Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Daily life  
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #61  
Old 10.10.2007, 09:37
mark's Avatar
The Architect
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Zollikon, Switzerland
Posts: 2,995
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 418 Times in 115 Posts
mark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond repute
Re: [chainsaw attack] What's happening in/to this country?

Quote:
View Post
Back on topic, there is probably one reason from three that the attack happened:
1. Racially motivated
2. Revenge (perhaps gang, perhaps other)
3. The two are actually just mental and it was a random target (but this can probably be discounted as they'd be likely to have done it again and what are the chances of two like minded crazy people finding each other and banding together?)
Well if we are to believe the account of the victim (from the original article):
Quote:
"We don't need Africans in our country. We're here to kill you!"
That doesn't leave much room for speculation as to the motive, at least not for me.

You are absolutely right about the forensics. There must be something to follow up on.
  #62  
Old 10.10.2007, 09:53
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: [chainsaw attack] What's happening in/to this country?

That does sound like a planned racial crime, but surely they would have waited until he was walking home or was in a less well monitored area. The ferocity of it sounds like they had just found out he had done something and rushed off to find him ASAP, as opposed to planning it too far in advance.

Also, if it was a revenge attack, when you get into a fight with someone you will run your mouth off at them when you do it, and nothing is sacred, race, religion etc it is the heat of the moment ... just think if you are so aggrovated you actually intend to kill someone, i think there would be no taboos in what you said to them.

Last edited by StirB; 10.10.2007 at 09:54. Reason: Amended 1st para
  #63  
Old 10.10.2007, 10:04
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Geneva
Posts: 5,514
Groaned at 123 Times in 108 Posts
Thanked 3,297 Times in 1,737 Posts
Shorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond reputeShorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond reputeShorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond reputeShorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond reputeShorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond reputeShorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: [chainsaw attack] What's happening in/to this country?

Quote:
View Post
You are absolutely right about the forensics. There must be something to follow up on.
Do not overestimate forensics. Remember Ylenia was found in a spot already crisscrossed by specialists both from the Police and the Army.

While the Zürich police is leaning towards the SVP poliically, I doubt they would sit just like that on photographic evidence if any were directly available from the McDonald's CCTV surveillance.

Don't forget the sexual offender just recently indicted for the Aiglon College affair that happened about six-seven years ago is Swiss and he fell victim to DNA identification when samples were took for a different offence in a different canton. The affair was neither buried nor ignored...
__________________
The opinions expressed above are not necessarily the opinions of management and in fact may be the opposite of that intended in order to confuse and obfuscate trolling readers.
  #64  
Old 10.10.2007, 10:05
mark's Avatar
The Architect
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Zollikon, Switzerland
Posts: 2,995
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 418 Times in 115 Posts
mark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond repute
Re: [chainsaw attack] What's happening in/to this country?

Quote:
View Post
That does sound like a planned racial crime, but surely they would have waited until he was walking home or was in a less well monitored area.
On the other hand, waiting around empty streets with a chainsaw waiting for the perfect moment to find a black guy walking home at 01:40 might also be a way to eventually attract attention. Maybe they got impatient.

Let's also not forget that the perpetrators of these crimes aren't usually rocket scientists.

There was no mention of whether they wore masks or stockings over their heads - that would have been smarter if they wanted to avoid getting themselves on the CCTV footage (if there is any, and this is actually being investigated).
  #65  
Old 10.10.2007, 10:44
Arkin's Avatar
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Istanbul
Posts: 18
Groaned at 9 Times in 8 Posts
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Arkin has annoyed a few people around hereArkin has annoyed a few people around here
Re: [chainsaw attack] What's happening in/to this country?

I just read this article in The Wall Street Journal Europe, the source is listed as The Washington Post. I am flabbergasted

What a shame for Switzerland that people know about this horrible event through an American paper.

What happened there is a tragedy in itself. From what I understand, the Swiss media did not cover this attack so a local tragedy turns international. This lack of coverage fits the official racism accusations :

"Across Switzerland, anti-foreigner and anti-Islamic attitudes have become so pervasive on the streets, in politics and within governmental institutions that the United Nations, European Union, Amnesty International and Switzerland's own Federal Commission Against Racism have expressed alarm in recent months."

I feel really sorry for da Costa. I mean the guy was a janitor trying to earn a living by cleaning toilets at McDonalds, an employer known at making its employees work hard.

If anyone knows how I can send money to this guy please let me know. Maybe I can make a donation through anti-racism organizations in Switzerland. Do you know any ?

I am also curious what will happen to him next ? Now that this hard-working janitor immigrant is crippled useless by racists and is unable to work, will he be deported silently some months later when the official promises of help are forgotten by everyone except da Costa family ?

