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  #121  
Old 14.08.2011, 21:59
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Re: I am not happy :(

Nowadays, unlike in the 20s and 30s- those Swiss who leave to travel do so out of curiosity or travel-lust - to see something different and open their minds and hearts, as I did in the early 70s. Not pushed by poverty.
In the early 30s, my uncle and aunts and a group of about 30 from our then small village all left with a single ticket to Le Havre, and a single ticket to New York - just not enough to keep them all. My dad and 1 sister were the youngest and stayed behind. Those did not leave, they were firmly pushed and were not given any choice. And no choice to return either- or computers or phones- letters took weeks to travel. They just had to get on with it in those days.
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  #122  
Old 14.08.2011, 22:04
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Re: I am not happy :(

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Portugal, pais de navegadores, marinheiros e descobridores.

Switzerland on the other hand...

OT off.

m_dalloway,
Switzerland was one of the poorest country in Europe. The Swiss government actively encouraged Swiss people to emigrate between 1810 and 1920 as not everybody could be fed. Even old people were conveniently asked to leave when they could not work anymore. There are close to 1 million Swiss abroad.
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  #123  
Old 14.08.2011, 22:05
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Re: I am not happy :(

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I'm not sure if they are crap, and hoppy may have hit on something.

I am really sorry to hear that you are not happy, Mowvich, and that you are undecided as to what to do for the best, both for yourself and your daughter. Without wishing to pry, I wonder if perhaps you don't have a steady relationship at the moment and, if so, this could be compounding your feelings of isolation and down-heartedness.
Ahhh..the real problem emerges.....women.
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  #124  
Old 14.08.2011, 22:15
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Re: I am not happy :(

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Ahhh..the real problem emerges.....women.
Or, possibly, the lack of ...
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  #125  
Old 14.08.2011, 22:38
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Re: I am not happy :(

Thanks everyone again for so many opinions and ideas, I see the thread went to places and dimensions that it wasn't supposed to be....i'm sure everyone had some good intentions and tried to help.....i think i should just discuss more details with my ex and see what the best decisions can be, i've got positives and negatives on both sides of the story but being so attached to my own country, specially in times like now in addition to my daughters love are the 2 main issues to be addressed....maybe i should give myself a deadline to reach such a decision and make up my mind on what should be done next....still more opinions are mostly welcome as it makes me address some issues i might not have considered.
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  #126  
Old 14.08.2011, 22:46
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Re: I am not happy :(

Hope you find a way to work all this out- stay safe and bonne chance.
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  #127  
Old 14.08.2011, 22:54
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Re: I am not happy :(

All sympathies to you. But from a pragmatic point of view in the short term: if your friends all think the same thing about Switzerland, it's no surprise that you're drowning in a pool of despair. There are loads of creative, cheerful and enthusiastic Swiss and expats (dunno about Geneva though) - make it your job to find them!! I don't want to trivialize your anguish, but as a quicker fix than leaving the country, why not try shaking up your routine? Learn to play a new instrument, or how to sail, or something that puts you in contact w/ new people. I agree that getting out of Geneva is key. Most Swiss people I know deplore it.
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  #128  
Old 14.08.2011, 22:54
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Re: I am not happy :(

A very wise man once told me that to get to the truth of a situation you have to ask "why" many times.

As and example:
1. Why was I not happy 3 years ago?
A. Because my wife had left me.
2. Why did my wife leave me?
A. I can only assume that I was acting differently than she wanted me to act.
3. Why was I acting differently than the person she had fallen for?
A. I think perhaps I was discontent with my life.
4. Why was I discontent with my life?
A. I think it was because I did not like my job or the environment that I was working in.
5. Why did I not like the environment that I was working in?
A. It had I think to do with a lack of transparency in the socioeconomic and political environment that I was in.
6. Why was I not happy with a lack of transparency?
....... etc, etc.

As an example of the above, you just need to keep on being recursive about it until you get to an answer that helps you find a solution. Generally each level of "why" will be slightly more "expensive" emotionally and intellectually to answer but when the cost gets too great, that is generally where you have to start looking hard for answers of how to solve that.

By the way, this is a useful experiment to go through with a friend asking the why who can occasionally call BS on answers that you might give that are too easy.

Best of luck.
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  #129  
Old 14.08.2011, 22:56
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Re: I am not happy :(

Jimmy Wales? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5_Whys
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  #130  
Old 14.08.2011, 22:56
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Re: I am not happy :(

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Agreed with Odile.

Geneva is not really Switzerland. I've been there for once or twice and I always feel unsecured. Loads of drug-addicts, people bullying and fooling around in a group. Hell no! it's way different compare to Zurich or some other places where I've been so far.
Funny, as I never felt that in Geneva. Sounds like you are describing a somewhat different kind of bullying than one might experience in Lausanne, Freiburg Zurich, Bern, Basel, etc...

