhere - probably more so outside of Switzerland.
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  #42  
Old 11.08.2011, 17:35
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Re: Begging on the train?

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I could easily make 200-300 CHF asaking for money in mexico for 3 hours. (Tried and succeeded myself )
Yeah, but your arse was sore afterwards.
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  #43  
Old 11.08.2011, 17:47
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Re: Begging on the train?

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Yeah, but your arse was sore afterwards.
ahm no... gigolo life is much easier
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  #44  
Old 11.08.2011, 17:52
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Re: Begging on the train?

"My rule for beggers is generally give the old, frail and forgotten of this world a CHF or two, especially old ladies"

Please do not do this! 99.999% of the beggars are part of a "begging-mafia" organized scheme, so you are NOT actually helping the old/frail/forgotten person you're giving money to, but some fat gypsy behind it all. In fact, people in my grandparents' village back home joke even now about how all gypsies (that used to steal from them) went to western europe to beg after the borders opened (and, as a funny coincidence, most of the ones from that village went to Switzerland!). You should see now the houses they have and cars they drive.

Another sad fact: these gypsies actually go so far as to mutilate children or helpless old people so they get more money! So if you're giving such people money you're proving them their scheme works, so they might expand it!

Also, you can watch this (most excellent) movie http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0314067/ about the phenomenon. The stuff in there, even though some might seem funny or unreal, is very real let me assure you and it's not even the worst.
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  #45  
Old 11.08.2011, 18:32
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Re: Begging on the train?

I can only laugh at these stories"Wow, I had a shock today, I saw a beggar for the first time in my life"......

It's simple: don't give them anything, unless you are in a good mood, really good mood.
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  #46  
Old 11.08.2011, 18:51
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Re: Begging on the train?

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"My rule for beggers is generally give the old, frail and forgotten of this world a CHF or two, especially old ladies"

Please do not do this! 99.999% of the beggars are part of a "begging-mafia" organized scheme, so you are NOT actually helping the old/frail/forgotten person you're giving money to, but some fat gypsy behind it all.
Hmmm what about the old lady in Bern who hangs around the underground entrance to the Bhf with her push pram full of dolls, who also visits the methadone clinic on Belpstrasse. I seriously doubt she is part of the Mafia.
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  #47  
Old 11.08.2011, 19:02
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Re: Begging on the train?

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I saw some on our trains here, between LS and GE. Same ol' shtick as those pseudo mute/deaf/blind organized beggars with some kind of laminated signs you meet on the street. There has been a push to put this under control in our area.
Me too, also on trains between Geneva and Lausanne. They go the whole mute thing - and can be very aggressive if you don't play along.

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I saw my first beggar in Switzerland this morning outside of the Hbf in Bern. I was stunned.
Come to Geneva; no shortage of them here!

My husband and I were conned though - outside the cathedral in Lausanne a few months ago, we went to go in and a Hispanic guy was holding open the door to the cathedral and a cup for money. We just assumed it was for a token donation to get inside, so we gave him a couple of CHFs. On our way out, he wasn't there but he soon spotted us and approached us, launching into his story.

I don't mind giving to people in genuine need, but not when they practice deception like that - especially outside a church; some serious karma could come back to haunt you.
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  #48  
Old 11.08.2011, 19:10
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Re: Begging on the train?

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Hmmm what about the old lady in Bern who hangs around the underground entrance to the Bhf with her push pram full of dolls, who also visits the methadone clinic on Belpstrasse. I seriously doubt she is part of the Mafia.
I think you'll find that "She" is actually a man.
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  #49  
Old 11.08.2011, 19:13
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Re: Begging on the train?

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I think you'll find that "She" is actually a man.
I suspected, but wasn't sure. Am I wrong to give this guy a CHF every now and then?
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  #50  
Old 11.08.2011, 20:08
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Re: Begging on the train?

I live by the following rules:
- I do not give anything to beggars
- I really do not give anything to beggars
- I absolutely do not give anything to beggars

Take for example "Swiss punks" or other assorted "Häsch mir en Stutz"-life artists. If they want to receive social aid they would have to go to their commune. If they want to live in the "big city", by all means go ahead, but I am not going to finance it.

Take for example the "German punks" For them Switzerland is a stop-over to make some money. If you want to see the world, by all means go ahead, but I am not going to finance it.

