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  #21  
Old 30.08.2011, 00:24
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Re: It doesn't make sense to live in Zug with 400k a year or less

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So do your own maintenance, that's what I do with my Ducatis!

Of course, on a power/weight basis, factoring driver weight (which most neglect), even my 26 year old Guzzi LeMans is faster! (after a couple roll-ons up the Gotthard last year against a Maranello, he gentalmanyly admitted defeat against my 999R)

Tom


For these guys, it's probably not the speed, but the status that counts. Ducatis & Guzzis are nice, though! My Aprilia Pegaso could not keep up with you, I'm afraid.
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  #22  
Old 30.08.2011, 08:46
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Re: It doesn't make sense to live in Zug with 400k a year or less

Article is sensationalist BS.

They make some valid points about the locals being priced out. I had the same conversation with a local about 2 years ago, it just makes better headlines now the dollar is so low.

I live in Canton Zug for a lot less than that. Granted if you actually live in Zug town it could get pricey, then again I could probably afford that just about.

The point is you need no where near 500k to live in Zug town. Maybe 200k would be comfortable for a couple. Any less and the housing costs will bite (which is the real problem)

You wouldn't be living off rice and noodles either.
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Old 30.08.2011, 08:55
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Re: It doesn't make sense to live in Zug with 400k a year or less

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Article is sensationalist BS.



The point is you need no where near 500k to live in Zug town. Maybe 200k would be comfortable for a couple. Any less and the housing costs will bite (which is the real problem)
So are some of the responses here to be fair....its an American article written with their culture in mind which is a house buying culture, not renting. And the point.....which seems reasonable to me, is that tax rates are bringing in more companies and ex-pats who will find it a struggle to live there on less than that money whilst keeping their housing arrangements to the same level as they are used to back home. And I guess that is probably true?

So lets not jump on the single quote and say its nonsense and laugh at the out of touch journalist....for those of you that live in Zug now, if you were asked to relocate there today and buy a nice house of the type that most Americans have....I winder how much it would cost. Maybe he's not so far out?
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Old 30.08.2011, 09:02
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Re: It doesn't make sense to live in Zug with 400k a year or less

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So are some of the responses here to be fair....its an American article written with their culture in mind which is a house buying culture, not renting. And the point.....which seems reasonable to me, is that tax rates are bringing in more companies and ex-pats who will find it a struggle to live there on less than that money whilst keeping their housing arrangements to the same level as they are used to back home. And I guess that is probably true?

So lets not jump on the single quote and say its nonsense and laugh at the out of touch journalist....for those of you that live in Zug now, if you were asked to relocate there today and buy a nice house of the type that most Americans have....I winder how much it would cost. Maybe he's not so far out?
The point is most people in Europe can't afford the "nice" size houses that Americans have...there just isn't the space. So not a new problem.

I come from the UK that also has a history of buying rather than renting so I understand that mentality.
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Old 30.08.2011, 09:26
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Re: It doesn't make sense to live in Zug with 400k a year or less

I don't know what possessed the author to spend time writing the article when there's a massive time bomb ticking in Wall Street.

US corporate tax avoidance on a massive scale, lobby groups manipulating the government, tax breaks for large corporations paid for by the US tax payer etc etc. You only have to google tax levels paid by some of the large Corps to see what I mean.

The list is endless.

Then again no one wants to read how the US govt is bent over the knee of many of these Corporate giants, whilst the lower end of society are queuing for bread and tins of soup.

I can't see it getting any better they've got away with it and it's likely to get worse the more corrupt the system becomes. I hate to say it but I want to see the dollar broken, it's up against the ropes at the moment needs one more punch.

It's a don't look in your own backyard lets look how nasty those Swissies are making people have to enjoy a high standard of living...

All this from the country that really pushed capitalism on a massive scale, what do you expect? Shareholders demand profit, and an easy way to make profit is to move to a low corporation tax area regardless of where that is.
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Old 30.08.2011, 09:47
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Re: It doesn't make sense to live in Zug with 400k a year or less

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The point is you need no where near 500k to live in Zug town. Maybe 200k would be comfortable for a couple.
Well, I earn a lot less than 200k and still managed to support both my wife and I for a year while she was learning the language so that she too could work here. With that we lived comfortably in our modern 4.5 room apartment located close to downtown Zug. Even though we made lots of weekend trips and also had to pay for those expensive language courses, we still also managed to put some money aside. But yeah, I don't drive a Maserati though..
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Old 30.08.2011, 09:50
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Re: It doesn't make sense to live in Zug with 400k a year or less

This is why the US is in a financial crisis, because obviously everyone is making $250K+ and is therefore being taxed to death by Obama.
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Old 30.08.2011, 10:07
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Re: It doesn't make sense to live in Zug with 400k a year or less

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Well, I earn a lot less than 200k and still managed to support both my wife and I for a year while she was learning the language so that she too could work here. With that we lived comfortably in our modern 4.5 room apartment located close to downtown Zug. Even though we made lots of weekend trips and also had to pay for those expensive language courses, we still also managed to put some money aside. But yeah, I don't drive a Maserati though..