I am not going to forget this day
  #66  
Old 10.10.2007, 10:59
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 305
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 202 Times in 109 Posts
adrian76 is considered knowledgeableadrian76 is considered knowledgeableadrian76 is considered knowledgeable
Re: [chainsaw attack] What's happening in/to this country?

Quote:
View Post
Dani - THAT'S WHAT IT IS! I AM THROWING THOSE SUNGLASSES INTO THE TRASH - LIKE ALL SWISS - I WANT TO BURY MY HEAD IN THE SAND!
Yeah, isn't it annoying when people interrupt your nice, comfortable, delusional existance by insisting on acknowledging reality. The nerve of some people......

Incidentally though, its not all Swiss - they aren't all wearing the rose-tinted spectacles, no way.

Last edited by adrian76; 10.10.2007 at 11:10. Reason: lets be fair tho...
  #67  
Old 10.10.2007, 11:13
Bartholemew's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: back in Zurich (but pining for Brussels periodically)
Posts: 894
Groaned at 5 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 622 Times in 320 Posts
Bartholemew has a reputation beyond reputeBartholemew has a reputation beyond reputeBartholemew has a reputation beyond reputeBartholemew has a reputation beyond reputeBartholemew has a reputation beyond repute
Re: [chainsaw attack] What's happening in/to this country?

There are a couple Antonio da Costas in or around Zurich listed in the phone book, so it's difficult to make out which one is the victim of this attack. Why don't you contact telezueri.ch, who secured an interview with da Costa a few days after the attack? They would know how to reach him, and you could ask whether they're planning a follow-up story in light of the fact that his story is receiving so much play outside of Switzerland.

Alternatively, sos-racisme.org is a non-profit combating racism.

Quote:
View Post
If anyone knows how I can send money to this guy please let me know. Maybe I can make a donation through anti-racism organizations in Switzerland. Do you know any ?

I am also curious what will happen to him next ? Now that this hard-working janitor immigrant is crippled useless by racists and is unable to work, will he be deported silently some months later when the official promises of help are forgotten by everyone except da Costa family ?
  #68  
Old 10.10.2007, 11:16
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 305
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 202 Times in 109 Posts
adrian76 is considered knowledgeableadrian76 is considered knowledgeableadrian76 is considered knowledgeable
Re: [chainsaw attack] What's happening in/to this country?

The article also mentions an organisation called 'SOS Racism', with a branch in Zurich.
  #69  
Old 10.10.2007, 11:59
flow23's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Zürich
Posts: 3,029
Groaned at 91 Times in 69 Posts
Thanked 1,777 Times in 963 Posts
flow23 has a reputation beyond reputeflow23 has a reputation beyond reputeflow23 has a reputation beyond reputeflow23 has a reputation beyond reputeflow23 has a reputation beyond reputeflow23 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: [chainsaw attack] What's happening in/to this country?

Quote:
View Post
I came across this forum as part of some research I've been doing prior to visiting Switzerland again.

I live in the USA (San Francisco, CA) and visited Zurich in 2001 - I had a fantastic time. I thought the people were great and the city was beautiful albeit a bit pricey.

From all the comments/complaints I've been reading on this forum it seems the country's changed quite a bit since then and I'm afraid/hesitant (as an Asian person) to visit here. Why should I spend my hard earned money at a place where foreigners seem to be not welcome?

Now, I read this in today's Washington Post newspaper, which pretty much seals the deal for me (not to visit):

ZURICH -- At 1:30 a.m., Antonio da Costa heard a knock at the back entrance of the McDonald's restaurant where he worked as a janitor after closing hours.

He opened the door, he recalled in an interview. There stood two men, each gripping a chain saw. One yanked the cord on his saw, stepped toward da Costa and shouted above the roaring machine: "We don't need Africans in our country. We're here to kill you!"

The two masked assailants cornered da Costa and began raking him with the whirring chain-saw blades. They slashed one arm to the bone, nearly sliced off his left thumb and hacked his face, neck and chest, the 37-year-old Angolan said, his voice quavering as he recounted the May 1 attack.

The gruesome assault in a suburb of Zurich -- consistently ranked in international surveys as one of the world's most livable cities -- dramatized the surge in racism and xenophobia as Switzerland confronts its most difficult social transformation in modern times.

More here:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...l?hpid=topnews

Peace

sorry,mate, but ask you that about your country. check the daily news who gunned down who in the US. but most of all: don't blame whole switzerland for a single incident. it's more a question in what a world we live in general, how sick our society became. i mean...one attack that you have heard about in the US(!) press holds you from coming here?
  #70  
Old 10.10.2007, 12:13
devinder2801's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 45
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
devinder2801 has no particular reputation at present
Re: [chainsaw attack] What's happening in/to this country?

