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  #21  
Old 09.03.2012, 22:37
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Re: Traditional Swiss households are more harmonious?

I being married to this Irish women for 43 years now ,she still thinks she is the boss
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Old 10.03.2012, 00:53
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Re: Traditional Swiss households are more harmonious?

Have fixed these suggestions for a good marriage, think there were a few typos.


1. a husband and wife plan their life together
2. they respect each others decisions
3. they practice good self-care by doing things for their own enjoyment as well as the family
4. they give and receive compliments and gifts graciously
5. they express gratitude for the things the other does
6. they are not afraid to show their vulnerability and support each other
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Old 10.03.2012, 11:11
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Re: Traditional Swiss households are more harmonious?

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The six principles from the list given in the article are:

a wife relinquishes control of her husband's life
she respects his decisions for his life
she practices good self-care (she does at least three things a day for her own enjoyment)
she also practices receiving compliments and gifts graciously
she practices expressing gratitude (thanking her husband for the things he does)
a surrendered wife is not afraid to show her vulnerability and take the feminine approach
Continuing in an abusive, alcoholic, or adulterous relationship is not promoted or condoned

Sounds like a recipe for letting a man walk all over you to me.

"A wife relinquishes control of her husband's life". What control? Does he also relinquish control of her life?

"She respects his decisions for his life". Fair enough I suppose, but there are two people in a marriage so does he respect her decisions for her life as well? And if those decisions are not the same, is she really supposed to just accept he knows best because he's a man and she's a woman?

As for the rest, well they seem to be making big assumptions that husbands are going to give compliments and gifts and actually do something their wives need to express gratitude for. Will he also express his gratitude for what she does? And what the heck is a feminine approach, weeping tears on his big, strong shoulder?

The only decent "principle" in the whole thing is the last one.

The sort of men (American at least) that this would appeal to already come home from work, expecting to find their meal on the table and then spend the rest of the evening downing beers in front of the TV, moaning like hell when wife/kids make too much noise.

I fear that the concept will only result in men pressuring their wives to "surrender" simply to boost their male egos and make them feel better about themselves.

Please! This crap should be consigned to the rubbish bin where it belongs. It's really just another form of abuse.
It is this attitude that makes equality in men's lives so difficult at this time. Women have fought hard for equality but men have not kept pace in a number of areas so the "equality" for men falls behind, especially so after divorce.
"I want a strong man"
"I want a career"
"I want to be treated like a woman and feel femine"
"I want my husband/partner to play a big role in our child's life"
"I want ........"
Most men don't think this way, "what do I want" until they have given everthing away in the name of equality and end up a shell of their former selves. Sure men over time have (and in some cases still do) abuse this position but equally a lot of women today are doing the same thing.
Marriage and partnership is about surrender from both sides, surrender requires strength not passivity, sure consideration should be given to who is best at what tasks and who has the time to do them. The fundementals of any team require a leader and a follower but if you throw out all the bull____ and get back to what we all want and need in an intimate relationship, mens and womens needs and wants are different so there can never be "perfect equality" and this is ok.
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  #24  
Old 10.03.2012, 11:19
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Re: Traditional Swiss households are more harmonious?

On a lighter note, my grandmother (a very stong woman with great sense of humour) when asked about her marriage "We both had our roles, he was the head of the house and my role was to make sure he believed that was the case", that way everyone is happy.
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Old 10.03.2012, 11:30
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Re: Traditional Swiss households are more harmonious?

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This statement kinda goes against the extremely high divorce rate in this country.
Well that number is so high because younger women don't see the benefits of a traditional Swiss household any more and want their own life... bloody oulandish influence...
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Old 10.03.2012, 11:42
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Re: Traditional Swiss households are more harmonious?

but the main problem is that their husbands cannot adapt to their new independence. If you knew the number of men here I know, who after divorce, went to 'find' another woman from parts of the world where they can find partners who will be 'happy' to be subservient. (which does not always last very long once they have their passport and alimony).
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Old 10.03.2012, 11:45
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Re: Traditional Swiss households are more harmonious?

