Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Daily life
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08.02.2012, 16:28
StirB's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 2,410
Groaned at 65 Times in 56 Posts
Thanked 3,349 Times in 1,437 Posts
StirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond repute
Is Air-Conditioning against the law?

Strange question, I know. 'Discussion' with a colleague at work...

I seem to remember reading somewhere that there were special regulations about installing air-con in new buildings, or residential / commercial buildings here.

My hunch seems to be bourne out, given most new apartments are now built to minergie standards - i.e. passive climate control and none of the cube farms I have worked in have air-con.

Have I made this up, or is there some truth to it? The price of a coffee and muffin depends on it!!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08.02.2012, 16:32
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 5
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
thejerk has no particular reputation at present
Re: Is Air-Conditioning against the law?

Too many companies make money installing aircon units in CH for it to be illegal I think. Let's try to settle this before summer though.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08.02.2012, 16:45
TiMow's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Fribourg
Posts: 9,308
Groaned at 292 Times in 196 Posts
Thanked 12,189 Times in 5,300 Posts
TiMow has a reputation beyond reputeTiMow has a reputation beyond reputeTiMow has a reputation beyond reputeTiMow has a reputation beyond reputeTiMow has a reputation beyond reputeTiMow has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is Air-Conditioning against the law?

It's why the trains, trams and buses are always full in the summer.

The heating/hot water luft warme pumpe in my new house has a cooling function, which will run cooled water through the underfloor pipes in summer - only used so far for heating, so haven't tried it yet, but it will hopefully work as would air-con.

Maybe other heating systems work like this, thus eliminating actual air-con in new builds.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08.02.2012, 16:48
Village Idiot's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 3,486
Groaned at 35 Times in 32 Posts
Thanked 6,551 Times in 2,099 Posts
Village Idiot has a reputation beyond reputeVillage Idiot has a reputation beyond reputeVillage Idiot has a reputation beyond reputeVillage Idiot has a reputation beyond reputeVillage Idiot has a reputation beyond reputeVillage Idiot has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is Air-Conditioning against the law?

I *heard* (but have never verified) that you can install air conditioning in common areas like lobbies and meeting rooms, but in normal working space it wasn't permitted.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08.02.2012, 16:54
Lou's Avatar
Lou Lou is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Zurich
Posts: 3,784
Groaned at 10 Times in 10 Posts
Thanked 3,227 Times in 1,474 Posts
Lou has a reputation beyond reputeLou has a reputation beyond reputeLou has a reputation beyond reputeLou has a reputation beyond reputeLou has a reputation beyond reputeLou has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is Air-Conditioning against the law?

I was told the same thing a few years back when I was moved to a brand new building with my work. There was no air-con installed just some more environmentally friendly air cooling system.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08.02.2012, 16:59
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Neuchatel
Posts: 21,038
Groaned at 445 Times in 337 Posts
Thanked 23,990 Times in 10,889 Posts
Odile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is Air-Conditioning against the law?

Makes a lot more sense to have imaginative and environmentally friendly alternatives - especially when the number of days when temperatures are just too high is so low?
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08.02.2012, 17:07
KeinFranzösisch's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 2,212
Groaned at 64 Times in 39 Posts
Thanked 2,549 Times in 1,115 Posts
KeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond reputeKeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond reputeKeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond reputeKeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond reputeKeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond reputeKeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is Air-Conditioning against the law?

I was amazed to have survived summer here.... and it was only barely. Workplaces would get greater productivity if employees were given workspaces that were kept at temperature in the summer, as they also are in the Winter. I dunno why it's hard to accept this. And it's only going to be staying warmer longer in coming years.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank KeinFranzösisch for this useful post:
  #8  
Old 08.02.2012, 17:09
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SZ
Posts: 8,743
Groaned at 19 Times in 18 Posts
Thanked 19,243 Times in 6,162 Posts
meloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is Air-Conditioning against the law?

When we moved here 14 years ago, we were told that air conditioning was illegal in private houses - but when I asked, no one could ever point to a specific law. So maybe an urban legend, or one of those 'everybody knows' things...

Anyway, local building regs or neighborhood design restrictions might not allow a central air conditioning system - but that's very much a case-by-case thing.

A neighbor wanted to put in a central system, the kind with the condenser unit outside. Other neighbors protested, and her permit was denied. But the denial not because it was an air conditioner per se, but because the condenser unit was classed as a structure. But again, a local issue only.

