I am not happy :( - Page 6

#**101** 14.08.2011, 19:01

Totally different planet- or Switzerland! Get out of Geneva- Geneva is not really Switzerland and ticks in a totally different way, always has. Try Lausanne and you might feel very different. Don't get stuck in this 'Switzerland is bad, wrong and the cause of how I feel'. All my friends here are open-minded, friendly, warm, fun, well-traveled- and really do not represent this cold, materialistic description some of you give of the Swiss.

#**102** 14.08.2011, 19:05

	Quote:	miniMia
	I'd love to know how many Swiss really do live all over the world? I know we Portuguese are all over the world... But Swiss? I don't see it. But maybe I"m not looking in the right place.

Organisation des suisses de l'étranger (OSE)

Revue suisse

Hospitalité suisse à l'étranger

ODM / SwissemigrationContact | Bases légales

Most of my family who've emigrated do not show in the statistics as they have taken on the nationality of where they've settled after a few years. Thei descendants are of course no longer Swiss although do have claims to take on Swiss nationality. That generation of uncles and aunts are no longer with us. One uncle died aged 103 after being a cow-boy in New Mexico all his adult life.

Sam, · #**103** 14.08.2011, 19:07

Agreed with Odile.

Geneva is not really Switzerland. I've been there for once or twice and I always feel unsecured. Loads of drug-addicts, people bullying and fooling around in a group. Hell no! it's way different compare to Zurich or some other places where I've been so far.

glinaa · #**104** 14.08.2011, 19:39

	Quote:	Karl
	Whoaa, why are you being so venomous? You must be having a bad day (or life).

Maybe you should have a second look at what you wrote yourself.

	Quote:	Karl
	And you want to move to an poor, over-populated country which is currently destabilized and under military rule, where salaries are a small fraction of what you can earn here, that is if you can find a job (unemployment in Egypt is over 10 percent vs. about 3 percent here).

Based on what you wrote, everybody should just move out of Egypt to somewhere less-populated, with higher salaries, lower unemployment and best if ruled by bankers.

But in fact, Egyptians are a proud nation, with one of the oldest history of civilisation known to mankind. I just cannot grasp how do you flatten all this down to salary and uneployment level. Is this what defines happiness for you?

And ...

	Quote:	Karl
	you live in a beautiful area of a stunningly beautiful country

I find the Red Sea, the Nile or the vast deserts as beautiful as anywhere in Switzerland. What do you hold against them?

miniMia · #**105** 14.08.2011, 19:42

	Quote:
	There are 10000s all over the world. ....

Thanks for that. I still don't think it's really "that many".

US: 75k Swiss vs 1.4m Portuguese
Brazil: 14k Swiss vs 1m Portuguese
France: 179k Swiss vs 800k Portuguese

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/swiss_ne...l?cid=29521554

#**106** 14.08.2011, 19:51

Yep, but Switzerland has a very low population - we need percentages perhaps.

Now why do you thing Portuguese left Portugals in droves? Like the Spanish and Italians before them?

Same reasons my Swiss aunts and uncles, and so many of their friends, left in the 30s?

Push and pull factors are often the same.
Most of the Swiss who left Switzerland in the 60s and 70s did so for very different reasons.

Sam, · #**107** 14.08.2011, 20:02

I think this thread is going out of track

Karl · #**108** 14.08.2011, 20:05

	Quote:	glinaa
	Maybe you should have a second look at what you wrote yourself. Based on what you wrote, everybody should just move out of Egypt to somewhere less-populated, with higher salaries, lower unemployment and best if ruled by bankers. But in fact, Egyptians are a proud nation, with one of the oldest history of civilisation known to mankind. I just cannot grasp how do you flatten all this down to salary and uneployment level. Is this what defines happiness for you? And ... I find the Red Sea, the Nile or the vast deserts as beautiful as anywhere in Switzerland. What do you hold against them?

I have been to Egypt. And not just to the tourist places. Took buses and 2nd class train. I know of what I speak. Do you?

#**109** 14.08.2011, 20:07

	Quote:
	Totally different planet- or Switzerland! Get out of Geneva- Geneva is not really Switzerland and ticks in a totally different way, always has. Try Lausanne and you might feel very different. Don't get stuck in this 'Switzerland is bad, wrong and the cause of how I feel'. All my friends here are open-minded, friendly, warm, fun, well-traveled- and really do not represent this cold, materialistic description some of you give of the Swiss.

Are you saying we aren't friends?

glinaa · #**110** 14.08.2011, 20:17

	Quote:	Karl
	I have been to Egypt. And not just to the tourist places. Took buses and 2nd class train. I know of what I speak. Do you?

Yes I do. You should have tried the third class trains while there

.

I also know how out of place your judgments are. You are Swiss, aren't you?
On my first day in Switzerland, my new work colleagues and I went to a summer chalet in Gruyere, and one of the first things one of the guys asked me was - "You don't have places this beautiful in Poland, have you?". I laughed at him and told him we have more beautiful ones. How ignorant can some people be?

(sorry for the OT)

#**111** 14.08.2011, 20:29

I have met many expats that had a strong desire to go back home (not per se Egypt but my experience is with people that went back to Iran, India, and Pakistan).
Passed the initial excitement, it did not go that well overall. Red tape and corruption being the most cited problems. Returning is also seen as a failure sometimes by locals and family.
The problem is that there are some aspects of living abroad that you take for granted and that you get used to.
The only successful examples I have seen are independently wealthy individuals that managed to go back home to live a life without having to find a job or starting a business.

#**112** 14.08.2011, 20:39

	Quote:	glinaa
	I find the Red Sea, the Nile or the vast deserts as beautiful as anywhere in Switzerland.

