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Old 11.02.2012, 17:59
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Re: I love this country

US is the Best Place to Live
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Old 11.02.2012, 18:07
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Re: I love this country

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US is the Best Place to Live
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  #43  
Old 11.02.2012, 18:08
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Re: I love this country

both r correct
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Old 11.02.2012, 19:04
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I would have to agree. Like LMerkel, I'm also from New York. While there are aspects of life I love here, there are are things I miss from "back home." I've gotten used to stores with limited opening hours, but it's taught me to plan better, so it's not an issue for me anymore. I've also gotten used to the dearth of choices here in terms of food, clothing and other items, but I've found ways around that by doing cross-border shopping and ordering what I need from abroad.

But with respect to professional growth, Switzerland has not been good for me. As a woman, it's almost impossible to advance or move up in companies here, no matter how educated or experienced. My career has stagnated here. I've seen some Swiss co-workers given preferential treatment, although they consistently underperform and don't really add value in a team. I've both seen and experienced mobbing and attempts to sabotage my job performance by my lovely Swiss ex-colleagues and ex-manager, who seemed to view my work experience and education as a threat rather than an asset!

I've spoken to other women here from the US/UK and other places who also make the same complaints and are also frustrated professionally. FWIW, I've also met Swiss women who were frustrated with corporate life here, especially after they had children and were driven out of the workplace. Some were at least able to start their own businesses.

With respect to personal growth, back in New York, I often went to lectures, took workshops, short courses and the like to "better myself" derive intellectual stimulation and broaden my knowledge. Those courses/lectures/workshops either don't exist here, because there's little to no demand or, if they are available, they're all in German, which I have not yet mastered well enough to be able to participate in or derive any benefit from a course or workshop. So I have to settle for trying to find alternatives online or attending workshops and the like during visits to New York.

None of these grievances means I am immature or short of true happiness, and it would be absolutely ridiculous for anyone to infer such a thing. The reality is that there are limitations here for those of us who want to do more, and it's got nothing to do with any so-called "emotional hoopla, egotistical energy to feed off of."
My post wasn't relating to "professional growth" and jobs. And what you experience here as far as your career goes, happens "everywhere" as far as women are concerned. Nothing new there. Just because a person holds a certain professional job does not mean that they are mature. One has nothing to do with the other. Remember the story a few years ago about the woman who worked at Nassau in the United States? She was an astronaut, for goodness sakes! What does she do? She was in a love affair with a married man who dumped her. She drives like 7 or 8 hours, wearing a DIAPER, so she wouldn't have to stop for the bathroom, in order to kill her rival, his wife. This woman had master degrees, studied physics the whole nine-yards. Do you think she was mature?

You keep relating to "back in New York." You haven't "fully" accepted the fact that you are not "back in New York" you are in Switzerland. And once you "completely" accept that fact, you can "grow" into the new individual that's trying to emerge through your experiences in Switzerland.
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  #45  
Old 11.02.2012, 19:04
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Re: I love this country

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I get you. I still think the US is the best place for me in a lot of ways, but I wanted something different and living in CH has provided that. I kinda like the prudent mentality of German speakers, compared to the sometimes gung-ho mentality of America. There are advantages to both mentalities, so I guess it's a matter of personal preference.

It's not all cowbells and Heidi out here though, but it seems you know that, but wanna make sure you aren't suffering from 'grass is greener' syndrome. Just wait until you get your first passive aggressive note, which is fun, or deal with nosy and antagonistic neighbors, which is not so fun. CH will sometimes feel a bit overrated, like SEC football.

<sorry had to get that dig in >
All in all they seem to mesh well with my personality. Of course I don't think people should move to find someplace that just meshes with their personality. I would be moving to Africa if my Fiance was in Africa. Home is where the heart is after all.

Oh we have a very nosy neighbor, we call him Radio Wangen. Nice fellow though, always watching out for us. Or other neighbors are older folks as well, a lady my wife helps carry her groceries home for her, and a few others. It's a good little community where we are.

Argh! Hehe, I did not expect to see the SEC bias here lol lol! Good news is I can still watch games on sportzwebs if I desire.
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  #46  
Old 11.02.2012, 19:06
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I will refrain from further posting on this thread. The difference may not only be in mind set but in experience as well. If this is his first move abroad, then it is certainly understandable, how everything is exciting, new and better and I by no means would want to spoil his exuberance.


