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Old 26.11.2008, 11:32
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Re: Why are ladies in Switzerland so attractive?

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Not at all. You made it clear that there is a difference between 'going out as friends' and 'dating'.

I see no difference, other than the implied promise of squishiness, sweat and sticky sheets.

At least on those occasions where I've fallen into bed with a friend after a few beers, there's been no hint of the covert commercial nastiness that 'dating' implies.

I buy you dinner: I get a **** = nasty, medieval, old-fashioned, bordering on prostitution.

I go out for a few drinks, have a laugh: Maybe go to bed with another consenting adult, in a spirit of equality = how modern grown ups do things.
I find her attitude just as antiquated as you, but at the same time, I really can't blame her. She's just playing the cards she's been dealt. And there are men who are obviously more than happy (or desperate enough) to let her get away with it, so I say let 'em. The guys who have enabled her for years and years are just as guilty.

And I find men often get needlessly mad at women and get into arguments when they find out what their "standards" are (paying for the first two dates, etc.) I always take them with a grain of salt. If I've learned anything, is that most women are more than willing to forego a few of their rules and preconcieved notions of what they want in a man, if the right man comes along. Do you honestly think every man that a woman with a supposed 'pay for date 1 & 2' rule has been with actually had to do it? Don't make me laugh. A good female friend of mine once told me, "You know how women say 'take the best, f**k the rest'? Well, we often mean it literally."
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  #502  
Old 26.11.2008, 11:50
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Re: Why are ladies in Switzerland so attractive?

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I don't mean to sound bitter
Do not worry you don't sound bitter at all...erm

BTW Is driving a Mercedes SUV the epitome of success? I enjoy travelling by public transport: no worries about parking, the price of petrol, car insurance...It makes life so much easier.

Last edited by martin34; 26.11.2008 at 12:44.
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  #503  
Old 26.11.2008, 15:29
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Re: Why are ladies in Switzerland so attractive?

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I enjoy it too, about 8 months out of the year.

No, my point is not that its successful. Clearly she isnt. She got this car because of who she is married to. It was adding to Dougals argument about women who expect to get things from a man they are with. If all a woman expects you to do is buy 2-3 dinners for her...you should be so lucky! There are enough women out there who will only sell themselves to the highest bidder
I think it also gives women a bad name. I'd be a bit embarrassed if a chap wanted to pay for my meal on a first date (or second for that matter). It would feel like that was what his Dad told him was "the right thing to do in my day, son" before he went out.

If he is a modern-thinking man and knew I had a reasonable job I would respect him more if he assumed we would split the bill.

Incidentally, one first date I went on I had to pay the whole bill because the chap I was with had a problem with his bank card and couldn't get the money out of the cash machine.

It can't have affected me that much because I married him .
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  #504  
Old 26.11.2008, 15:37
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Re: Why are ladies in Switzerland so attractive?

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Do not worry you don't sound bitter at all...erm

BTW Is driving a Mercedes SUV the epitome of success? I enjoy travelling by public transport: no worries about parking, the price of petrol, car insurance...It makes life so much easier.
lol,

I do have a beautiful BMW convertible, wide tires, low springs, roaring engine, leather and wood interiors, Booming stereo sound etc etc. the kind the girls elsewhere go woooahh!, ( but here is kind of a common car anyway ), and I use it very little, only when I have to transport people or things ( so it is more like an small and uncomfortable VAN than an sports car ).

But I go everywhere in the city on my bike. And I am very happy when the girl has a bike too and we bike together to places.
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  #505  
Old 26.11.2008, 15:55
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Re: Why are ladies in Switzerland so attractive?