But certainly the portable units are very much allowed, and sell briskly in the summer. Although why they can't be designed to be installed for the way windows most commonly open here is something I just don't understand. I've often wondered if the clumsy design/wacky installation is to discourage people from using the units...




Quote:
View Post
Makes a lot more sense to have imaginative and environmentally friendly alternatives - especially when the number of days when temperatures are just too high is so low?
Unfortunately, the most imaginitive and environmentally friendly alternative - maintaining beautiful, majestic, mature trees - is indeed illegal here. Tree heights are strictly enforced, and pressure is brought to bear to cut all shade trees down. (Cue Joni Mitchell )

Heck, our local rag recently reported a case of tree poisoning in a neighborhood dispute.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank meloncollie for this useful post:
  #9  
Old 08.02.2012, 17:11
Wife_of_Porsch's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Neuchatel
Posts: 36
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 79 Times in 22 Posts
Wife_of_Porsch has an excellent reputationWife_of_Porsch has an excellent reputationWife_of_Porsch has an excellent reputationWife_of_Porsch has an excellent reputation
Re: Is Air-Conditioning against the law?

The rule is that you have to prove you need air conditioning before you are allowed to install it. Therefore places like laboratories which have a lot of equipment that generates a lot of heat are allowed air conditioning or a store which has a lot of freezers and fridges like the local Indian Bazar in Neuchatel...which has air coniditoning.
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank Wife_of_Porsch for this useful post:
  #10  
Old 08.02.2012, 17:17
cannut's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: canada
Posts: 6,577
Groaned at 179 Times in 139 Posts
Thanked 5,758 Times in 3,156 Posts
cannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is Air-Conditioning against the law?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...ing-again.html

It makes perfect sense,if you ask me
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 08.02.2012, 17:19
StirB's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 2,410
Groaned at 65 Times in 56 Posts
Thanked 3,349 Times in 1,437 Posts
StirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is Air-Conditioning against the law?

Quote:
View Post
The rule is that you have to prove you need air conditioning before you are allowed to install it. Therefore places like laboratories which have a lot of equipment that generates a lot of heat are allowed air conditioning or a store which has a lot of freezers and fridges like the local Indian Bazar in Neuchatel...which has air coniditoning.
Excellent, thanks WoP! Do you have a link to any official Docs for this?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank StirB for this useful post:
  #12  
Old 08.02.2012, 17:22
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Neuchatel
Posts: 21,038
Groaned at 445 Times in 337 Posts
Thanked 23,990 Times in 10,889 Posts
Odile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is Air-Conditioning against the law?

meloncollie we are surrounded by massive, majestic trees here, some several hundred years old and 40+ metres high and some in a very public space (the Church grounds). You really seem to have drawn the short straw in your location, I am sorry to say.

One of our neighbours killed two flowering cherries in our garden in UK- he had built a bungalow just 1m25 from our boundary where the tree was 30 years before he chose to build it there. B****rds are everywhere, thank goodness in small numbers.

Last year's hot spell was very unusual - and how long did it last?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Odile for this useful post:
  #13  
Old 08.02.2012, 17:25
KeinFranzösisch's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 2,212
Groaned at 64 Times in 39 Posts
Thanked 2,549 Times in 1,115 Posts
KeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond reputeKeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond reputeKeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond reputeKeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond reputeKeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond reputeKeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is Air-Conditioning against the law?

Quote:
View Post

But certainly the portable units are very much allowed, and sell briskly in the summer.

I hemmed and hawed over buying one last Summer. Everyone I talked to told me not to do it, because it would make my electric bill go through the roof. :-/ Well. I couldn't really afford any unexpected expenses, this being Switzerland and all, and already so full of unexpected expenses as it was... so I didn't buy one, heading the advice of so many people.

Then August came. I bought more fans at first, to the point where I had 8 fans at fullspeed 24 hours a day to cool my 3 room apartment. That just wasn't cutting it anymore, and I couldn't sleep at night. Finally I got one of those portable AC's. And yes... the vent hose is not compatible with windows here, but I got it sorted with some rigging.

I ran the AC in my bedroom 24/7 for the rest of August and oooooooh what a relief it was. I was so glad I bought it. And if I'm here again this summer, I'll buy another one for the living room.