Take for example the assorted Non-EU / East-European Organized Begging Outfit Members. If they want to come to Switzerland to scam people of their money, I am certainly not going to finance it.

If you want to support local needy people in Zurich, there's Pfarrer Sieber (http://www.swsieber.ch/). If you want to support needy people outside of Switzerland there's Beat Richner (www.beat-richner.ch), who does great work in Cambodia.
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  #51  
Old 11.08.2011, 21:00
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Re: Begging on the train?

Ok I only give if these are old people because I feel sorry for them but everyone else can get a job...
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  #52  
Old 11.08.2011, 21:26
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Re: Begging on the train?

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I think you'll find that "She" is actually a man.
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Hmmm what about the old lady in Bern who hangs around the underground entrance to the Bhf with her push pram full of dolls, who also visits the methadone clinic on Belpstrasse. I seriously doubt she is part of the Mafia.
Guess he's pretty known. I live near Eigerplatz and see him all the time there.
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  #53  
Old 11.08.2011, 21:32
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Re: Begging on the train?

I used to live close to the Romanian camp in Lausanne. It was quite a sight to see all of them in the bus in the morning, chatting noisily, all in perfect health, ready to go to 'work'.

And then, in Town, walking with tremendous difficulties on shaky legs, with hunched backs and suffering faces...

Wonderful comedians!
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  #54  
Old 11.08.2011, 21:42
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Re: Begging on the train?

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I used to live close to the Romanian camp in Lausanne. It was quite a sight to see all of them in the bus in the morning, chatting noisily, all in perfect health, ready to go to 'work'.

And then, in Town, walking with tremendous difficulties on shaky legs, with hunched backs and suffering faces...

Wonderful comedians!
But they didn't loot, did they?
So tell us more about other camps, I hold my breath..
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  #55  
Old 11.08.2011, 21:45
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Re: Begging on the train?

Technical note: while the gypsies have Romanian citizenship, it might be a bit improper to call them Romanians, as the "real" Romanians are generally decent, hard working people. In fact, the Roma (politically correct term for gypsies) are regarded in Romania as the shame of the country and the primary reason why the country and its people have such a bad name abroad. There was even some discussion to change Roma to Gypsy, so the distinction is clear, but nothing came out of it yet.
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Old 11.08.2011, 22:09
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Re: Begging on the train?

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Technical note: while the gypsies have Romanian citizenship, it might be a bit improper to call them Romanians, as the "real" Romanians are generally decent, hard working people. In fact, the Roma (politically correct term for gypsies) are regarded in Romania as the shame of the country and the primary reason why the country and its people have such a bad name abroad. There was even some discussion to change Roma to Gypsy, so the distinction is clear, but nothing came out of it yet.
They are Romanian citizens, regardless their ethnicity. Anyhow, considering what happens in London as we speak, and in so many other edges of the world, just leave Romanian gypsies in peace.. Let's just not be hypocrits and maybe, we could all use a mirror???

And what do they have to do with this thread?

They are not the only gypsies in Europe, neither are they the only persons to beg. C'mon.....is this thread a troll ?
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  #57  
Old 11.08.2011, 22:47
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Re: Begging on the train?

As far as Lausanne is concerned (the town I know best), begging was very marginal before the gypsies arrived.

They sort of 'professionalised' the begging, with their aggressive methods and widespread presence. They virtually are the only begging population in town, you can't find a place downtown where they aren't.
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Old 11.08.2011, 22:54
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Re: Begging on the train?

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As far as Lausanne is concerned (the town I know best), begging was very marginal before the gypsies arrived.

They sort of 'professionalised' the begging, with their aggressive methods and widespread presence. They virtually are the only begging population in town, you can't find a place downtown where they aren't.
How do you know they are 'Romanian Gypsies'. Have you spoken to them? Or maybe they walk around with a label on.

I don' think it's very nice to make this kind of blanket statement.
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  #59  
Old 11.08.2011, 22:55
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Re: Begging on the train?

LiB calles them "ticket inspectors".
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Old 11.08.2011, 22:56
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Re: Begging on the train?

Some years ago, I was spending big part of the summer in Geneva. TSR made it very clear after investigating the matter in Temps présent: it's an organised business.
So I went out "armed". There are free condoms in saunas, I took ten pieces or so. When a beggar came to me, I gave him/her a condom and said with a big smile something close to "enjoy life!". Not one stayed and annoyed me.
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