Gosh, I need to know how you managed it ? We had a similar situations with my husband while I was not working. We had to give up the trips and some other things but still manage it to pay my school as well. Tough times hihihi I do not want to remember it .. Anyway that was another kanton with way higher taxes
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  #29  
Old 30.08.2011, 10:25
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Re: It doesn't make sense to live in Zug with 400k a year or less

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I don't know what possessed the author to spend time writing the article when there's a massive time bomb ticking in Wall Street.

US corporate tax avoidance on a massive scale, lobby groups manipulating the government, tax breaks for large corporations paid for by the US tax payer etc etc. You only have to google tax levels paid by some of the large Corps to see what I mean.

The list is endless.

Then again no one wants to read how the US govt is bent over the knee of many of these Corporate giants, whilst the lower end of society are queuing for bread and tins of soup.

I can't see it getting any better they've got away with it and it's likely to get worse the more corrupt the system becomes. I hate to say it but I want to see the dollar broken, it's up against the ropes at the moment needs one more punch.

It's a don't look in your own backyard lets look how nasty those Swissies are making people have to enjoy a high standard of living...

All this from the country that really pushed capitalism on a massive scale, what do you expect? Shareholders demand profit, and an easy way to make profit is to move to a low corporation tax area regardless of where that is.
Maybe I'm a bit cranky this morning, but geez am I tired of the naive and uninformed opinions about the US that so many people seem to swallow and regurgitate any time they're even mildly displeased with something in the US.

To say that you want to see the dollar broken is to say you want the entire world economy to go barf which is a rather...dumb thing to say as well.

And as for capitalism, the US is not the only practitioner of capitalism and tax easing. If CH wasn't greedy for the money, they wouldn't offer the tax deals or pimp itself as a tax haven. Business is business, no matter what country you're from, you're in it to make money. There are no saints on either side of the Atlantic.

As for the article, it was probably a piece contrasting growth, too much of it, vs. less growth in the US economy as the demand in Zug has priced housing out of reach for folks making less than 200k. It was an interesting counterpoint to lagging growth in the EU and the US.
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  #30  
Old 30.08.2011, 10:29
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Re: It doesn't make sense to live in Zug with 400k a year or less

I make 399k and not sure what I should do.
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Old 30.08.2011, 11:05
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Re: It doesn't make sense to live in Zug with 400k a year or less

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I
US corporate tax avoidance on a massive scale, .
If what you say was true, companies would be very profitable & the stock market would be very high.

US companies often pay little tax, as they have been loosing shareholder capital year after year, think Car making, Airlines, Steel industry & now Banks. No profits mean no taxes to pay.
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Old 30.08.2011, 11:50
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Re: It doesn't make sense to live in Zug with 400k a year or less

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Maybe I'm a bit cranky this morning, but geez am I tired of the naive and uninformed opinions about the US that so many people seem to swallow and regurgitate any time they're even mildly displeased with something in the US.

To say that you want to see the dollar broken is to say you want the entire world economy to go barf which is a rather...dumb thing to say as well.

And as for capitalism, the US is not the only practitioner of capitalism and tax easing. If CH wasn't greedy for the money, they wouldn't offer the tax deals or pimp itself as a tax haven. Business is business, no matter what country you're from, you're in it to make money. There are no saints on either side of the Atlantic.

As for the article, it was probably a piece contrasting growth, too much of it, vs. less growth in the US economy as the demand in Zug has priced housing out of reach for folks making less than 200k. It was an interesting counterpoint to lagging growth in the EU and the US.
I always get a chuckle when Americans talk about how liberal and socialized Europe (broad-brushed) is, because to me, Switzerland is just as capitalistic and conservative as the US. Perhaps even worse.
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  #33  
Old 30.08.2011, 13:34
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Re: It doesn't make sense to live in Zug with 400k a year or less

And theres me thinking I know sod all

http://sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/n...4-a27f59d70de5

"We have a deficit problem. It has to be addressed," Sanders said, "but it cannot be addressed on the backs of the sick, the elderly, the poor, young people, the most vulnerable in this country. The wealthiest people and the largest corporations in this country have got to contribute. We've got to talk about shared sacrifice."
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Old 30.08.2011, 14:08
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Re: It doesn't make sense to live in Zug with 400k a year or less

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I always get a chuckle when Americans talk about how liberal and socialized Europe (broad-brushed) is, because to me, Switzerland is just as capitalistic and conservative as the US. Perhaps even worse.
Surprised you havent figured out yet that Switzerland is not part of Europe.