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No, my point is not that its successful. Clearly she isnt. She got this car because of who she is married to. It was adding to Dougals argument about women who expect to get things from a man they are with. If all a woman expects you to do is buy 2-3 dinners for her...you should be so lucky! There are enough women out there who will only sell themselves to the highest bidder
See, I have a hard time seeing a problem in this. It's back to "playing the cards you've been dealt" that I talked about before. Plenty of women I've talked to (most of these tend to be in Law, weirdly) admit that they won't go out with a guy unless he's got a certain amount of money or social status. It also threw me off at first, but then I tried to see things from their point of view. If you have all these choices available to you, why settle for less when you don't have to? Should every attractive woman do a few ugly guys with a good personality as "community service" before moving on to the men that she actually finds attractive and will provide for her the lifestyle she wants? (Like a filthy rich guy really minds he's being played as long as he's got a hot chick in his bed every night.)

Now that women are liberated, you have to take the good with the bad. You can't say that you're happy that women are free and then get angry when the choices they make displease you. The quote in my sig seems very pertinent now, and, as much as we don't want to admit it, often applies to everyone, men and women. Why work hard when you could have everything handed to you?

And karma does tend to bite trophy wives in the arse in their later years when they realize they're 40, divorced, and never bothered to develop a personality. So it all works out in the end.
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I think it also gives women a bad name. I'd be a bit embarrassed if a chap wanted to pay for my meal on a first date (or second for that matter). It would feel like that was what his Dad told him was "the right thing to do in my day, son" before he went out.

If he is a modern-thinking man and knew I had a reasonable job I would respect him more if he assumed we would split the bill.

Incidentally, one first date I went on I had to pay the whole bill because the chap I was with had a problem with his bank card and couldn't get the money out of the cash machine.

It can't have affected me that much because I married him .
In a perfect world, all women would think like you, but that's not the case at all. I definitely agree that it gives women a bad name, but I'm just saying that most people, men and women, would act like this given the right circumstances. No need to get mad about it like men tend to do sometimes, just live your life and find someone who's worth it.
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  #506  
Old 26.11.2008, 16:12
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Re: Why are ladies in Switzerland so attractive?

[quote=Salsa_Lover;355884]lol,

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I do have a beautiful BMW convertible, wide tires, low springs, roaring engine, leather and wood interiors, Booming stereo sound etc etc. the kind the girls elsewhere go woooahh!, ( but here is kind of a common car anyway ), and I use it very little, only when I have to transport people or things ( so it is more like an small and uncomfortable VAN than an sports car ).
Well, now I know. I find that the choice of a guy's car is inversely proportional to a certain appendage.
You posted earlier- something about it not being the size of the boat but being able to steer it to point G? Sadly this is a 'Phallussy' commonly used by men with an inferiority conplex. Excessive biking can wreck fertility.

If I take a guy out I pay. Why? because most think that if they pay they are entitled to a certain respect. If I pay I am in control. The car wll only work with some women who can't figure out that it is probably on credit and can't afford one themselves. There are definite signs to whether a man has collatoral or not. Firstly, he has to be able to really drive what he has.
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  #507  
Old 26.11.2008, 16:14
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Re: Why are ladies in Switzerland so attractive?

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And I find men often get needlessly mad at women and get into arguments when they find out what their "standards" are (paying for the first two dates, etc.) I always take them with a grain of salt. If I've learned anything, is that most women are more than willing to forego a few of their rules and preconcieved notions of what they want in a man, if the right man comes along.
Quite true - and vice versa, I suspect. It's much easier to feel that a generic partner ought to treat you a certain way than it is to insist that a specific one do so.


Another point of view on the whole man-paying bit.

I come from a pretty conservative, old-fashioned background. The way I grew up there was usually no physical contact at all on the first few dates. Maybe a goodnight kiss on the cheek but even that would have been pushing it. Most dates were also casual and preferably in a group setting. Under the circumstances, who-pays-for-what was a very practical way of clarifying whether this was a date or just two friends going out for pizza. After a while you knew where you stood - whether you were dating, or just tended to be hungry at the same time - and in either case things tended to get a lot more equitable; on the first few outings it really was quite scripted, though, and you'd better follow the script to avoid misunderstandings. Whoever had done the asking (almost always the guy - like I said, bit old-fashioned) was expected to offer to pay, the other was expected to demur and offer 50/50, and who insisted and who acquiesced after that gave you both some insight into what was going on.

