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  #101  
Old 21.12.2011, 14:56
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Re: Salary increase 2012

To return to the original topic of this thread: all cantonal employees in ZH are getting a 0.5% cost of living increase for 2012. This is based on the nationwide consumer price index (Landesindex der Konsumentenpreise), which indicates that prices went up 0.5% between September 2010 and September 2011.

Employees of canton Basel-Land get no pay raise, but an extra vacation day in April. Apparently they did a survey back in 2008 and the civil servants of Basel-Land unequivocally declared this is what they wanted instead of shorter hours or higher salaries - so that's what they're having this year.

Employees of canton Zug get nothing this year.

If you want to search for any of this stuff yourself, keywords to google for it in German are Teuerungszulage and Teuerungsausgleich.
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  #102  
Old 21.12.2011, 20:48
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Re: Salary increase 2012

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Maybe Karl you are not aware that you have just broken the trust between you and your employer. This information is considered confidential, and as you have revealed it, you could now be dismissed instantly!
Please ask your personal manager, for an accurate and up to date opinion.
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  #103  
Old 21.12.2011, 21:46
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Re: Salary increase 2012

So far, hubby has not failed to get a salary increase every year. His is based upon performance though and is done sometime in the spring rather than at end of the year.

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I'm not a complainer

Were the truth about the RANGE of salaries of people on this site be widely known, there would be an interesting change in dynamic shortly thereafter. I'd be willing to put good money on the fact that the difference between highest and lowest is around 15x....Hold the front page - but not all expats based in Switzerland scrape by

Huh.

And here I had the impression from many that "all" expats are floating rather serenely on their Scrooge McDuck style vats full of money.



I don't think the money figures matter much anyhow as it becomes relative for many folks because their spending habits tend to match their earnings... We have something like 100chf of truly "disposable" income any given month, which for my activity is generally alright for me.

Similarly, someone who makes 120k, is accustomed to heading out for frequent spendy vacations (with subsequent credit card bills coming due) and wouldn't dream of buying groceries any place other than Globus probably feels generally alright with 1k of truly "disposable" monies.

Figures may be different, what it looks like may be different but the ultimate feel is fairly much the same.



Oh, almost forgot about this gem:
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i was on a plane to the US last week and the woman next to me asked what i did (after some other chit chat) she then proceeded to ask me how much i made. i said im not really sure, so she proceeded to guess and really pressed me on the figures despite my obvious squirming.

i think its an american thing...
Obviously I can not answer for whatever woman was sitting next to you on your flight BUT I tend to be a bit curious sometimes about what earning potential is for specific career fields. Maybe her query had nothing to do with you but rather wanting to know what Job X pays in Switzerland compared to the US.

(or, with less sugar coating... get over yourself.)
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  #104  
Old 21.12.2011, 22:14
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Re: Salary increase 2012

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Most of you are obviously not aware, or not wishing to know, that you can be instantly dismissed for revealing details in your employment contract.
...?

I worked in Switzerland for (nearly) 2 years until 2009. In my first week I was told to have a good nose in the shared servers to see what the company was about - and, to my great surprise, I found a list of all the other employees and their salaries. No doubt this was a mistake by finance as it disappeared about a month later. I said nothing at the time.

About a month ago they contacted me to ask me to apply for the deputy CEO job . At the interview they asked my salary expectations so I said 'the same as the last deputy CEO'. They asked me to be more precise, so I was!

I know the CEO well, since he was the deputy CEO when I was there. He asked post-interview how I knew his previous salary, so I explained. He was surprised at the mistake but didn't go further.

I was subsequently offered the job and have accepted, contracts are now signed and all that.

So, contrary to being dismissed, I was hired after revealing contract details. There is nothing in my new contract, nor in the company handbook, which refers to this, though I don't see myself ever revealing any of my colleagues' contract details in any other situation...
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  #105  
Old 21.12.2011, 22:23
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Re: Salary increase 2012

Sometimes instead of asking a salary increase it's better to ask for financing a training program or finance some certifications for special skills.
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  #106  
Old 22.12.2011, 00:32
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Re: Salary increase 2012

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Sometimes instead of asking a salary increase it's better to ask for financing a training program or finance some certifications for special skills.
Or just working a bit less - in a way it's also an increase
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  #107  
Old 22.12.2011, 13:48
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Re: Salary increase 2012

In the poster's defence, the CHF 120,000 will not get you that far in Switzerland. It's all relative. Factoring in the high cost of living (especially if you have several mouths to feed), chances are not much will be left at the end of the month. I vividly recall the thread on EF about the "threshold" so to say of moving to a place like Zug.