OP, if you're reading this, keep in mind, that there are no emergency pharmacies in the vicinity and if you need cough syrup or an aspirin, you'll have to go to the emergency room. I know some people who found out the hard way. (free of charge tip..didn't mean to instigate)
Well I can't use aspirin because of Gout, and I haven't had a cold in over 5 years. But that being said I will definitely take that advise. Information such as this I find invaluable, because it's the little things that we don't think of that usually throw someone for a loop!
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  #47  
Old 11.02.2012, 19:12
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Re: I love this country

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This thread is making me laugh. I will not spoil the fun for OP as I think he's still wearing major pink shades. Coincidentally, he's in my geographic vicinity...so I'm curious to what he's got to say in 6 month from now.
Lo, well I've been technically living there on tourist visas off and on for some time. I know the whole grey dreary fog around Olten and such. I actually like Olten, but not all the time, and it depends on what you like to do. In November I went to a private Mozart Concert (well duet) in a small building therein not far from the old bridge. It was wonderful.

But then me and my fiance are odd balls. We go to living history events, and what not. Spend a lot of time traveling to various museums, and archaelogical sites.

But yeah, major rose colored glasses here, I will admit. This is my first move abroad, and the first time I have moved out of my own city. I have traveled quite a broad for business, but this is different.
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  #48  
Old 11.02.2012, 19:18
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Re: I love this country

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You don't have to apologize. America is a 1st world- 3rd world country. You have the right idea about Switzerland. Switzerland is not the broo-ha-ha, we are the champions, loud, over-the-top, have it all type of society. Which is lovely...For example, you would never, never find someone in Switzerland working 2 or 3 jobs to pay for their car or their mortgage. It just isn't done. In the US you find people working 2 or 3 minimum wage jobs to pay for their car or pay down their credit card bill. In Switzerland people work to live, not live to work, and because of that they have more. They have a better quality of life.

There are so many things that can be said but I understand your feeling about the way of life in Switzerland perfectly. It takes more intelligence than emotion to appreciate the way Switzerland is run and why. You find that a lot of their rules and laws make perfect sense.

No place is perfect of course, but Switzerland is one of the only places where you can dam near have a perfect life...Good Luck
In America it is easy to become enslaved by debt. I had it happen to me, and I am just now out of debt. Everyone talks about how expensive Switzerland is, but that is really only if you eat out a lot, have a car, and expect to live in the city. We have done the math, and me and my fiance can live comfortably off of her salary until i find a job (and she makes a decent living, but not more). You can't do that in the states.

But then it all depends on what you value, and what you want to do. I am a very inexpensive person to keep around, and we both don't care much for television, movies, nights out on the town and thus forth. If I was going to fancy clubs all of the time, eating out, had a car, living off one salary for even a short time would be a very dangerous proposition.
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  #49  
Old 11.02.2012, 19:26
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Re: I love this country

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I'm from south Mississippi! Welcome! (Note to all: Southerners are taking over EF, please start using the word y'all)

I completely agree with you- I'm a country girl- people have to realize that greater New Orleans (for example) is the size of Zurich, so anything bigger than that overwhelms me. I live outside of Zurich just far enough away to see a few farms when I go walking. I love the trains and I love how low-key Switzerland is.

So, welcome again!
Lol, I have a deep southern accent, so it comes out. I am not fond of big cities, and I don't really like Zurich all that much. I prefer Bern, or Lausanne.
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Old 11.02.2012, 19:30
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Switzerland is an acquired taste. Olten especially. I also think it depends on the company you hold as much as it does on Location. But another benefit of living in Switzerland is how fast you can get to other places. 2 hour flight you're in London, a 3.5 hour TGV trip you are in Paris. Not bad for me... quite like it here.
8 or so hours you are in Venice. It's pretty much a hub, which is another reason I like Switzerland.
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Old 11.02.2012, 19:33
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Re: I love this country

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You're better off NOT bother ing with a TV here. You'll end up having to pay for the Billag (TV license) which isn't cheap. It's the norm in pretty much all European countries. I remember the sticker shock I got when I opened the bill



Yes, that would be advisable. Try to come for an extended stay, if possible, before you take the plunge, to get a better idea of daily life here. Because as many times as one may visit a place, it is never the same as actually living there day in and day out.

Best of luck to you!
Oh I lived there for sometime, I spent the majority of one visit shopping and thus forth for my poor Fiance after she fell down stairs, answering my phone call...I got introduced to the Swiss ER system, and how to follow the red line lol.
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  #52  
Old 11.02.2012, 19:37
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Re: I love this country

I agree. Less than a year as an expat in CH and I am smitten. Not saying it is perfect, just right for me.
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Old 11.02.2012, 19:38
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In America it is easy to become enslaved by debt. I had it happen to me, and I am just now out of debt. Everyone talks about how expensive Switzerland is, but that is really only if you eat out a lot, have a car, and expect to live in the city. We have done the math, and me and my fiance can live comfortably off of her salary until i find a job (and she makes a decent living, but not more). You can't do that in the states.

