Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Daily life  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #101  
Old 09.12.2019, 13:37
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Nazi memorabilia sold in a local VD store

I saw Prince Harry in this shop, about 12 years ago i think
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #102  
Old 09.12.2019, 16:09
Treverus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Work in ZH, live in SZ
Posts: 12,767
Groaned at 366 Times in 305 Posts
Thanked 24,665 Times in 8,914 Posts
Treverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Nazi memorabilia sold in a local VD store

Quote:
View Post
The Bundeswehr has its own very special history when it comes to PR blunders and shooting themselves in the foot.

Like wasn't there a time they searched a barracks for Nazi memorabilia and seized a portrait of what they assumed to be a Nazi but which turned out to be Helmut Schmidt.

I personally dont see this case as a blunder at all - the outrage was clearly on purpose and stirred by certain politicians and media outlets. Simply put: There were some Neonazi cases in the army including a case where they found SS memorabilia in an army barrack. The minister gave the order to search all barracks and remove any sort of Nazi symbols or memorabilia. This is the picture in question and I would have removed it as well. The fact that this young Nazi-Luftwaffe officer later on became a democratic politician really does not matter in the context... because the photo was hanging there without any description and the average 18-20yr old recruit will hardly even know who Schmidt was, they only see a Nazi soldier. The result was btw to hang it up again with an explanation. Which is important for this topic: I am totally against banning symbols or anything "in general". Information should be free and be put into context. You can ban it in specific contexts as in "you are allowed to display nazi flags in a museum but you are not allowed to waive them at your skinhead concert"...


Simply put: there have been too many cases of soldiers getting into trouble for neonazi "stuff" - the military has a bit of an issue. I guess the army attracts young men who generally like the idea of clear leadership, so its not too surprising that a lot of them are rather right leaning. Thats in principle ok. But when the alleged best of the best commando units decide to decorate their vehicles with palm trees - the symbol of the Nazi German Afrika Corps - well, I think they need some additional history lessons in their education.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Treverus for this useful post:
  #103  
Old 09.12.2019, 18:14
slammer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Lummerland
Posts: 5,661
Groaned at 235 Times in 156 Posts
Thanked 10,535 Times in 4,123 Posts
slammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Nazi memorabilia sold in a local VD store

Quote:
View Post
I personally dont see this case as a blunder at all - the outrage was clearly on purpose and stirred by certain politicians and media outlets. Simply put: There were some Neonazi cases in the army including a case where they found SS memorabilia in an army barrack. The minister gave the order to search all barracks and remove any sort of Nazi symbols or memorabilia. This is the picture in question and I would have removed it as well. The fact that this young Nazi-Luftwaffe officer later on became a democratic politician really does not matter in the context... because the photo was hanging there without any description and the average 18-20yr old recruit will hardly even know who Schmidt was, they only see a Nazi soldier. The result was btw to hang it up again with an explanation. Which is important for this topic: I am totally against banning symbols or anything "in general". Information should be free and be put into context. You can ban it in specific contexts as in "you are allowed to display nazi flags in a museum but you are not allowed to waive them at your skinhead concert"...


Simply put: there have been too many cases of soldiers getting into trouble for neonazi "stuff" - the military has a bit of an issue. I guess the army attracts young men who generally like the idea of clear leadership, so its not too surprising that a lot of them are rather right leaning. Thats in principle ok. But when the alleged best of the best commando units decide to decorate their vehicles with palm trees - the symbol of the Nazi German Afrika Corps - well, I think they need some additional history lessons in their education.
I have a slightly different humble opinion. Unlike other armies the Bundeswehr lacks a meaningful sense of tradition and ever since 1945 the German military is seen as a necessary evil to be only tolerated but not hero worshipped like the thank-you-for-your-service lip service fawning of a disinterested public.
So where do you turn for a bit of tradition? The Wehrmacht and the army of the Kaiserreich and indeed the Prussian army had heroes and leaders unlike the Bundeswehr whose "hero`s" were recycled Wehrmacht soldiers at least in the early days.
Reply With Quote
  #104  
Old 09.12.2019, 18:18
cannut's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: canada
Posts: 6,916
Groaned at 182 Times in 142 Posts
Thanked 6,194 Times in 3,407 Posts
cannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Nazi memorabilia sold in a local VD store