The effect on my electric bill was negligible. In fact.. .compared to electricity prices in the US I find the Swiss prices to be laughable.... 1/3 of the cost. (but perhaps 1/3 of the use?)
__________________
I would sooner have you hate me for telling you the truth than adore me for telling you lies. - Pietro Aretino
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank KeinFranzösisch for this useful post:
  #14  
Old 08.02.2012, 17:26
cannut's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: canada
Posts: 6,577
Groaned at 179 Times in 139 Posts
Thanked 5,758 Times in 3,156 Posts
cannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is Air-Conditioning against the law?

Take in to consideration ,that AC takes a lot of Power (elect.)The swiss power grit could not handle it. The swiss power grit is at its maximum and expand it it, is almost impossible.So it would make sens
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 08.02.2012, 17:26
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 3,442
Groaned at 18 Times in 16 Posts
Thanked 1,980 Times in 1,176 Posts
CH_Me has a reputation beyond reputeCH_Me has a reputation beyond reputeCH_Me has a reputation beyond reputeCH_Me has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is Air-Conditioning against the law?

Quote:
View Post
When we moved here 14 years ago, we were told that air conditioning was illegal in private houses - but when I asked, no one could ever point to a specific law. So maybe an urban legend, or one of those 'everybody knows' things...

Anyway, local building regs or neighborhood design restrictions might not allow a central air conditioning system - but that's very much a case-by-case thing.

A neighbor wanted to put in a central system, the kind with the condenser unit outside. Other neighbors protested, and her permit was denied. But the denial not because it was an air conditioner per se, but because the condenser unit was classed as a structure. But again, a local issue only.
My house was built around 14 years ago and I have 2 split systems, 1 in the main bedroom and one in the cellar. Both condenser units are on the building plans, so I assume had to pass some kind of planning even though they are not visible externally, with one in a slightly wider underground area that brings light to cellar window and the other on the roof behind a wall.

I really doubt that air con is against the law. How would people keep their wine at a constant temperature? How would companies keep their server rooms cool?
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 08.02.2012, 17:28
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Neuchatel
Posts: 21,038
Groaned at 445 Times in 337 Posts
Thanked 23,990 Times in 10,889 Posts
Odile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is Air-Conditioning against the law?

Great air con here - windows, very thick walls and mountains

Wine temperature? That is why we have cellars in CH. Most restaurants and individuals also have special wine fridges.
Not sure what a 'server' room is? Restaurants have huge fridges/cool rooms. Patio heaters are also illegal in most areas- for the same reason. Isn't it time we all came to realise that 'throwing' away loads of electricity, oil and other energy sources does NOT make sense.
Not many Hummers around here either.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 08.02.2012, 17:29
Wife_of_Porsch's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Neuchatel
Posts: 36
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 79 Times in 22 Posts
Wife_of_Porsch has an excellent reputationWife_of_Porsch has an excellent reputationWife_of_Porsch has an excellent reputationWife_of_Porsch has an excellent reputation
Re: Is Air-Conditioning against the law?

Quote:
View Post
Excellent, thanks WoP! Do you have a link to any official Docs for this?
To be honest, it's what my husband told me which his work told him when they got air conditioning installed in his lab and what the guy in the indian bazar told me on a particularly hot day in Neuchatel

http://www.geneve.ch/legislation/rsg..._L2_30P01.html

I found this which would probably answer your question though?


rt. 13H (19) Air conditioning installations subject to authorization
1 An authorization may be granted for air conditioning comfort with waste heat recovery are essentially within the meaning of Article 22B, paragraph 4, of the law when following conditions are met:
a) at least 80% of the available waste heat is recovered;
b) the applicant agrees that the installation meets all the energy defined by section 12J of this Regulation;
c) the installation is subject to a concept of measuring and monitoring of annual energy consumption and waste heat;
d) cooling water is valued at its output if the plant is fed by the potable water system.
2 An authorization may be granted for air conditioning for comfort in a building conforms to a standard high-energy performance within the meaning of Article 22B, paragraph 4, of the law when the following conditions are met:
a) air-conditioned spaces are not used for housing;
b) they meet the definition of a low power electrical installation within the meaning of SIA 382/1;
c) their discharges of heat are valued in the building or made available to other makers of heat through construction and technical resources;
d) the applicant agrees that the installation meets all the energy defined by section 12J of this Regulation;
e) cooling water is valued at its output if the plant is fed by the potable water system.
3 The air conditioning comfort with a cooling capacity greater than 20 kW are subject to annual monitoring of energy consumption. It's the same for several air conditioning comfort used by a same-taker cold and located in one building combined with a cooling capacity greater than 20 kW. Air conditioning systems for comfort cooling capacity above 100 kW are monitored daily the power capacity implementation.
4 Data from follow-up of energy are made ​​available to the department.
5 The waste heat from air conditioning systems are valued. Exceptions are possible on the basis of proof of economic disparity and / or non-technical feasibility. The disproportion is proved if it is shown an additional cost of more than 10% based on a calculation being made ​​on the life of the facilities and the cost of integrating work and energy savings resulting from the valuation of discharges, given the subsidies available both federal and cantonal level.
6 The comfort conditions are not guaranteed within the meaning of Article 22B, paragraph 3, of the law when:
a) the internal heat loads exceed the thresholds set by the SIA 382/1;
b) the ambient temperature meets the specific requirements justified; or
c) the air temperature inside exceeds the limit set by the SIA 382/1 for more than 100 hours per year during the period of use of premises concerned.