But then it all depends on what you value, and what you want to do. I am a very inexpensive person to keep around, and we both don't care much for television, movies, nights out on the town and thus forth. If I was going to fancy clubs all of the time, eating out, had a car, living off one salary for even a short time would be a very dangerous proposition.
Exactly...and what you wrote is just plain common sense as well. In Switzerland you are able to focus on more important things and not be consumed by "consumerism." Another reason why Switzerland is expensive is because they still manufacture in Switzerland. It is not unusual to find something "made in Switzerland" in America people are begging for something "made in America." However, with America doing away with the middle class, and shipping jobs overseas, they "threw out the baby with the bath water" because now people don't have the money to buy the products they are shipping over!

Plus, Switzerland pays salaries comparable with a certain standard of living. In the US people are expected to feed a family of five on minimum wage. Or work 2-3 jobs. And this is one reason why America is broke, they economy is built on debt, money in the air, everywhere but nothing substantial. The Swiss are more intelligent with the way they run the country all-the-way-round. Despite any issues they may have or go through, they manage to take care of them and still end up on top. Switzerland even tops US in competitiveness, yet the country is 50 times smaller...I don't mind giving up 24/7 shopping for a good quality of life, which is what Switzerland offers.
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  #54  
Old 11.02.2012, 19:41
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this is actually the best advice we were given before we moved, which is especially handy right now since I am completely crippled with the man-flu. bring over as much as you can fit in your luggage of cold medicines, aspirin, ibuprofen, vitamins (if you take any regularly), sleeping aids, etc.
I used to do this then just ended up with lots of expired medicine.

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MiniMia, one thing to keep in mind: much of the "bitching" may be related to which part of the country one lives in. For instance, someone living in Zurich or the German part of the country may complain about something that relates to the Germanic culture and that you don't see because you live in the Romandie and the culture is more French/Latin. I have a good friend who's lived in the Romandie for 20+ years and he's told me he could never live in the German part of the country because he would be incompatible with the culture here and totally miserable. Whenever I've told him about some of things I've experienced here, he always tell me "it's a whole different world in this part of the country." So, yes, we might as well live in different universes
Oh, yes. I'm very well aware of this. There is no chance in hell you'd get me to move to the German part of the country. Although, I LOVE Fribourg, so I could go bi-lingual.

Don't get me wrong I'd never say Switzerland was perfect. Just that I love living here. When I want/need more excitement I run off somewhere bigger, then I come home to my small town. The idea of living in NYC makes me break out in hives. I did the big city living and don't want to do it again. (SF on the other hand... sigh. I could probably live NEAR SF in a small town on the ocean).

Of course I'm married and already did the clubbing all night thing before I moved here. If I were in my early 20's and single I'd high tail it out of here faster than you can say "high tail it out of here".

I understand how horrible it feels to be unhappy some place. However, going on about it endlessly and reading about others who also go on about it endlessly only reinforces those bad feelings. It's a vicious circle. When you are unhappy surrounding yourself with positive energy is so much better for you. I know, sometimes it's easier said than done.

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I think it is a bit of a stretch to declare that he/she is not experiencing personal growth and is immature or short of "true happiness" just because he/she misses the availability of 24/7 shopping and finds the culture of NYC more exciting than Switzerland.
Like I said, the idea of living in NYC makes me break out in hives. () but I totally agree with you.
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Old 11.02.2012, 19:43
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I would have to agree. Like LMerkel, I'm also from New York. While there are aspects of life I love here, there are are things I miss from "back home." I've gotten used to stores with limited opening hours, but it's taught me to plan better, so it's not an issue for me anymore. I've also gotten used to the dearth of choices here in terms of food, clothing and other items, but I've found ways around that by doing cross-border shopping and ordering what I need from abroad.

But with respect to professional growth, Switzerland has not been good for me. As a woman, it's almost impossible to advance or move up in companies here, no matter how educated or experienced. My career has stagnated here. I've seen some Swiss co-workers given preferential treatment, although they consistently underperform and don't really add value in a team. I've both seen and experienced mobbing and attempts to sabotage my job performance by my lovely Swiss ex-colleagues and ex-manager, who seemed to view my work experience and education as a threat rather than an asset!

I've spoken to other women here from the US/UK and other places who also make the same complaints and are also frustrated professionally. FWIW, I've also met Swiss women who were frustrated with corporate life here, especially after they had children and were driven out of the workplace. Some were at least able to start their own businesses.

With respect to personal growth, back in New York, I often went to lectures, took workshops, short courses and the like to "better myself" derive intellectual stimulation and broaden my knowledge. Those courses/lectures/workshops either don't exist here, because there's little to no demand or, if they are available, they're all in German, which I have not yet mastered well enough to be able to participate in or derive any benefit from a course or workshop. So I have to settle for trying to find alternatives online or attending workshops and the like during visits to New York.