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And theres me thinking I know sod all

http://sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/n...4-a27f59d70de5

"We have a deficit problem. It has to be addressed," Sanders said, "but it cannot be addressed on the backs of the sick, the elderly, the poor, young people, the most vulnerable in this country. The wealthiest people and the largest corporations in this country have got to contribute. We've got to talk about shared sacrifice."
I would suggest that you first worry about your own country's finances before spouting off on the US' problems after having read some opinion pieces in the british news. It's especially worrying since you write like you're some authority figure when you cannot even grasp the tone of the news article in question here - it was not a hit piece on Zug or Switzerland. Instead I would say it was quite flattering of Zug, which makes sense considering that the WSJ is a conservative, pro-business newspaper that consistently advocates for lesser regulation and tax.
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Old 30.08.2011, 14:09
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Re: It doesn't make sense to live in Zug with 400k a year or less

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Surprised you havent figured out yet that Switzerland is not part of Europe.
Are you talking about Swaziland?
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Old 30.08.2011, 14:45
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Re: It doesn't make sense to live in Zug with 400k a year or less

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Surprised you havent figured out yet that Switzerland is not part of Europe.
Did I get thrown into a alternate universe where Scrat did more damage than expected, cutting Pangea in even smaller pieces?
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  #37  
Old 30.08.2011, 14:49
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Re: It doesn't make sense to live in Zug with 400k a year or less

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I always get a chuckle when Americans talk about how liberal and socialized Europe (broad-brushed) is, because to me, Switzerland is just as capitalistic and conservative as the US. Perhaps even worse.
Conservatism is only relative. The Swiss conservatism is a good mix
of pro-business and social concerns. Look at how low the unemployment
rate is and how well the people are doing.

In the US, conservatisim is associated with religion, low taxes, and not touching the military industrial machine no matter how large the
national debt is.
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Old 30.08.2011, 15:05
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Re: It doesn't make sense to live in Zug with 400k a year or less

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Conservatism is only relative. The Swiss conservatism is a good mix
of pro-business and social concerns. Look at how low the unemployment
rate is and how well the people are doing.

In the US, conservatisim is associated with religion, low taxes, and not touching the military industrial machine no matter how large the
national debt is.
they also both want to kick out immigrants
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Old 30.08.2011, 15:06
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Re: It doesn't make sense to live in Zug with 400k a year or less

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Conservatism is only relative. The Swiss conservatism is a good mix of pro-business and social concerns. Look at how low the unemployment rate is and how well the people are doing.

In the US, conservatisim is associated with religion, low taxes, and not touching the military industrial machine no matter how large the
national debt is.
Well, there is a mix of pro-business and social concerns in the US, it's just on a much more massive scale as compared to one wee little country that has the population of, say, the entire Boston metro, maybe a little larger. The EU states have varying degrees of looming crises coming up soon with regard to the problem of aging populations and pensions, medical costs and unemployment.

The EU has no pillar from which to gloat over the US and how it has failed its people.

That being said, the major part of the US expenditures totally eclipse military spending (though I will agree it's egregious in its own right) and that would be Social security entitlements and medicare/medicaid. In every city and town throughout the US, civil pensions are driving deficits of massive proportions. I'm not an economist nor am I tax averse, but there is a major problem in the US that the Fed mandates something, but leaves it to the state to implement at its own cost, e.g. special ed sucks down millions for kids who have a federal right to an education that suits their needs, which is great, but when pinched districts have to cut back, the mainstream kids get their programs cut which makes no sense at all.

I don't know that taxing the corps more will solve anything, but closing loopholes like tax havens in CH might help. Of course, that would put a major dent in CH's prosperity.

I don't know that the US needs to tax more, but it certainly does need to get its priorities straight.
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Old 30.08.2011, 15:08
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Re: It doesn't make sense to live in Zug with 400k a year or less

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I would suggest that you first worry about your own country's finances before spouting off on the US' problems after having read some opinion pieces in the british news. It's especially worrying since you write like you're some authority figure when you cannot even grasp the tone of the news article in question here - it was not a hit piece on Zug or Switzerland. Instead I would say it was quite flattering of Zug, which makes sense considering that the WSJ is a conservative, pro-business newspaper that consistently advocates for lesser regulation and tax.
Hey I'm not one to discriminate the Daily Mail (UK) does a fantastic piece of "lets not look under the carpet" too.

Just to balance the comments up a bit. I loathe these equally.

Sort of annoyed at the Swiss bashing by english speaking newspapers at the moment for following the very models that these newspapers advocate in their own countries. Some would call it envy.
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