Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Daily life  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07.12.2011, 03:53
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Lausanne
Posts: 2
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
ilovetoLOL has no particular reputation at present
What happens if you don't pay for your fine in Switzerland?

Hey guys,

Last September (2010) I stayed in an inn for two weeks when I first arrived in Lausanne. The owner of the inn went to visit her family during my stay and someone else was looking after the inn for her.

When the owner came back, she saw me using rice cooker in the room and went MAD... however, the person that was in charge while she was away saw me using rice cooker before and never told me not to.

Before I checked out, the owner gave me an invoice with a total of 700CHF to reimburse for the fixation fees of the carpet, wallpaper and water basin. When i questioned about the invoice, she said it was my rice cooker that caused the damages... and when I asked her for the proof and original invoices of the fixations, she didn't give me anything.

However, she has been sending letters to me asking me for the reimbursement. And I have always asked her for the proof and original invoices but she never gets back to me.

So, what do you guys suggest that I should do next? Will she contact the police? If she does, will the police make me to pay it even if she has no proof at all???

Please help me.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07.12.2011, 04:01
jrspet's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Quaint Wädenswil, Zürich, CH
Posts: 8,149
Groaned at 27 Times in 20 Posts
Thanked 7,036 Times in 3,912 Posts
jrspet has a reputation beyond reputejrspet has a reputation beyond reputejrspet has a reputation beyond reputejrspet has a reputation beyond reputejrspet has a reputation beyond reputejrspet has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What happens if you don't pay for your fine in Switzerland?

She has to discharge the burden of proof ie by furnishing detailed invoices ( duly dated and signed ). She might take you to the small claims court ( a big risk for her considering the details you have posted so far), but she still has the onus to prove that you caused the purported damage.

Personally, I would not settle it and would dismiss it as an attempt to gain more money in bad faith. No where yet in CH have I come across rules that forbid using a household appliance such as a rice cooker. Were those rules in writing and made known prior to or upon staying ?

And by the way, welcome to the forum.
__________________
404 – punoɟ ʇou ɹoʇɐɹǝpoɯ
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank jrspet for this useful post:
  #3  
Old 07.12.2011, 04:15
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Lausanne
Posts: 2
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
ilovetoLOL has no particular reputation at present
Re: What happens if you don't pay for your fine in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post
She has to discharge the burden of proof ie by furnishing detailed invoices ( duly dated and signed ). She might take you to the small claims court ( a big risk for her considering the details you have posted so far), but she still has the onus to prove that you caused the purported damage.

Personally, I would not settle it and would dismiss it as an attempt to gain more money in bad faith. No where yet in CH have I come across rules that forbid using a household appliance such as a rice cooker. Were those rules in writing and made known prior to or upon staying ?

And by the way, welcome to the forum.
Thank you very much

There wasn't any indications suggesting that no rice cookers are allowed... otherwise, I would not be using it in the first place...

I also want to just dismiss it because it doesn't make sense for me to pay for something that I didn't do. And how on earth could a rice cooker be so powerful to cause damages to the carpet, wallpaper and a water basin?!!!

But on the other side, I want to have a proper solution to this issue because it is annoying to have the owner chasing after me. But whenever I reply asking for proof, she disappears for a while then start sending me the same invoice over and over again...
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07.12.2011, 08:15
Corbets's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: DK - previously Zug
Posts: 3,328
Groaned at 169 Times in 123 Posts
Thanked 6,699 Times in 2,236 Posts
Corbets has a reputation beyond reputeCorbets has a reputation beyond reputeCorbets has a reputation beyond reputeCorbets has a reputation beyond reputeCorbets has a reputation beyond reputeCorbets has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What happens if you don't pay for your fine in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post
Thank you very much

There wasn't any indications suggesting that no rice cookers are allowed... otherwise, I would not be using it in the first place...

I also want to just dismiss it because it doesn't make sense for me to pay for something that I didn't do. And how on earth could a rice cooker be so powerful to cause damages to the carpet, wallpaper and a water basin?!!!

But on the other side, I want to have a proper solution to this issue because it is annoying to have the owner chasing after me. But whenever I reply asking for proof, she disappears for a while then start sending me the same invoice over and over again...
Like jrspet said, never pay any repair costs in Switzerland without receiving a copy of the invoice for the actual repairs. Additionally, as you've done, I would ask her to explain how your usage of the rice cooker caused the damages. If your French isn't sufficient, be sure to have someone translate for you.

Finally, I would be sure to send your responses via registered mail and keep both copies of the responses and the receipts you get from the post office. Make her sign that she's received your query. That way, she can't claim that you were simply ignoring her letters.
__________________
I'm likely typing from an iPad. Please disregard odd word usage.
Reply With Quote
The following 7 users would like to thank Corbets for this useful post:
  #5  
Old 07.12.2011, 13:39
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: north
Posts: 6,141
Groaned at 219 Times in 139 Posts
Thanked 5,100 Times in 2,636 Posts
rob1 has a reputation beyond reputerob1 has a reputation beyond reputerob1 has a reputation beyond reputerob1 has a reputation beyond reputerob1 has a reputation beyond reputerob1 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What happens if you don't pay for your fine in Switzerland?