It doesn't make sense to live in Zug with 400k a year or less

PS First post ... long-time reader ... go easy on me!

[QUOTE=krlock3;1439603]Thanks. At this salary, please cease and desist with immediate effect from complaining about anything and everything, and never be unhappy again unless you want to open yourself to all accusations of ungratefulness. your lifestyle is clearly more caviar than chips.
QUOTE]
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  #108  
Old 22.12.2011, 14:52
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Re: Salary increase 2012

I've been in my current job (and in CH) for 18 months now. Obviously last year I did not expect a payrise, but then again my moving/starting in CH salary was 'good'. I 'expect' an increase of 2% at the end of the year, for cost-of-living. I'll find out in January or February.

I would however be happy to accept extra time off in lieu (I loved the 35 hour week in France, which for me worked out to every other Friday off )

Last edited by c123; 22.12.2011 at 15:27. Reason: typo
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  #109  
Old 22.12.2011, 17:15
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Re: Salary increase 2012

As OP, believe me, 120K with 2 kids is no luxury. My wife works parttime and brings in an additional 60K, and in a good year I will get a 10K bonus. Do I consider us rich? No. Comfortable is more accurate. We still count every franc, and I pack a sandwich for work.
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  #110  
Old 22.12.2011, 18:28
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Re: Salary increase 2012

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In the poster's defence, the CHF 120,000 will not get you that far in Switzerland. It's all relative. Factoring in the high cost of living (especially if you have several mouths to feed), chances are not much will be left at the end of the month. I vividly recall the thread on EF about the "threshold" so to say of moving to a place like Zug.
Shhhhh.....I don't really earn CHF120 000. Its just if you say you earn anymore or are comfortably off with your salary, the villagers bring out the pitchforks and chase you out of EFtown.
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  #111  
Old 22.12.2011, 19:14
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Re: Salary increase 2012

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In the poster's defence, the CHF 120,000 will not get you that far in Switzerland. It's all relative. Factoring in the high cost of living (especially if you have several mouths to feed), chances are not much will be left at the end of the month.
Going easy as requested... (welcome to EF, by the way!) I'll just point out that whether CHF120K will 'get you that far' really depends quite heavily on your definition of 'that far'.

CHF120K is right around the median 'primary household income' (=combined salaries plus any investment or rental income) for families with children - and in fact slightly above the median income for families with three or more children - so I can only conclude that it's well doable. You might not be off to Thailand every year, and the kids might have to ride (gasp!) secondhand bikes to public school, but nobody will be going to bed hungry either.

As my mother would say, you cut your coat to fit your cloth and not the other way round.
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  #112  
Old 22.12.2011, 19:16
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Re: Salary increase 2012

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Do I consider us rich? No.
Most people in Switzerland, on the other hand, would consider you to be very rich.
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  #113  
Old 22.12.2011, 19:26
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Re: Salary increase 2012

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As OP, believe me, 120K with 2 kids is no luxury. My wife works parttime and brings in an additional 60K, and in a good year I will get a 10K bonus. Do I consider us rich? No. Comfortable is more accurate. We still count every franc, and I pack a sandwich for work.
For your statistical consideration: even without any bonus, 120K puts you in the top 10% of full-time employees in Switzerland. Your wife's 60K (if she works full-time to get it - may or may not be the case, I've no idea) is somewhat below the median, probably about the 35th percentile.

My point is just that there are people making both a lot more and a lot less than you, who nevertheless would classify themselves, just as you do, as 'comfortable but not rich'. Perception is everything.
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  #114  
Old 22.12.2011, 19:32
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Re: Salary increase 2012

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For your statistical consideration: even without any bonus, 120K puts you in the top 10% of full-time employees in Switzerland.
Is that true? That's interesting (I'm not doubting it - that's genuine!)