Flow23,
You've hit the nail on the head!
A shooting-spree happens in the US and it is reported promptly and in an unbiased manner...
A man get hacked with a chain-saw in Switzerland and it takes ages to find even a snippet about this incident in the local media.
The point here is not about which society (Swiss or non-Swiss) is better...its more about the attitude of the media/government/authorities in handling cases of such sensitivity.
This user would like to thank devinder2801 for this useful post:
  #71  
Old 10.10.2007, 12:41
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 305
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 202 Times in 109 Posts
adrian76 is considered knowledgeableadrian76 is considered knowledgeableadrian76 is considered knowledgeable
Re: [chainsaw attack] What's happening in/to this country?

Its true that the OP shouldn't be discouraged from coming to Switzerland by this one attack - its certainly not representative of how it is here.

In fact, its still far more civilised than the other places I've lived.
  #72  
Old 10.10.2007, 13:39
Mikey's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Ex-Zurich now relieved
Posts: 650
Groaned at 18 Times in 16 Posts
Thanked 473 Times in 245 Posts
Mikey has a reputation beyond reputeMikey has a reputation beyond reputeMikey has a reputation beyond reputeMikey has a reputation beyond repute
Re: [chainsaw attack] What's happening in/to this country?

Quote:
View Post
That does sound like a planned racial crime, but surely they would have waited until he was walking home or was in a less well monitored area. The ferocity of it sounds like they had just found out he had done something and rushed off to find him ASAP, as opposed to planning it too far in advance.

Also, if it was a revenge attack, when you get into a fight with someone you will run your mouth off at them when you do it, and nothing is sacred, race, religion etc it is the heat of the moment ... just think if you are so aggrovated you actually intend to kill someone, i think there would be no taboos in what you said to them.
Sorry, but I would come to the opposite conclusion. Firstly, if it was a spur of the moment revenge attack I would find it highly unlikely that the guy would be able to instantly lay his hands on a chain-saw and also have one for his like-minded mate who is eager to join in.

The fact that they wait until this is the only guy left indicates that they have at least thought a little about their plan of attack. Also, given the amount of noise a chain-saw makes, it would seem sensible to do it inside at that time of night rather than outside where the noise would be more noticeable.

Naw, this was pre-meditated in my opinion.
  #73  
Old 10.10.2007, 13:43
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: [chainsaw attack] What's happening in/to this country?

Quote:
View Post
Sorry, but I would come to the opposite conclusion. Firstly, if it was a spur of the moment revenge attack I would find it highly unlikely that the guy would be able to instantly lay his hands on a chain-saw and also have one for his like-minded mate who is eager to join in.

The fact that they wait until this is the only guy left indicates that they have at least thought a little about their plan of attack. Also, given the amount of noise a chain-saw makes, it would seem sensible to do it inside at that time of night rather than outside where the noise would be more noticeable.

Naw, this was pre-meditated in my opinion.
Hmm, confusing, sounds like a case for Jack Reacher...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_reacher
  #74  
Old 10.10.2007, 14:50
Arkin's Avatar
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Istanbul
Posts: 18
Groaned at 9 Times in 8 Posts
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Arkin has annoyed a few people around hereArkin has annoyed a few people around here
Re: [chainsaw attack] What's happening in/to this country?

Quote:
View Post
There are a couple Antonio da Costas in or around Zurich listed in the phone book, so it's difficult to make out which one is the victim of this attack. Why don't you contact telezueri.ch, who secured an interview with da Costa a few days after the attack? They would know how to reach him, and you could ask whether they're planning a follow-up story in light of the fact that his story is receiving so much play outside of Switzerland.

Alternatively, sos-racisme.org is a non-profit combating racism.
Thanks for your interest. Unfortunately telezueri web site is in German and sos-racisme is in French. I don't know either of these languages ( I do not live in Switzerland) and my attempts to have those sites translated via Babel Fish translator lead to no success. However I will send an English fax to sos-racisme. Hope they will help.
  #75  
Old 10.10.2007, 20:03
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Genève
Posts: 108
Groaned at 4 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 11 Times in 9 Posts
GVA offline has no particular reputation at present
Re: [chainsaw attack] What's happening in/to this country?

Quote:
View Post
In all fairness, I must say that local media in the socialist republic at the end of Lake Leman went nuts about resurgence of nazism, antisemitism, xenophobia, general urban unsafety and whatnot when "some organised gang" began a "mass campaign" of keying swastikas on cars in the city center.

Not that long afterwards, it turned out "the organised gang" was some looney dude who is now in psychiatric care.
a few month ago a group of neo nazis beat up an african man in Geneva. Some Military guys jumped in to break up the fight. It was all over the news including 20 minutes, Le Matin, La Tribune.

makes me sick to my stomach when I read these things. But you need to put it in perspective, CH is still VERY safe to visit, regardless of your race.