So yeah, I guess I'd have "dumped" a guy who didn't offer to pay on the first date - or to be more exact, I'd have concluded that he must not have been thinking of it as a date in the first place. And if I'd insisted on 50/50 and wouldn't take no for an answer - or if I'd not offered to pay after being the one to ask him out - the guy would have come to the same conclusion and "dumped" me.

I'm not saying it's the appropriate solution in general, just that it can be something more benign than the institutionalized greed and semi-prostitution and all that that it's being painted as. Sometimes it's just cultural - another signal sent and received, another way to try and read each other's minds.
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  #508  
Old 26.11.2008, 16:15
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Re: Why are ladies in Switzerland so attractive?

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lol,


Well, now I know. I find that the choice of a guy's car is inversely proportional to a certain appendage.
You posted earlier- something about it not being the size of the boat but being able to steer it to point G? Sadly this is a 'Phallussy' commonly used by men with an inferiority conplex. Excessive biking can wreck fertility.

If I take a guy out I pay. Why? because most think that if they pay they are entitled to a certain respect. If I pay I am in control. The car wll only work with some women who can't figure out that it is probably on credit and can't afford one themselves. There are definite signs to whether a man has collatoral or not. Firstly, he has to be able to really drive what he has.
Why does anyone feel like they have got to be "in control"?? Why can't people just go for dinner for going for dinner's sake?

This world is getting too complicated for me...

Last edited by Sandgrounder; 26.11.2008 at 16:42.
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  #509  
Old 26.11.2008, 16:41
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Re: Why are ladies in Switzerland so attractive?

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Also, I dont agree with your generalization that ugly guys have good personalization and that all rich guys are handsome. Anna Nicole Smith anyone?
Anne Nicole Smith was an extreme sugar daddy case. I admit I shouldn't have generalized with "ugly guys with a good personality", in fact I added the "good personality" part shortly before posting and now realize it was a mistake because it dilutes the point I trying to make. However, I didn't say anything about the rich guys' looks, I just said men she finds "attractive", and that's mainly because attraction works much differently for women than it does for men. For men attraction is mostly physical, but for women, I'd say looks are secondary to personality, confidence, and power. I know good looking guys who are completely useless with women and average looking guys who can pick up a girl any time they want. Unless you look like Brad Pitt, you're not getting any if you have no game.
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  #510  
Old 26.11.2008, 16:42
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Re: Why are ladies in Switzerland so attractive?

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No, my point is not that its successful. Clearly she isnt. She got this car because of who she is married to. It was adding to Dougals argument about women who expect to get things from a man they are with. If all a woman expects you to do is buy 2-3 dinners for her...you should be so lucky! There are enough women out there who will only sell themselves to the highest bidder
What bothers me in your reasoning is that you seem to presume that her only goal in life was to:
  1. Marry a rich guy
  2. Get the guy to buy her a nice car
...but you don't know anything about her. Maybe it's her father's car? Maybe she met a guy one evening and liked him without knowing he was rich? Maybe her man works in the town center so he borrowed her little car for the day, she then had to make do with the guy's cumbersome SUV? Who knows?

I don't think that women are generally as vain as you seem to imagine. At least not in Switzerland because they can earn enough to be independant.
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  #511  
Old 26.11.2008, 17:18
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Re: Why are ladies in Switzerland so attractive?

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Why does anyone feel like they have got to be "in control"?? Why can't people just go for dinner for going for dinner's sake?

This world is getting too complicated for me...
To a guy that isn't threatened I would only be in control of paying the meal- big deal!

