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Old 09.03.2012, 20:58
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Traditional Swiss households are more harmonious?

a swiss woman i talked to claimed that swiss households are more harmonious due to the more traditional male/female split of responsibilities and the 'surrendered wife' concept (which admittedly i never heard of before)

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/ladies-...ives-here.html

what do you think of this? i think a few women i know would have their heads explode on reading this
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Old 09.03.2012, 21:02
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Re: Traditional Swiss households are more harmonious?

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a swiss woman i talked to claimed that swiss households are more harmonious due to the more traditional male/female split of responsibilities and the 'surrendered wife' concept (which admittedly i never heard of before)

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/ladies-...ives-here.html

what do you think of this? i think a few women i know would have their heads explode on reading this
Maybe more harmonious in a Stepford Wives sort of sense ....
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Old 09.03.2012, 21:03
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Re: Traditional Swiss households are more harmonious?

I couldnt be bothered to read it to be honest. But when me and OH have a kid and child care will be expensive, then its him that will quit his job. And this is not an option but its out of necessity.
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Old 09.03.2012, 21:10
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Re: Traditional Swiss households are more harmonious?

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I couldnt be bothered to read it to be honest. But when me and OH have a kid and child care will be expensive, then its him that will quit his job. And this is not an option but its out of necessity.
well the concept is not really about who works or not - more about having the man be the 'head of the house'.
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Old 09.03.2012, 21:24
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Re: Traditional Swiss households are more harmonious?

Mrs Rutland ! I can assure you, having lived very close to Rutland, that many more women in Rutland or Hampshire (etc) think that way - compared to here in Romandie. I lived in Stepford's wives UK for a long time, and was surrounded by women like this. I would never have survived had we not moved away and me gone back to studying and back to work. And if that sort of thinking was required to be married, I would defo not be with the same man after 42 years.

I was stopped by a market researcher in the centre of a UK town, and the first question was 'what is the age of the Head of household?'. My reply 'there is no Head of household in our house, sorry'. 'Oh but there must be, who is the breadwinner and the highest earner? 'My OH, I am not working at the moment' 'well then that's easy, so HE is the HOH'. Me 'no, bye'. She 'of well it doesn't matter really, can't we just pretend and put his name down for the survey' Me, NO, good bye' walks away.

Last edited by Odile; 09.03.2012 at 21:36.
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Old 09.03.2012, 21:31
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Re: Traditional Swiss households are more harmonious?

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well the concept is not really about who works or not - more about having the man be the 'head of the house'.

I dont agree with what they say. Both are equal in the relationship. So what if the man brings home the money. Sometimes its the other way around.

As lonh as both discuss major expenses, i dont see why the woman should ask the man if she can have any small thing...
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Old 09.03.2012, 21:34
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Re: Traditional Swiss households are more harmonious?

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I dont agree with what they say. Both are equal in the relationship. So what if the man brings home the money. Sometimes its the other way around.

As lonh as both discuss major expenses, i dont see why the woman should ask the man if she can have any small thing...
maybe you should read it before commenting as you are arguing against something completely different. it is nothing to do with who earns the money. summary follows:

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The author of the core book of this movement maintains that she does not advocate submissiveness or the surrendering of one's self; she proposes the surrendering of control over others.
The "Surrendered Wives" movement is centered around six basic principles:
  1. a wife relinquishes control of her husband's life
  2. she respects his decisions for his life
  3. she practices good self-care (she does at least three things a day for her own enjoyment)
  4. she also practices receiving compliments and gifts graciously
  5. she practices expressing gratitude (thanking her husband for the things he does)
  6. a surrendered wife is not afraid to show her vulnerability and take the feminine approach
Doyle responds that many critics appear to have little knowledge of the principles described in the book and simply react to what they imagine the book says.
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Old 09.03.2012, 21:38
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Re: Traditional Swiss households are more harmonious?

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maybe you should read it before commenting as you are arguing against something completely different. it is nothing to do with who earns the money. summary follows:
I did read it but i guess i interpreted it differently. Not worth arguing about it
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Old 09.03.2012, 21:44
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Re: Traditional Swiss households are more harmonious?

Actually this concept of the surrendered wife is found in many churches. There are even verses in the Bible that support, from their point of view, this interpretation:
Ephesians chapter 5:
"22 Wives, be in subjection unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.23 For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, being himself the saviour of the body.24 But as the church is subject to Christ, so let the wives also be to their husbands in everything.25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself up for it"

Do not groan at me I am just presenting a point of view...
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Old 09.03.2012, 21:46
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Re: Traditional Swiss households are more harmonious?

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maybe you should read it before commenting as you are arguing against something completely different. it is nothing to do with who earns the money. summary follows:
Sounds like they are the perfect customers for my new Maid-O-Tron 2000! Can you please forward me their contact information!? Operators are standing by!
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Old 09.03.2012, 21:47
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Re: Traditional Swiss households are more harmonious?

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Actually this concept of the surrendered wife is found in many churches. There are even verses in the Bible that support, from their point of view, this interpretation:
Ephesians chapter 5:
"22 Wives, be in subjection unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.23 For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, being himself the saviour of the body.24 But as the church is subject to Christ, so let the wives also be to their husbands in everything.25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself up for it"

Do not groan at me I am just presenting a point of view...
well the interesting thing is it also chimes with some eastern views of the household but more about 'face'.

i was with a friend and we watched the wife of a severely hen-pecked husband berate him over something or other in public and we were both a bit aghast.

my friend (from HK) said "that woman is so stupid, she is showing her husband no face at all. doesn't she realise that the wife of a husband with no face also no face herself?"
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Old 09.03.2012, 21:50
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Re: Traditional Swiss households are more harmonious?