Quote:
View Post
Well...I know. It's a tough one. I lived that era, was trained in weapons and civic militia training, we went to Russian Army camps so was exposed to those now "colectibles" and trained on them, I speak the language, and the culture is close to mine..we were their political peons..I dislike the symbols as much as the nazi, part of me is nostalgic, though, just because it is part of my personal history. I kinda don't see it as a threat, it feels so gone, since we beat it and I was part of the revolution. Now, with the neonazies, I feel it is not so gone and it could be a threat.
Did they told you about this https://www.cia.gov/library/center-f...9-00/art6.html Or stalins other war crime ?
Reply With Quote
  #105  
Old 09.12.2019, 18:19
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,361
Groaned at 337 Times in 273 Posts
Thanked 26,263 Times in 11,000 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Nazi memorabilia sold in a local VD store

Quote:
View Post
I have a slightly different humble opinion. Unlike other armies the Bundeswehr lacks a meaningful sense of tradition and ever since 1945 the German military is seen as a necessary evil to be only tolerated but not hero worshipped like the thank-you-for-your-service lip service fawning of a disinterested public.
So where do you turn for a bit of tradition? The Wehrmacht and the army of the Kaiserreich and indeed the Prussian army had heroes and leaders unlike the Bundeswehr whose "hero`s" were recycled Wehrmacht soldiers at least in the early days.
This is indeed a problem that the Bundeswehr is aware of and some barracks etc have been renamed after more recent heroes. But most of them don't really cut the ice and you'd probably have to check Wikipedia to find who they even are. And even after reading about them you are left with a "Duh!" feeling.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #106  
Old 09.12.2019, 18:39
cannut's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: canada
Posts: 6,916
Groaned at 182 Times in 142 Posts
Thanked 6,194 Times in 3,407 Posts
cannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Nazi memorabilia sold in a local VD store

Quote:
View Post
This is indeed a problem that the Bundeswehr is aware of and some barracks etc have been renamed after more recent heroes. But most of them don't really cut the ice and you'd probably have to check Wikipedia to find who they even are. And even after reading about them you are left with a "Duh!" feeling.

Did you find this hero on Wikipedia ? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_...her_(Navy_SEAL)


the world has there share of hypocrites
Reply With Quote
  #107  
Old 09.12.2019, 18:48
Treverus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Work in ZH, live in SZ
Posts: 12,767
Groaned at 366 Times in 305 Posts
Thanked 24,665 Times in 8,914 Posts
Treverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Nazi memorabilia sold in a local VD store

Quote:
View Post
So where do you turn for a bit of tradition?
My hometown is over 2000 years old and we had wars going on all the time. You dont really need to turn to the one decade with the Nazis.

As some of our past enemies are our allies today might it be a bit tricky to have the next Nato training at the Erwin Rommel barracks... no matter how smart he was. Where do we draw the line? I think a von Richthofen airfield might still piss off the French and English, so probably before WW1... with the exception of the names the Nazis made unusable or do you think the navy should name ships after Prussians like Bismarck or Scharnhorst?
Reply With Quote
  #108  
Old 09.12.2019, 18:55
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Nazi memorabilia sold in a local VD store

Quote:
View Post
My hometown is over 2000 years old and we had wars going on all the time. You dont really need to turn to the one decade with the Nazis.

As some of our past enemies are our allies today might it be a bit tricky to have the next Nato training at the Erwin Rommel barracks... no matter how smart he was. Where do we draw the line? I think a von Richthofen airfield might still piss off the French and English, so probably before WW1... with the exception of the names the Nazis made unusable or do you think the navy should name ships after Prussians like Bismarck or Scharnhorst?
My Grandad spent the best years of his youth firing shells in Rommel's direction.

He had nothing but good to say about him.