To me though I only go out with a guy if I am seriously interested in a long term relationship.
Women who won't go out with men unless they have money are insecure. They are either worried that their image will be affected or that they are going to be milked.They may be in a dog eat dog world where people use each other as stepping stones or image enhancers.
Collateral has to be more than just money or sex.
It doesn't have to be dinner, it could be a picnic or spontaneous coffee. The thing I hate is women who lead men on, it is so cruel. If you are not interested tell them- up front, but politely.
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  #512  
Old 26.11.2008, 17:48
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Re: Why are ladies in Switzerland so attractive?

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To a guy that isn't threatened I would only be in control of paying the meal- big deal!

To me though I only go out with a guy if I am seriously interested in a long term relationship.
Women who won't go out with men unless they have money are insecure. They are either worried that their image will be affected or that they are going to be milked.They may be in a dog eat dog world where people use each other as stepping stones or image enhancers.
Collateral has to be more than just money or sex.
It doesn't have to be dinner, it could be a picnic or spontaneous coffee. The thing I hate is women who lead men on, it is so cruel. If you are not interested tell them- up front, but politely.
What an exhausting and ridiculous way of going on dates. Glad I don't know anyone like that. I wonder what these people are like if they are faced with something truly complicated like the weekly grocery shop..?

"Not buying Heinz beans - too common, not buying meals-for-one - I look too desperate, must buy condoms or I look like I'm not getting any..."
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  #513  
Old 26.11.2008, 18:13
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Re: Why are ladies in Switzerland so attractive?

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To me though I only go out with a guy if I am seriously interested in a long term relationship.
I don't understand this at all. Don't you think that you are limiting your options a little by not being open to any un-planned encounters? No wonder it's so difficult to get a date sometimes if women are waiting for an opening in their schedule before they will entertain a night out.

Some of my best relationships have started with a chance encounter and often the more you plan and look forward to something, the less fun it will be.
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  #514  
Old 26.11.2008, 18:16
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Re: Why are ladies in Switzerland so attractive?

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Once they share one's bed, they tend to cease being entertaining company, and merely become deceitful, whining, loathsome harpies.

Better to keep them as friends. As lovers, they're just a ****ing pain in the arse.
Each to thier own!
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  #515  
Old 26.11.2008, 18:21
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Re: Why are ladies in Switzerland so attractive?

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I don't understand this at all. Don't you think that you are limiting your options a little by not being open to any un-planned encounters? No wonder it's so difficult to get a date sometimes if women are waiting for an opening in their schedule before they will entertain a night out.

Some of my best relationships have started with a chance encounter and often the more you plan and look forward to something, the less fun it will be.
Nope! I don't share boldily fluids with a chance encounter. Once I make my decision, it usually because I am pretty sure of fireworks and I am prepared to do my utmost to make sure it happens. I am not a risk taker.
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  #516  
Old 26.11.2008, 18:47
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Re: Why are ladies in Switzerland so attractive?

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Nope! I don't share boldily fluids with a chance encounter. Once I make my decision, it usually because I am pretty sure of fireworks and I am prepared to do my utmost to make sure it happens. I am not a risk taker.
Fair enough. But I didn't mention sharing bodily fluids, do you have something on your mind
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  #517  
Old 26.11.2008, 19:14
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Re: Why are ladies in Switzerland so attractive?

I guess it depends what you compare with.
And of course - what you find attractive :-)
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  #518  
Old 26.11.2008, 19:30
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Re: Why are ladies in Switzerland so attractive?

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Fair enough. But I didn't mention sharing bodily fluids, do you have something on your mind
Sometimes it's hard to be a woman!

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  #519  
Old 26.11.2008, 19:42
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Re: Why are ladies in Switzerland so attractive?

Fantastic! Britney with a beehive!
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  #520  
Old 26.11.2008, 21:37
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Re: yaseen25khalifa@yahoo.com.ph

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Sometimes it's hard to be a woman!
With a hairstyle like that it would be pretty much hard to be anything.

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Who is this directed at Aminata? What exactly are you asking?
I think he like yoooooo
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