Or is it just that there are more "obviously different" peoples in Geneva than the rest of CH? I thought that I remember reading that Geneva was a principality or City State or something like that, and they have never really forgotten that, even though they are a city in Switzerland now and have been for some time.
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  #131  
Old 14.08.2011, 22:58
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Re: I am not happy :(

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I have met many expats that had a strong desire to go back home (not per se Egypt but my experience is with people that went back to Iran, India, and Pakistan).
Passed the initial excitement, it did not go that well overall. Red tape and corruption being the most cited problems. Returning is also seen as a failure sometimes by locals and family.
The problem is that there are some aspects of living abroad that you take for granted and that you get used to.

This is an excellent point - beware the 'repat blues'!

Mowich, is there a way for you to spend some extended time back home before making your decision, or at least for leaving the door open to return to Switzerland if you later decide to?

From my own experience: I returned to the US for about 18 months after several years abroad. While I loved my time in Asia, I was very much looking forward to the move back home - and then reverse culture shock hit.

The shock is all the more potent because few of us are prepared for it. I had made the mistake of keeping an idealized picture of my US life, frozen in time, in my mind. The reality of coming home, a different person now, to a place that had moved on without me, was very tough to take. (And when the next opportunity to move abroad arose, we said yes mighty sharpish.)

Just something to think about, Mowich - I'd hate to see you close any doors, just in case.

---

I've lived a lot of places: some I absolutely loved, some I've enjoyed the challenge, some I felt rather 'meh' about, some I found quite difficult. Sometimes I've felt all of the above about one place. In my old age I am just starting to understand that the place is more of a backdrop to a happy/difficult period rather than being the driver of that happiness/difficulty.

And, in my old age I am also starting to fully understand that there is nothing more important than family; whatever you do, wherever you go, your daughter should be first consideration. That relationship is precious.

I hope that you can find a solution that allows you to find the happiness you deserve and maintain a close relationship with your daughter.

I sincerely wish you all the best.
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  #132  
Old 14.08.2011, 22:58
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Re: I am not happy :(

Thanks for this, i find it helpful....should give it a try

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A very wise man once told me that to get to the truth of a situation you have to ask "why" many times.

As and example:
1. Why was I not happy 3 years ago?
A. Because my wife had left me.
2. Why did my wife leave me?
A. I can only assume that I was acting differently than she wanted me to act.
3. Why was I acting differently than the person she had fallen for?
A. I think perhaps I was discontent with my life.
4. Why was I discontent with my life?
A. I think it was because I did not like my job or the environment that I was working in.
5. Why did I not like the environment that I was working in?
A. It had I think to do with a lack of transparency in the socioeconomic and political environment that I was in.
6. Why was I not happy with a lack of transparency?
....... etc, etc.

As an example of the above, you just need to keep on being recursive about it until you get to an answer that helps you find a solution. Generally each level of "why" will be slightly more "expensive" emotionally and intellectually to answer but when the cost gets too great, that is generally where you have to start looking hard for answers of how to solve that.

By the way, this is a useful experiment to go through with a friend asking the why who can occasionally call BS on answers that you might give that are too easy.

Best of luck.
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  #133  
Old 14.08.2011, 23:00
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Re: I am not happy :(

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Maybe you should have a second look at what you wrote yourself.

Based on what you wrote, everybody should just move out of Egypt to somewhere less-populated, with higher salaries, lower unemployment and best if ruled by bankers.

But in fact, Egyptians are a proud nation, with one of the oldest history of civilisation known to mankind. I just cannot grasp how do you flatten all this down to salary and uneployment level. Is this what defines happiness for you?

And ...

I find the Red Sea, the Nile or the vast deserts as beautiful as anywhere in Switzerland. What do you hold against them?
Karl has the messianic zeal of the converted. There is nothing intrinsically wrong or evil in that. But it does bear considering whenever one reads his posts.
Being from the US as well, I do understand where he is getting at more often than not.

It helps to know where people are coming from when you consider what they have to say.
For example, my mother converted to Catholicism and was far more dogmatic than my father was.
She's coming around, somewhat.

Still, what you said about somewhere less populated, higher salaries, banker overlords, etc., sound about like what most people think they would like.
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  #134  
Old 15.08.2011, 07:23
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Re: I am not happy :(

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How old is your daughter? How about leaving Geneva for Basel (or, I suppose, Zurich)? I don't know anyone personally who likes Geneva.
You havent met me yet

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I were in Egypt last week with my daughter which was her first time, she admitted to find it a better place to live than here, she agrees to actually live there and she doesn't even speak the language yet......which really made me think more about my whole situation.....i even tried to discuss with her mum if she would ever consider going back to Egypt but she refused the idea
Of course she liked it. It was a holiday with mummy and daddy. Will she like it though when she will have to go to school without speaking the language?