There was a certain respect for an honourable soldier, no matter how ridiculous his boss's moustache.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #109  
Old 09.12.2019, 18:56
slammer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Lummerland
Posts: 5,661
Groaned at 235 Times in 156 Posts
Thanked 10,535 Times in 4,123 Posts
slammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Nazi memorabilia sold in a local VD store

Quote:
View Post
My hometown is over 2000 years old and we had wars going on all the time. You dont really need to turn to the one decade with the Nazis.

As some of our past enemies are our allies today might it be a bit tricky to have the next Nato training at the Erwin Rommel barracks... no matter how smart he was. Where do we draw the line? I think a von Richthofen airfield might still piss off the French and English, so probably before WW1... with the exception of the names the Nazis made unusable or do you think the navy should name ships after Prussians like Bismarck or Scharnhorst?
They had. Lütjens, Rommel and Mölders, and a lot of the smaller ships had names from the ships of the SMS period which were named after towns and citys.
I think a good litmus test would be the reinstatement of the iron cross which has been around since 1812.

By the way 2000 years.. We have Trier, Regensburg, god´s own belly button Augsburg, Köln, Kempten...? If so we could have a Germanic warrior, Arminius is up for grabs I hear.
Reply With Quote
  #110  
Old 09.12.2019, 18:59
cannut's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: canada
Posts: 6,916
Groaned at 182 Times in 142 Posts
Thanked 6,194 Times in 3,407 Posts
cannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Nazi memorabilia sold in a local VD store

Quote:
My Grandad spent the best years of his youth firing shells in Rommel's direction.

He had nothing but good to say about him.

There was a certain respect for an honourable soldier, no matter how ridiculous his boss's moustache.
Did he know my father in law ?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank cannut for this useful post:
  #111  
Old 09.12.2019, 19:01
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,361
Groaned at 337 Times in 273 Posts
Thanked 26,263 Times in 11,000 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Nazi memorabilia sold in a local VD store

Quote:
View Post

As some of our past enemies are our allies today might it be a bit tricky to have the next Nato training at the Erwin Rommel barracks... no matter how smart he was. Where do we draw the line? I think a von Richthofen airfield might still piss off the French and English, so probably before WW1... with the exception of the names the Nazis made unusable or do you think the navy should name ships after Prussians like Bismarck or Scharnhorst?
Most other countries don't have a problem honouring generals who kicked arse back in the day, even if the arses that got kicked have since become good friends. Nobody will think badly of Germany if they do the same. And the further back in history you go, the less reason there is to feel offended.

Many present day British naval vessels for example re-use names of ships that were at the battle of Trafalgar or that were used in the 100 year war. In fact re-using names of ships is an old naval tradition. Are the French offended? Well, maybe. But they do the same.
Reply With Quote
  #112  
Old 09.12.2019, 19:03
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Nazi memorabilia sold in a local VD store

Quote:
View Post
Did he know my father in law ?
No idea. Unfortunately, we're about forty years too late to ask him.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #113  
Old 09.12.2019, 19:04
Treverus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Work in ZH, live in SZ
Posts: 12,767
Groaned at 366 Times in 305 Posts
Thanked 24,665 Times in 8,914 Posts
Treverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Nazi memorabilia sold in a local VD store

The German army is using the iron cross as their logo... as well as their insignia on planes and vehicles. Its literally everywhere they can put a logo on.



So you only accept it if it comes as a 19th century tie ornament? You are seriously retro...
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Treverus for this useful post:
  #114  
Old 09.12.2019, 19:09
Treverus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Work in ZH, live in SZ
Posts: 12,767
Groaned at 366 Times in 305 Posts
Thanked 24,665 Times in 8,914 Posts
Treverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Nazi memorabilia sold in a local VD store

Quote:
My Grandad spent the best years of his youth firing shells in Rommel's direction.

He had nothing but good to say about him.

There was a certain respect for an honourable soldier, no matter how ridiculous his boss's moustache.

I had family members on the opposite side in North Africa. They were in British captivity and said the same... bizarrely seems Africa the most "honorable" part of the war...



Quote:
View Post
Most other countries don't have a problem honouring generals who kicked arse back in the day, even if the arses that got kicked have since become good friends. Nobody will think badly of Germany if they do the same.