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a swiss woman i talked to claimed that swiss households are more harmonious due to the more traditional male/female split of responsibilities and the 'surrendered wife' concept (which admittedly i never heard of before)

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/ladies-...ives-here.html

what do you think of this? i think a few women i know would have their heads explode on reading this
This woman must be some 96 years old, and beside that is simply wrong, as there is no such difference between Switzerland "and the rest" as she assumes. But in that advanced age a bit of dementia may excuse a lot
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Old 10.03.2012, 11:50
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Re: Traditional Swiss households are more harmonious?

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well the concept is not really about who works or not - more about having the man be the 'head of the house'.

In other words the concept which was dominant in the 1950ies but gradually lost out in the 1960ies
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Old 10.03.2012, 11:54
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Re: Traditional Swiss households are more harmonious?

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Well that number is so high because younger women don't see the benefits of a traditional Swiss household any more and want their own life... bloody oulandish influence...
Not necessarily, as the average marriage lasts 14.5 years and thats right around that time when kids get a little more independant IMO. Not sure why the divorve rate is higher than in other countries...

http://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/portal/e...nk/key/06.html
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Old 10.03.2012, 12:11
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Re: Traditional Swiss households are more harmonious?

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This statement kinda goes against the extremely high divorce rate in this country.

The divorce-rate in the 1950ies was NOT high
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Old 10.03.2012, 12:20
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Re: Traditional Swiss households are more harmonious?

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This woman must be some 96 years old, and beside that is simply wrong, as there is no such difference between Switzerland "and the rest" as she assumes. But in that advanced age a bit of dementia may excuse a lot
My mother would have strongly objected to this - she would have been 97 next month, but died aged 94. She was an exceptional (Swiss) modern woman well before her time, studied abroad, traveled, intelligent... and incredibly beautiful too. Her first marriage failed due to her first husband being unable to accept her independence of spirit and desire to work. She then found my dad, who all his life accepted with good grace that she was the head of household, the main breadwinner - but in such a graceful way. She loved him because he could do all the things she couldn't or wouldn't, DIY, gardening, decorating and they shared their love of nature, skiing, mushroom hunting and the simple things in life. In the 50s, it took a BIG man to accept that his woman was mostly in charge.

Last edited by Odile; 10.03.2012 at 18:37.
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Old 10.03.2012, 12:26
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Re: Traditional Swiss households are more harmonious?

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My mother would have strongly objected to this - she would have been 97 next month, but died aged 94. She was an exceptional (Swiss) woman well before her time, studied abroad, traveled, intelligent... and incredibly beautiful too. Her first marriage failed due to her first husband being unable to accept her independence of spirit and desire to work. She then found my dad, who all his life accepted with good grace that she was the head of household, the main breadwinner - but in such a graceful way. She loved him because he could do all the things she couldn't or wouldn't, DIY, gardening, decorating and they shared their love of nature, skiing, mushroom hunting and the simple things in life. In the 50s, it took a BIG man to accept that his woman was mostly in charge.

And my mother who would now be 94 would have joined. BUT in the 1950ies, a lot still was in the old rails, even if things had started moving. Major changes, not only in Switzerland, came with the 1960ies.

Let's add that many above90yearsolds are NOT in dementia. My uncle in HyŤres on my first visit was 98 and on the second visit 99 and was completely clear until his end at age 102. He only at 100 stopped hacking wood and at 101 stopped writing letters and only made phone calls.
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Old 10.03.2012, 13:26
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Re: Traditional Swiss households are more harmonious?

I don't really have any problems with the concept. Equality in a relationship to me is more about the happiness of both people and less about the financial and task-related differences that might exist within the relationship.
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Old 10.03.2012, 13:36
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Re: Traditional Swiss households are more harmonious?