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Dude, not to be judgmental, but I only have two things to say :

1. The grass will always be greener on the other side of the fence.

2. No one ever realizes what they have until they don't have it anymore.

Good Luck.
So true. But there is also a saying. Better regret about things you have done than things you havent done


Anyway Mowvich. If you ever fancy a chat or a drink you know where i am most nights
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  #135  
Old 15.08.2011, 08:11
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Re: I am not happy :(

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Thank you guys for all the support, i think the problem is the principles of life here, it doesn't relate at all to what i'm used to or believe in wether at home or where i lived / stayed before.......it's just so much stress for no particular reason, it's so materialistic with no human interaction, .
I am Portuguese being here for 3 months and i totally agree with you but you have to be careful. People like us tend to focus on negative.

I do not like also the material side of Switzerland but i believe in individual over the groups.

If you have friends here ignore all others. I have seen crazy things like:

My girlfriend came here and half of the girls went away (the ones only after money).

The problem for is Swiss are kind of naive. If you have really money i do not want a swiss girl, maybe a brazilian, spanish, south america but a swiss? Come on..

What i am doing is to define what i want and speak freely. When i see a person that does not smile to me i say: are you sick or what?

And so i am happy. I think you need to be strong and pursue what you want.

I have found Portuguese, Italian similar to me and i am happy :d
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  #136  
Old 15.08.2011, 09:16
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Re: I am not happy :(

...my sayings, FWITW -

Children:

-are almost never as stoopid as their parents
-are almost always better adaptive than their parents
-see through their parents whether they express it or not
-from birth to seven are most absorbed with what is this "Me" and are necessarily self-centered
-from seven to fourteen are most concerned with what is this "Other" and need to challenge their environment to define themselves within it

Teenagers are most concerned with what is my sex, what is the other sex, and parents are either healthy, viable role models or mostly in the way

"Adults" from, say, 21 to 30 need to measure themselves in the world and necessarily need to explore the world

Adults from, say, 30-40, hopefully having defined themselves, start consolidating their lives and look more toward security and stability

Parents who are fractured, individually and/or in the relationship, are poor role models, so set the bones and heal the wounds because children need healthy, stable people for their own development

So Mowvich, maybe take stock and try to take the broader view for both yourself and in relationship to your daughter because nature will have its way. Whether it is by the hard tour or the gentle tour is partly up to you.

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  #137  
Old 15.08.2011, 09:25
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Re: I am not happy :(

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You havent met me yet
Haha, ditto. I gotta say, after reading some people's "facts" (hearsay) in this thread, I feel like I'm doing something wrong by living in Geneva and liking it.
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  #138  
Old 15.08.2011, 12:58
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Re: I am not happy :(

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Thanks everyone again for so many opinions and ideas, I see the thread went to places and dimensions that it wasn't supposed to be....i'm sure everyone had some good intentions and tried to help.....i think i should just discuss more details with my ex and see what the best decisions can be, i've got positives and negatives on both sides of the story but being so attached to my own country, specially in times like now in addition to my daughters love are the 2 main issues to be addressed....maybe i should give myself a deadline to reach such a decision and make up my mind on what should be done next....still more opinions are mostly welcome as it makes me address some issues i might not have considered.
I think I might know what will help you decide. Should you actually live with your child, every day, I doubt you will have the heart to prioritize your patriotic attachment over what you daughter needs. Seeing her only sometimes might have given you the distance you have now, that luxury to actually think you would be ok living far from her. You might be. For some time. And then you will realize you have left a human being you have created, far away, to fend for herself and to rely in every day life solely on her mom. Things might be ok for a while, you will rebuilt your life over there, before it hits you you left part of your heart over here and you might actually start looking back on your decision and question it the same way you are questioning your situ now.

I wonder if suggesting to your ex you need to live with your daughter for a month or so, in order to make up your mind about a couple of things, would do to your suggestion making. If you live with your 6yr old, your heart tells you what to do. It's far too easy not to see her every day and muse over how easy it would be quitting your life here.
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  #139  
Old 15.08.2011, 13:27
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Re: I am not happy :(

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Haha, ditto. I gotta say, after reading some people's "facts" (hearsay) in this thread, I feel like I'm doing something wrong by living in Geneva and liking it.
Me too!!! But people say I'm odd.
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Old 15.08.2011, 13:42
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Re: I am not happy :(

Actually I like Geneva too- but it is perhaps not the best place for newbies to feel comfortable in Switzerland. When I was a kid there were very very few ex pats here- but Geneva was the exception due to UN, Embassies, banks, etc. Also Geneva has always had a good selection of 'Olde money' - aristocratic style and can feel very snobby, even for the Swiss (like Paris in France, or Milan in Italy).
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