I would have never gone to South Africa if I had based my decision on media coverage of violent crime. I went and absolutely loved it.
  #76  
Old 10.10.2007, 20:45
magyir's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Wallisellen
Posts: 1,625
Groaned at 7 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 501 Times in 346 Posts
magyir has a reputation beyond reputemagyir has a reputation beyond reputemagyir has a reputation beyond reputemagyir has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What's happening in/to this country?

Quote:
View Post

Obtaining citizenship hasn't become harder, the basic 12 years requirement has been around since 1952, with a few facilities for special cases added since then.



Even though the general naturalisation numbers are low, public votes took mainly place in these few cantons: SZ, AG, SG, ZG.

I conclude that the SVP has slowed down the creation of more generous naturalisation laws but the party has not succeeded in reversing the direction.
Hi Nathu, let's not forget the Turks in Emmen, LU reported in Time magazine at the time.
  #77  
Old 15.10.2007, 02:19
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Basel
Posts: 44
Groaned at 22 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
freiheit742 has no particular reputation at present
Re: [chainsaw attack] What's happening in/to this country?

ick, that is nasty. What is even more disturbing is that this was totally ignored by the swiss media. What if it was a swiss who got attacked by an african? the SVP would be having a field-day over that by now.
  #78  
Old 15.10.2007, 05:20
Nathu's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Zürich
Posts: 4,521
Groaned at 18 Times in 16 Posts
Thanked 2,208 Times in 1,248 Posts
Nathu has a reputation beyond reputeNathu has a reputation beyond reputeNathu has a reputation beyond reputeNathu has a reputation beyond reputeNathu has a reputation beyond reputeNathu has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What's happening in/to this country?

Quote:
View Post
Hi Nathu, let's not forget the Turks in Emmen, LU reported in Time magazine at the time.
Hi magyir! Emmen is indeed a very important case. Back in March 2000, out of 56 applicants only 8 Italians were naturalised. This revealed how biased the poll procedure is. Some of the rejected Emmen applicants from former Yugoslavia went to the federal court. It ruled that the rejections were discriminatory in 2003, and at the same day it judged decisions by poll practically unconstitutional. Since then it has ruled that under certain conditions it still is okay to have public votes about naturalisation (size of the municipality; explanatory statements for rejections - the entire matter is still subject to discussion and politics).
  #79  
Old 15.10.2007, 06:32
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Basel
Posts: 44
Groaned at 22 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
freiheit742 has no particular reputation at present
Re: What's happening in/to this country?

Quote:
View Post
Hi magyir! Emmen is indeed a very important case. Back in March 2000, out of 56 applicants only 8 Italians were naturalised. This revealed how biased the poll procedure is. Some of the rejected Emmen applicants from former Yugoslavia went to the federal court. It ruled that the rejections were discriminatory in 2003, and at the same day it judged decisions by poll practically unconstitutional. Since then it has ruled that under certain conditions it still is okay to have public votes about naturalisation (size of the municipality; explanatory statements for rejections - the entire matter is still subject to discussion and politics).
Don't understand why it takes 12 years to get naturalised in switzerland. That's the toughest rules in Europe (possibly even the world), especially considering it has to go through 3 bureacratic levels (commune, canton, federal), and is very expensive. Not only that, but it takes 10 years to become a permanent resident, which is the toughest in the world. Do the swiss really believe their nationality is the most valuable in the world?
  #80  
Old 15.10.2007, 10:31
Nathu's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Zürich
Posts: 4,521
Groaned at 18 Times in 16 Posts
Thanked 2,208 Times in 1,248 Posts
Nathu has a reputation beyond reputeNathu has a reputation beyond reputeNathu has a reputation beyond reputeNathu has a reputation beyond reputeNathu has a reputation beyond reputeNathu has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What's happening in/to this country?

Quote:
View Post
Don't understand why it takes 12 years to get naturalised in switzerland. That's the toughest rules in Europe (possibly even the world), especially considering it has to go through 3 bureacratic levels (commune, canton, federal), and is very expensive. Not only that, but it takes 10 years to become a permanent resident, which is the toughest in the world. Do the swiss really believe their nationality is the most valuable in the world?
These rules in themselves aren't racist, it's their non-uniform application that can be criticised for a racist attitude.
Closed Thread

Tags
angolan, chainsaw, hate crime, racism, xenophobia




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Attack of the killer Pollen! l00p Daily life 12 11.04.2010 14:11
What's happening in Basel Saturday??? JuJu Daily life 2 02.05.2007 14:54
anything happening tonight ? arsalan Introductions 0 28.04.2007 14:47
Some news from the home country [UK] terryhall General off-topic 4 26.04.2007 20:56


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 19:12.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0