I it was me I would send a nicely worded but firm "put up or shut up" letter.

something along the lines of provide full details and reciepts and details who has performed the work, photographic independant date stamped photos of the damage and take me to court within the next 14 days or the matter is closed.

as it was sept 2010 she is trying it on, in the vain hope you will cave in and send the money.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank rob1 for this useful post:
  #6  
Old 07.12.2011, 14:11
Verbier's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Lully VD
Posts: 4,122
Groaned at 16 Times in 16 Posts
Thanked 4,208 Times in 2,170 Posts
Verbier has a reputation beyond reputeVerbier has a reputation beyond reputeVerbier has a reputation beyond reputeVerbier has a reputation beyond reputeVerbier has a reputation beyond reputeVerbier has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What happens if you don't pay for your fine in Switzerland?

I will use this situation as a reminder that EVERYONE needs to have legal aid insurance for exactly cases like this. A lawyer's letter telling her to drop dead would have solved this in the very first instance. Now, this looks like it could drag on and on.

You can do a search on EF for the legal insurance thread for a number of options but the one I use and recommend (has saved me big $$$) is Assista. It is the insurance offered by the TCS.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07.12.2011, 14:13
Kamarate's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Neuchatel
Posts: 1,914
Groaned at 57 Times in 38 Posts
Thanked 1,619 Times in 685 Posts
Kamarate has a reputation beyond reputeKamarate has a reputation beyond reputeKamarate has a reputation beyond reputeKamarate has a reputation beyond reputeKamarate has a reputation beyond reputeKamarate has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What happens if you don't pay for your fine in Switzerland?

Personally I would just send one final letter stating that you have already requested proof and will not be replying to any more demands for reimbursement until you receive it.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Kamarate for this useful post:
  #8  
Old 07.12.2011, 15:43
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Vaud
Posts: 2,899
Groaned at 97 Times in 46 Posts
Thanked 1,932 Times in 921 Posts
Anthony1406 has a reputation beyond reputeAnthony1406 has a reputation beyond reputeAnthony1406 has a reputation beyond reputeAnthony1406 has a reputation beyond reputeAnthony1406 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What happens if you don't pay for your fine in Switzerland?

Not that hard to throw the letter in the bin. like in the post above. write her one last letter requiring proof within x amount of time. otherwise send a letter to the Police claiming harassment. People like this will not just give up so you need to SHUT them the F up
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Anthony1406 for this useful post:
  #9  
Old 07.12.2011, 16:21
Swiss Cheddar's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Zug
Posts: 2,146
Groaned at 40 Times in 27 Posts
Thanked 3,006 Times in 1,223 Posts
Swiss Cheddar has a reputation beyond reputeSwiss Cheddar has a reputation beyond reputeSwiss Cheddar has a reputation beyond reputeSwiss Cheddar has a reputation beyond reputeSwiss Cheddar has a reputation beyond reputeSwiss Cheddar has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What happens if you don't pay for your fine in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post
Before I checked out, the owner gave me an invoice with a total of 700CHF to reimburse for the fixation fees of the carpet, wallpaper and water basin. When i questioned about the invoice, she said it was my rice cooker that caused the damages... and when I asked her for the proof and original invoices of the fixations, she didn't give me anything.



Why did you not go at that moment with the owner to your room and ask her to show you the damage???


This is how i would of dealt with the situation:

SC: I would like to check out please.

Owner: Okay no problem.....here is your bill for your stay....and here is a seperate bill for CHF700.

SC: What is this CHF700 for??

Owner: You damaged the carpet, wallpaper and water basin with your silly rice cooker.

SC: I did not damage anything.

Owner: Yes you did!!

SC: Show me the damage.

Owner: errrr.......

SC: Thats what i thought......i will not be staying here again you cheater!!! Goodbye!!


cheers
SC
__________________
Click here if you live in Zug and want to play Rugby.

I'm Batman.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07.12.2011, 17:54
Oldhand's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 3,993
Groaned at 18 Times in 17 Posts
Thanked 6,729 Times in 2,037 Posts
Oldhand has a reputation beyond reputeOldhand has a reputation beyond reputeOldhand has a reputation beyond reputeOldhand has a reputation beyond reputeOldhand has a reputation beyond reputeOldhand has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What happens if you don't pay for your fine in Switzerland?

Why did you close the gate after the horse bolted?


Quote:
View Post


Why did you not go at that moment with the owner to your room and ask her to show you the damage???


This is how i would of dealt with the situation:

SC: I would like to check out please.

Owner: Okay no problem.....here is your bill for your stay....and here is a seperate bill for CHF700.

SC: What is this CHF700 for??

Owner: You damaged the carpet, wallpaper and water basin with your silly rice cooker.

SC: I did not damage anything.

Owner: Yes you did!!

SC: Show me the damage.

Owner: errrr.......