You got that base data?
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Old 22.12.2011, 19:38
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Re: Salary increase 2012

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Is that true? That's interesting (I'm not doubting it - that's genuine!)

You got that base data?
Here you go (all in German though, sorry.)

The median is CHF 5777/month pre-tax (so just under 70K/year), 10th percentile is 3823/month (=45K/year) and 90th percentile is 10513/month (= 126K/year - a little higher than I remembered it - so maybe the OP's only in the top 12% after all.)
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  #116  
Old 22.12.2011, 19:53
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Re: Salary increase 2012

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As OP, believe me, 120K with 2 kids is no luxury. My wife works parttime and brings in an additional 60K, and in a good year I will get a 10K bonus. Do I consider us rich? No. Comfortable is more accurate. We still count every franc, and I pack a sandwich for work.
you must be doing something wrong or you have a special lifestyle.
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  #117  
Old 22.12.2011, 19:58
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Re: Salary increase 2012

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you must be doing something wrong or you have a special lifestyle.
I'll forgive the 2% "margin of error" - thanks
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Old 22.12.2011, 20:11
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Re: Salary increase 2012

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Here you go (all in German though, sorry.)

The median is CHF 5777/month pre-tax (so just under 70K/year), 10th percentile is 3823/month (=45K/year) and 90th percentile is 10513/month (= 126K/year - a little higher than I remembered it - so maybe the OP's only in the top 12% after all.)
The same in french: http://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/portal/f...h_branche.html

Looking at the published numbers, I feel (almost) rich again
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Old 22.12.2011, 20:39
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Re: Salary increase 2012

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For your statistical consideration: even without any bonus, 120K puts you in the top 10% of full-time employees in Switzerland. Your wife's 60K (if she works full-time to get it - may or may not be the case, I've no idea) is somewhat below the median, probably about the 35th percentile.

My point is just that there are people making both a lot more and a lot less than you, who nevertheless would classify themselves, just as you do, as 'comfortable but not rich'. Perception is everything.
if you compare it to world income, then an even smaller income puts you in the top 10%. (US$ 10k will put you in the top 14% globally)

the thing is, what someone earns in africa, or what some farmer in argau earns has little relevance to me.

rightly, or wrongly, we judge ourselves by our peer group and so what might be more interesting is what the percentiles are for expats in switzerland - and i suspect i would be much further down the pecking order compared to a global list, or a country list.
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  #120  
Old 22.12.2011, 20:44
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Re: Salary increase 2012

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you must be doing something wrong or you have a special lifestyle.
I don't think so. I think it comes down to upbringing and peer group - I also think this applies to many things, not just what is considered rich vs "comfortable" where lifestyle spending is concerned.

If one is from a "comfortable" background similar to what Karl seems to have as a "comfortable" life with 180k - 190k in household earnings (keeping in mind his potential 10k bonus and the 60k his wife brings in), the lifestyle one gets when one starts earning that (figuring that he didn't always earn that) will still feel comfortable rather than "rich."

Likewise, my father was career military, we didn't have much extra but I could often ask my father for a tenner to head to the movies as a teen, so the lifestyle hubby and I have on less than a quarter of Karl's earnings (we can go to the movies once or twice a month) seems "comfortable" to me.


Same goes pretty much with peers... birds of a feather and all.
Normally, many of my friends are gained through work or other face-to-face free time activities, or they had been prior to moving here anyhow. Since it is unlikely I'd "hang" with the CEO rather than hang with my buddy who is with me in the trenches day in and day out, my peer group likely has similar income to mine. Our activities will be similar in scope and cost, with me maybe being "extravagant" on different things than they, but over all, within a given year, our free time spending would probably be similar. Our housing would be similar value to each other, same with vehicle or other similar possessions.

Since the peer group would (normally) have similar earnings, the idea of "comfort" vs "rich" also would probably be similar across the group. Of course, EF is very different since our main commonality is language rather than station in life, so the differences in perception become more apparent than it would normally otherwise be.
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