Crappy google translate translation
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank Wife_of_Porsch for this useful post:
  #18  
Old 08.02.2012, 17:34
MacGregor's Daughter's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Zug
Posts: 3,183
Groaned at 32 Times in 24 Posts
Thanked 3,563 Times in 1,463 Posts
MacGregor's Daughter has a reputation beyond reputeMacGregor's Daughter has a reputation beyond reputeMacGregor's Daughter has a reputation beyond reputeMacGregor's Daughter has a reputation beyond reputeMacGregor's Daughter has a reputation beyond reputeMacGregor's Daughter has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is Air-Conditioning against the law?

Quote:
View Post
The rule is that you have to prove you need air conditioning before you are allowed to install it. Therefore places like laboratories which have a lot of equipment that generates a lot of heat are allowed air conditioning or a store which has a lot of freezers and fridges like the local Indian Bazar in Neuchatel...which has air coniditoning.
And just when I thought NOTHING in Switzerland would surprise me any more.......
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 08.02.2012, 17:37
Village Idiot's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 3,486
Groaned at 35 Times in 32 Posts
Thanked 6,551 Times in 2,099 Posts
Village Idiot has a reputation beyond reputeVillage Idiot has a reputation beyond reputeVillage Idiot has a reputation beyond reputeVillage Idiot has a reputation beyond reputeVillage Idiot has a reputation beyond reputeVillage Idiot has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is Air-Conditioning against the law?

So a little more anecdotal evidence:

On the Novartis wikipedia page, it says this:

Quote:
Novel features and technologies were introduced by Gehry to conform to the building standards of the Swiss government that prohibit air-conditioning, while still selecting a contemporary style of massive use of glass exteriors. One adaptation by the architect includes the integration of a building vent, teepee-style, through the roof, which creates a chimney effect that draws cool air in at the lower levels and vents warmer air.
I also found a technical manual for an exhibition hall in Geneva which says (p. 8):

Quote:
Air conditioning within the Exhibition hall
Please note that the Exhibition hall does not have air conditioning as per regulations within Switzerland. The Exhibition hall will be ventilated (32 central & peripheral units every 22m).
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Village Idiot for this useful post:
  #20  
Old 08.02.2012, 17:58
Village Idiot's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 3,486
Groaned at 35 Times in 32 Posts
Thanked 6,551 Times in 2,099 Posts
Village Idiot has a reputation beyond reputeVillage Idiot has a reputation beyond reputeVillage Idiot has a reputation beyond reputeVillage Idiot has a reputation beyond reputeVillage Idiot has a reputation beyond reputeVillage Idiot has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is Air-Conditioning against the law?

Further research shows that the legislation that you're looking for to support your cup of coffee is:

SIA V382/1-3 from the Switzerland Society of Engineers and Architects

but that's where my Googling skills exceed my linguistic skills.

Still, it should be enough to win your bet.

Last edited by Village Idiot; 08.02.2012 at 18:07. Reason: Edited to acknowledge that Wife_of_Porsch beat me to the correct answer!
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Village Idiot for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Wanted: Air Conditioning unit mazule Items wanted 1 09.06.2011 20:43
Air conditioning / dehumidifiers samj Daily life 4 19.10.2010 14:37
air conditioning refill travnett Transportation/driving 1 13.07.2010 17:40
[Basel] WANTED: Air conditioning Angela-74 Items wanted 4 16.08.2009 20:26


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 05:58.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0