None of these grievances means I am immature or short of true happiness, and it would be absolutely ridiculous for anyone to infer such a thing. The reality is that there are limitations here for those of us who want to do more, and it's got nothing to do with any so-called "emotional hoopla, egotistical energy to feed off of."
Thinking of that, it's one of the other things that do disappoint me about Switzerland. My fiance has to deal with issues like that, and caveman like bosses...But things change.
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Old 11.02.2012, 19:46
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Re: I love this country

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OP, if you're reading this, keep in mind, that there are no emergency pharmacies in the vicinity and if you need cough syrup or an aspirin, you'll have to go to the emergency room. I know some people who found out the hard way. (free of charge tip..didn't mean to instigate)

Followed 3 months later by a bill for 300 CHF. And that's your copay. Sorry. I have to be blunt.

....all in all... I'm down on CH lately but I'm not miserable here. I really do like (aspects of) it. But when it comes to a total quality of life package.... there's no place like home.
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Old 11.02.2012, 19:50
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Re: I love this country

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Exactly...and what you wrote is just plain common sense as well. In Switzerland you are able to focus on more important things and not be consumed by "consumerism." Another reason why Switzerland is expensive is because they still manufacture in Switzerland. It is not unusual to find something "made in Switzerland" in America people are begging for something "made in America." However, with America doing away with the middle class, and shipping jobs overseas, they "threw out the baby with the bath water" because now people don't have the money to buy the products they are shipping over!

Plus, Switzerland pays salaries comparable with a certain standard of living. In the US people are expected to feed a family of five on minimum wage. Or work 2-3 jobs. And this is one reason why America is broke, they economy is built on debt, money in the air, everywhere but nothing substantial. The Swiss are more intelligent with the way they run the country all-the-way-round. Despite any issues they may have or go through, they manage to take care of them and still end up on top. Switzerland even tops US in competitiveness, yet the country is 50 times smaller...I don't mind giving up 24/7 shopping for a good quality of life, which is what Switzerland offers.
Switzerland companies pay you a living wage, it is as simple as that. I think it has to do with the fact that Switzerland is a little more community minded, than the states, which is more about the individual. It is a culture thing mostly.

I really don't need stuff. Odd sort of irony, is I got out of my US debt by selling all of my things on ebay and otherwise. And I am not talking about any small amount.
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Old 11.02.2012, 19:53
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Re: I love this country

given the seeming trend in some of the posts, I would only add that if you are coming to Switzerland because you don't like the States (or wherever you're living now) you are bound to be sorely disappointed. there are loonies everywhere, and on a percentage basis the folks here are just as likely to drive you nuts as the folks in Alabama. the good news, of course, is that there are 50 times fewer people here, so although the percentages may be the same the raw number of unpleasant encounters should significantly decrease.

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Old 11.02.2012, 20:11
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Re: I love this country

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My post wasn't relating to "professional growth" and jobs. And what you experience here as far as your career goes, happens "everywhere" as far as women are concerned. Nothing new there. Just because a person holds a certain professional job does not mean that they are mature. One has nothing to do with the other. Remember the story a few years ago about the woman who worked at Nassau in the United States? She was an astronaut, for goodness sakes! What does she do? She was in a love affair with a married man who dumped her. She drives like 7 or 8 hours, wearing a DIAPER, so she wouldn't have to stop for the bathroom, in order to kill her rival, his wife. This woman had master degrees, studied physics the whole nine-yards. Do you think she was mature?

You keep relating to "back in New York." You haven't "fully" accepted the fact that you are not "back in New York" you are in Switzerland. And once you "completely" accept that fact, you can "grow" into the new individual that's trying to emerge through your experiences in Switzerland.
Does that mean you're going to stop whinging about the US from now on? You seem to manage to work in at least one rant about it in every post. I mean, you're fully integrated here now, right? You're not a hypocrite are you?
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Old 11.02.2012, 20:13
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Re: I love this country

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Exactly...and what you wrote is just plain common sense as well. In Switzerland you are able to focus on more important things and not be consumed by "consumerism." Another reason why Switzerland is expensive is because they still manufacture in Switzerland. It is not unusual to find something "made in Switzerland" in America people are begging for something "made in America." However, with America doing away with the middle class, and shipping jobs overseas, they "threw out the baby with the bath water" because now people don't have the money to buy the products they are shipping over!

Plus, Switzerland pays salaries comparable with a certain standard of living. In the US people are expected to feed a family of five on minimum wage. Or work 2-3 jobs. And this is one reason why America is broke, they economy is built on debt, money in the air, everywhere but nothing substantial. The Swiss are more intelligent with the way they run the country all-the-way-round. Despite any issues they may have or go through, they manage to take care of them and still end up on top. Switzerland even tops US in competitiveness, yet the country is 50 times smaller...I don't mind giving up 24/7 shopping for a good quality of life, which is what Switzerland offers.


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