Agreed. I've been to Egypt (only on holiday), and not only is the country beautiful, the people are too - certainly the warmest to strangers I've ever met - even if the constant clamouring for baksheesh drove me crazy! On the other hand some things are pretty crazy about the place, such as driving at night without lights to save the battery

Still, I can understand Mowvich feeling very "foreign" here. It's something a lot of us face, but is probably easier to come to terms with for those of us who come from cultures more similar to the Swiss culture than Mowvich's. I'm sure many people from the South of England feel quite happy not knowing their neighbours here, for example.

Karl · #**113** 14.08.2011, 20:42

	Quote:	glinaa
	Yes I do. You should have tried the third class trains while there . I also know how out of place your judgments are. You are Swiss, aren't you? On my first day in Switzerland, my new work colleagues and I went to a summer chalet in Gruyere, and one of the first things one of the guys asked me was - "You don't have places this beautiful in Poland, have you?". I laughed at him and told him we have more beautiful ones. How ignorant can some people be? (sorry for the OT)

No, I am American. And I have a daughter here who I would never leave, no matter what. And yes, this place is weird, the Swiss culture seemingly impenetrable. I am also naturalized Swiss. And this country is beautiful, stable, and full of opportunities to have a good life. I simply listed a few facts about Switzerland that the world generally acknowledges as true, and you come down on me like a ton of bricks...for what reason? You are here. Chopin is my favorite pianist by the way.

glinaa · #**114** 14.08.2011, 20:53

	Quote:	Karl
	I simply listed a few facts about Switzerland that the world generally acknowledges as true, and you come down on me like a ton of bricks...for what reason? You are here. Chopin is my favorite pianist by the way.

Yes you did, but you have also listed a couple of facts about Egypt and put it in stark contrast to what Switzerland is and Egypt is not. It just doesn't seem OK to take one country for it's positives and compare it to another one for its negatives. This is what I opposed to. I'm sure there are lots of legitimate reasons to love Egypt.

miniMia · #**115** 14.08.2011, 20:56

	Quote:
	Yep, but Switzerland has a very low population - we need percentages perhaps. Now why do you thing Portuguese left Portugals in droves? Like the Spanish and Italians before them? Same reasons my Swiss aunts and uncles, and so many of their friends, left in the 30s? Push and pull factors are often the same. Most of the Swiss who left Switzerland in the 60s and 70s did so for very different reasons.

I know very well why the Portuguese left and still leave. And btw they also have low population that is why i mentioned them & not the Italians or the Spanish. Anyway, lots of them left at various point in history, yada yada..... that's not the point really. The fact it there are not so many Swiss leaving. There just aren't. Period.

	Quote:	glinaa
	How ignorant can some people be?

Sadly this is not exclusive to Swiss people.

Karl · #**116** 14.08.2011, 21:09

	Quote:	glinaa
	Yes you did, but you have also listed a couple of facts about Egypt and put it in stark contrast to what Switzerland is and Egypt is not. It just doesn't seem OK to take one country for it's positives and compare it to another one for its negatives. This is what I opposed to. I'm sure there are lots of legitimate reasons to love Egypt.

I think you would agree that the OP's unhappiness has little to do with the intrinsic aspects of Switzerland or Egypt. He simply misses his country of birth, culture, language, food, and family. It would be the same story for a Swiss living in Egypt pining away for bratwurst, Dorflifaescht and his school buddies. So l let's not make this a pissing contest about one country vs. another. I also play a pretty mean Chopin on the piano, by the way

glinaa · #**117** 14.08.2011, 21:12

	Quote:	Karl
	So l let's not make this a pissing contest about one country vs. another. I also play a pretty mean Chopin on the piano, by the way

Cool :-). Ok, enough of the off topic and sorry for derailing the thread Mowvich.

m_dalloway · #**118** 14.08.2011, 21:21

	Quote:
	Now why do you thing Portuguese left Portugals in droves? Like the Spanish and Italians before them? Same reasons my Swiss aunts and uncles, and so many of their friends, left in the 30s? Push and pull factors are often the same.

	Quote:	miniMia
	I know very well why the Portuguese left and still leave. And btw they also have low population that is why i mentioned them & not the Italians or the Spanish. Anyway, lots of them left at various point in history, yada yada..... that's not the point really. The fact it there are not so many Swiss leaving. There just aren't. Period.

Portugal, pais de navegadores, marinheiros e descobridores.

Switzerland on the other hand...

OT off.

Nil · #**119** 14.08.2011, 21:40

	Quote:	hoppy
	There aren't many 6 years old that know how to skype or are on facebook. It would take adult help, probably Mum's who given the situation may not be that supportive. On top of that- this is a touchy issue, how many Swiss kids do you know, left at the age of 6 that can maintain interest in a Middle -Eastern father? Geneva society has large pockets of anti-Arab sentiment. It would be difficult in the face of such racism for a 6 year old to support an absent Middle-Eastern father. Unless of course Mum finds an Egyptian foster-dad.

	Quote:	hoppy
	Tell the Swiss that! Alternatively Mowvich, you stick out till you get your C permit. Who knows in the meantime you might even find a nice Egyptian wife who will join you in Switzerland.

Is it just me or that both statements are just a bunch of crap?

WTF?

NSchulzi · #**120** 14.08.2011, 21:49

I'm not sure if they are crap, and hoppy may have hit on something.

I am really sorry to hear that you are not happy, Mowvich, and that you are undecided as to what to do for the best, both for yourself and your daughter. Without wishing to pry, I wonder if perhaps you don't have a steady relationship at the moment and, if so, this could be compounding your feelings of isolation and down-heartedness.