I suggest you have a look into how the rest of Asia thinks about Japan commemorating their military leaders from back then. And I dont think too many Eastern Europeans really love the Russian military parades commemorating how they "liberated" countries who never asked to be liberated by them...
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Treverus for this useful post:
  #115  
Old 09.12.2019, 19:12
MusicChick's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 17,487
Groaned at 414 Times in 275 Posts
Thanked 20,435 Times in 10,578 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Nazi memorabilia sold in a local VD store

Yes, "liberation" gets different definition. Oh wait, they were "protecting" us. Just like the EU pose.

And the Final Solution to the Jew Question was also presented as progress.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank MusicChick for this useful post:
  #116  
Old 09.12.2019, 19:17
slammer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Lummerland
Posts: 5,661
Groaned at 235 Times in 156 Posts
Thanked 10,535 Times in 4,123 Posts
slammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Nazi memorabilia sold in a local VD store

Quote:
View Post
The German army is using the iron cross as their logo... as well as their insignia on planes and vehicles. Its literally everywhere they can put a logo on.



So you only accept it if it comes as a 19th century tie ornament? You are seriously retro...
Nit picking here a tad but that is actually an adaptation of the Balkenkreuz first used at the end of WW1 right into the Weimarer Repubik, it´s called a patte Kreuz and is a symbol dating back to the crusades and used by the teutonic knights.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank slammer for this useful post:
  #117  
Old 09.12.2019, 19:30
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Nazi memorabilia sold in a local VD store

Quote:
View Post
Many present day British naval vessels for example re-use names of ships that were at the battle of Trafalgar or that were used in the 100 year war. In fact re-using names of ships is an old naval tradition. Are the French offended? Well, maybe. But they do the same.



At least the British have plenty of choice......
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #118  
Old 09.12.2019, 19:52
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,361
Groaned at 337 Times in 273 Posts
Thanked 26,263 Times in 11,000 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Nazi memorabilia sold in a local VD store

Quote:
View Post
And I dont think too many Eastern Europeans really love the Russian military parades commemorating how they "liberated" countries who never asked to be liberated by them...
Maybe the statues are gone, but still plenty of street names etc with Soviet connections in E Germany for example.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #119  
Old 09.12.2019, 19:55
MusicChick's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 17,487
Groaned at 414 Times in 275 Posts
Thanked 20,435 Times in 10,578 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Nazi memorabilia sold in a local VD store

Quote:
View Post
Maybe the statues are gone, but still plenty of street names etc with Soviet connections in E Germany for example.
Isn't East Germany a cesspool of the extreme right? Or interpreted as such..
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank MusicChick for this useful post:
  #120  
Old 09.12.2019, 19:59
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,361
Groaned at 337 Times in 273 Posts
Thanked 26,263 Times in 11,000 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Nazi memorabilia sold in a local VD store

Quote:
View Post
I suggest you have a look into how the rest of Asia thinks about Japan commemorating their military leaders from back then. And I dont think too many Eastern Europeans really love the Russian military parades commemorating how they "liberated" countries who never asked to be liberated by them...
Maybe it gives populist politicians something to cultivate grievances over. But the thing is, they get on nevertheless and when a NATO or SEATO or whatever conference takes places, nobody asks for that portrait to be taken off the wall.

And anyway, WW2 and Cold War is a bit, uh, special. But as for the rest of history, I don't think most people care.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
coin collection, coin store, nazi army uniform, nazi coins, nazi medals, nazi memorabilia, nazi symbols, nazi weapons




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Nazi-looted painting found in Swiss museum The Local Swiss politics/news 13 12.10.2011 10:33
EFer stuck in Russia; Mother in ZH+VD; a Russian speaker ZH/VD to meet up for 1 day? Zayana Other/general 3 27.09.2011 18:59
Sending kids to local schools and speaking the local language Mobeen Family matters/health 8 31.01.2010 22:20
Nazi Gold [Digging for it in Germany] Swiss Cheddar Daily life 13 01.03.2008 07:38


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 10:36.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0