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I don't really have any problems with the concept. Equality in a relationship to me is more about the happiness of both people and less about the financial and task-related differences that might exist within the relationship.
I do not see the question to be in regard to finances and tasks. Mum had quit her job when marrying, but never felt "subordinate" and Dad never felt "superior". Dad often explained it like this "I am the state-president and my wife is the prime-minister"
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Old 10.03.2012, 13:45
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Re: Traditional Swiss households are more harmonious?

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I do not see the question to be in regard to finances and tasks. Mum had quit her job when marrying, but never felt "subordinate" and Dad never felt "superior". Dad often explained it like this "I am the state-president and my wife is the prime-minister"
Actually, in her book the writer does discuss finances and tasks as part of the concept - namely that the man should be responsible for finances and the wife should receive a stipend of sorts.

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing really. What I'm saying is that it's not the concept that's good or bad - but the applicability to the people who practice it. It would absolutely not work for me and my husband, for instance, but might for others. And if both sides feel happy with how they lead their lives, that to me is equality.
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Old 10.03.2012, 13:47
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Re: Traditional Swiss households are more harmonious?

Perhaps every second household is happy. The other half is stricken in the throes of addiction, financial woes, children issues or damaged marital relationships.
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Old 10.03.2012, 13:50
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Re: Traditional Swiss households are more harmonious?

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Perhaps every second household is happy. The other half is stricken in the throes of addiction, financial woes, children issues or damaged marital relationships.
I doubt it, as that is the actual divorce rate, not taking into consideration the likes of "let's stick together for the kids", "we've been together 30 years already" and the "what would the neighbors think" crowd.
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Old 10.03.2012, 14:15
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Re: Traditional Swiss households are more harmonious?

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Marriage and partnership is about surrender from both sides, surrender requires strength not passivity, sure consideration should be given to who is best at what tasks and who has the time to do them. The fundementals of any team require a leader and a follower but if you throw out all the bull____ and get back to what we all want and need in an intimate relationship, mens and womens needs and wants are different so there can never be "perfect equality" and this is ok.
I almost agree with you. I would say compromise rather than surrender and yes consideration must come into division of tasks/responsbilites. Consideration is not what is being advocated here, unfortunately.

I'm a housewife these days and as such I don't expect my man to help much with household chores/tasks, but when we both worked I expected a helping hand with some of the cleaning at least, especially as he worked nearer to our residence and was home earlier than me. I worked just as hard as he did, so why should I then be expected to look after everything "wifey" as well without some help/input from him?

If a "surrendered wife" is supposed to give up control of others then she is also giving up control of herself, as she places every decision in her life in the hands of her husband.

I understand that there are people to whom this concept appeals and yes, who also like to live this way. If they are happy and have a good life, that's the main thing to remember. But for me it's just a form of voluntary slavery.
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  #39  
Old 10.03.2012, 15:48
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Re: Traditional Swiss households are more harmonious?

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but the main problem is that their husbands cannot adapt to their new independence. If you knew the number of men here I know, who after divorce, went to 'find' another woman from parts of the world where they can find partners who will be 'happy' to be subservient. (which does not always last very long once they have their passport and alimony).
Bingo! I was almost going to mention this, because a Swiss colleague of my husband's told him once that a lot of Swiss men prefer to marry Asian and South American women because they think they make better wives. He said Swiss women are too materialistic, demanding and don't take care of themselves to keep attractive. They believe women from those other countries are more traditional and will be content with staying home, raising children and with whatever the man can provide.

This man had been through a Swiss wife, a Spanish wife and was about to marry wife No. 3 from Brazil and he had kids with all of them.
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Old 10.03.2012, 16:36
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Re: Traditional Swiss households are more harmonious?

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Actually, in her book the writer does discuss finances and tasks as part of the concept - namely that the man should be responsible for finances and the wife should receive a stipend of sorts.
.
But exactly this is most exceedingly stupid. If I look back at my grandparents in Schaffhausen it was indeed grandfather who kept his good job as accountant and correspondent for DE/FR/EN, but at home, grandmom who had been a top accountant in a doubtful company, of course was in charge with finance. Couples should decide on the basis of advantages and disadvantages
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