SC: Thats what i thought......i will not be staying here again you cheater!!! Goodbye!!


cheers
SC
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Oldhand for this useful post:
  #11  
Old 07.12.2011, 17:57
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: north
Posts: 6,141
Groaned at 219 Times in 139 Posts
Thanked 5,100 Times in 2,636 Posts
rob1 has a reputation beyond reputerob1 has a reputation beyond reputerob1 has a reputation beyond reputerob1 has a reputation beyond reputerob1 has a reputation beyond reputerob1 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What happens if you don't pay for your fine in Switzerland?

you DO NOT have a fine BTW.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07.12.2011, 18:04
TonyBhoy's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lenzburg
Posts: 597
Groaned at 15 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 283 Times in 155 Posts
TonyBhoy has an excellent reputationTonyBhoy has an excellent reputationTonyBhoy has an excellent reputationTonyBhoy has an excellent reputation
Re: What happens if you don't pay for your fine in Switzerland?

it cannot be proved that you were the cause of the damage to the room. Ignore the letters, bin them. It takes her more time and postage money than it takes you to throw it away. There is normally a "frist" (limit) as to when she can claim the money from you and i reckon its passed. She has not tried any official legal routes yet and i wouldnt think she would.

chill out and have a laugh every time you get a letter, she WONT win
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07.12.2011, 19:58
Corbets's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: DK - previously Zug
Posts: 3,328
Groaned at 169 Times in 123 Posts
Thanked 6,699 Times in 2,236 Posts
Corbets has a reputation beyond reputeCorbets has a reputation beyond reputeCorbets has a reputation beyond reputeCorbets has a reputation beyond reputeCorbets has a reputation beyond reputeCorbets has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What happens if you don't pay for your fine in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post
it cannot be proved that you were the cause of the damage to the room. Ignore the letters, bin them. It takes her more time and postage money than it takes you to throw it away. There is normally a "frist" (limit) as to when she can claim the money from you and i reckon its passed. She has not tried any official legal routes yet and i wouldnt think she would.

chill out and have a laugh every time you get a letter, she WONT win
Bad advice. You risk a bad debt claim against your name without even knowing it. instead, continue to respond calmly as advised above.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07.12.2011, 20:02
TonyBhoy's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lenzburg
Posts: 597
Groaned at 15 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 283 Times in 155 Posts
TonyBhoy has an excellent reputationTonyBhoy has an excellent reputationTonyBhoy has an excellent reputationTonyBhoy has an excellent reputation
Re: What happens if you don't pay for your fine in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post
Bad advice. You risk a bad debt claim against your name without even knowing it. instead, continue to respond calmly as advised above.
Only 1 letter needs to be sent requesting the details of the repairs (recorded delivery), she doesnt need to reply again and again if her original letter has not been answered.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07.12.2011, 20:06
cran's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Basel Stadt
Posts: 608
Groaned at 8 Times in 8 Posts
Thanked 635 Times in 264 Posts
cran has an excellent reputationcran has an excellent reputationcran has an excellent reputationcran has an excellent reputation
Re: What happens if you don't pay for your fine in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post
Bad advice. You risk a bad debt claim against your name without even knowing it. instead, continue to respond calmly as advised above.
No one else would know it either, so hardly a problem...
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 07.12.2011, 20:08
Phil_MCR's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 13,423
Groaned at 269 Times in 175 Posts
Thanked 15,886 Times in 6,739 Posts
Phil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond repute
Why is everyone going on about the invoices? If she produces them, are you going to pay it? Because asking for invoices could be construed as admission of fault and you are just establishing the amount to be paid.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 07.12.2011, 20:40
miniMia's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: romandie
Posts: 9,998
Groaned at 99 Times in 90 Posts
Thanked 9,007 Times in 4,476 Posts
miniMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What happens if you don't pay for your fine in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post
Why is everyone going on about the invoices? If she produces them, are you going to pay it? Because asking for invoices could be construed as admission of fault and you are just establishing the amount to be paid.
I agree.

Time to go visit the legal aid. I think I remember there was one in Vaud. A search on here could turn up the address. Get them to write a letter denying you caused any damage, she can't prove you caused any damage and that the matter is closed so she should stop sending you correspondence.

And then everyone should get legal insurance. The price is about 100CHF a year and well worth it as an hour of a lawyers time runs about 400 per hour.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 07.12.2011, 20:42
jmf's Avatar
jmf jmf is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Cham, ZG
Posts: 1,011
Groaned at 9 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 857 Times in 432 Posts
jmf has a reputation beyond reputejmf has a reputation beyond reputejmf has a reputation beyond reputejmf has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What happens if you don't pay for your fine in Switzerland?

Send her a letter asking for 700chf as a payment of your time wasted reading her letters so far. If she pays, send it back as payment for your damages...minus an "administrative fee"
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What happens if you do not pay health insurance? markjones Insurance 47 07.07.2017 14:57
The complete guide to bills and what happens if you don't pay them. Richard Daily life 207 11.04.2015 19:36
What happens if you don't pay billag and you're leaving Switzerland? MarcoGeneva Daily life 5 26.09.2010 15:08
what happens if you don't put "vignette" on you garbage? psychodelicate Daily life 39 07.05.2010 01:37


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 06:16.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0