The six principles from the list given in the article are:

a wife relinquishes control of her husband's life
she respects his decisions for his life
she practices good self-care (she does at least three things a day for her own enjoyment)
she also practices receiving compliments and gifts graciously
she practices expressing gratitude (thanking her husband for the things he does)
a surrendered wife is not afraid to show her vulnerability and take the feminine approach
Continuing in an abusive, alcoholic, or adulterous relationship is not promoted or condoned

Sounds like a recipe for letting a man walk all over you to me.

"A wife relinquishes control of her husband's life". What control? Does he also relinquish control of her life?

"She respects his decisions for his life". Fair enough I suppose, but there are two people in a marriage so does he respect her decisions for her life as well? And if those decisions are not the same, is she really supposed to just accept he knows best because he's a man and she's a woman?

As for the rest, well they seem to be making big assumptions that husbands are going to give compliments and gifts and actually do something their wives need to express gratitude for. Will he also express his gratitude for what she does? And what the heck is a feminine approach, weeping tears on his big, strong shoulder?

The only decent "principle" in the whole thing is the last one.

The sort of men (American at least) that this would appeal to already come home from work, expecting to find their meal on the table and then spend the rest of the evening downing beers in front of the TV, moaning like hell when wife/kids make too much noise.

I fear that the concept will only result in men pressuring their wives to "surrender" simply to boost their male egos and make them feel better about themselves.

Please! This crap should be consigned to the rubbish bin where it belongs. It's really just another form of abuse.
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Old 09.03.2012, 21:54
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Re: Traditional Swiss households are more harmonious?

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a swiss woman i talked to claimed that swiss households are more harmonious due to the more traditional male/female split of responsibilities and the 'surrendered wife' concept (which admittedly i never heard of before)

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/ladies-...ives-here.html

what do you think of this? i think a few women i know would have their heads explode on reading this
This statement kinda goes against the extremely high divorce rate in this country.
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Old 09.03.2012, 22:02
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Re: Traditional Swiss households are more harmonious?

This thread reminded me of this article: "Nobel Economist Says 'Identity' Can Make Your Spouse Do More Housework."

A quote:

Quote:
In this model, the stereotyped, red-blooded American male takes a hit to his identity when his wife earns more money than he does, and a further hit when he does housework. To bring the "utilities" of husband and wife back into balance, she does more housework. It's not fair, it's not right, but it continues to be the behavioral economic reality of our culture, even in this supposedly evolved age of 2012.
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Old 09.03.2012, 22:03
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Re: Traditional Swiss households are more harmonious?

Indeed - marriages and relationships where one party (as seen, usually the woman) does not subjugate to the other, are much more difficult to successfully lead long-term. (One of my nieces is doing a long-term in depth study of the reasons for the high divorce rate in Romandie, and the answers are very complex). And in that sense the premise is right that marriages à la Stepford are, sort of, more 'harmonious'. But wrong, or so wrong. I wouldn't want any part of it- and neither would my (very special) OH.

Equality does not mean being 'equal' as in the same. We are indeed like chalk and cheese, and yet equal because of our glorious differences.

Last edited by Odile; 09.03.2012 at 22:38.
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Old 09.03.2012, 22:05
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Re: Traditional Swiss households are more harmonious?

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This thread reminded me of this article: "Nobel Economist Says 'Identity' Can Make Your Spouse Do More Housework."

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hmm. interesting article! thanks.
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Old 09.03.2012, 22:10
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Re: Traditional Swiss households are more harmonious?

Indeed! Love the ending:
"If you're a husband trying to get your wife to do more housework... well, shame on you."


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hmm. interesting article! thanks.
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Old 09.03.2012, 22:13
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Re: Traditional Swiss households are more harmonious?

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a wife relinquishes control of her husband's life
she respects his decisions for his life
.

I have not read the whole book, just excerpts, but according to those, by "his life" she means the life of the whole family. Meaning that the man should make all decisions, the wife should not question or doubt those. Also amongst the principles are "Relies on him to handle household finances". If he has any ideas he wants to discuss with the wife, even if she has any of her own or disagrees, she is only supposed to say "Whatever you think!"

Well, of course this household is harmonious, if by this you mean lack of disagreements. Following those principles, he does whatever he wants - and has to take all the responsibility - and she can't say anything. harmony!

Not something I would want to try. But whatever works for different people, I guess.
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Old 09.03.2012, 22:32
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Re: Traditional Swiss households are more harmonious?

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The six principles from the list given in the article are:

a wife relinquishes control of her husband's life
she respects his decisions for his life
she practices good self-care (she does at least three things a day for her own enjoyment)
she also practices receiving compliments and gifts graciously
she practices expressing gratitude (thanking her husband for the things he does)
a surrendered wife is not afraid to show her vulnerability and take the feminine approach
Continuing in an abusive, alcoholic, or adulterous relationship is not promoted or condoned

Sounds like a recipe for letting a man walk all over you to me.
Exactly, this is the problem I have with it too. I've got no problem in respecting my husband - but if decisions or choices affect me too then as far as I'm concerned I have an equal right to express my opinion and yes, to override if I have a case.

Surrendering - just the word sounds repulsive to me to be honest. And more to the point I can't imagine my husband wanting a sweet little flower of a wife who never disagrees with him and thanks him for walking in the door.

What's more, when we married we agreed to share everything - decisions, money, love, all of it, shared. And yes we have some domesticated arrangements - I cook, he cleans the kitchen. I do washing, he does bins. But equality, sharing, mutual understanding, these are far more important than anything else.

Surrender - rubbish.

However, I actually don't believe this is the way Swiss households are at all. Yes women are generally more likely to be found at home with the kids than in other places I lived, and many women believe that's how things should be - but that doesn't at all mean they are surrendered.
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Old 09.03.2012, 22:35
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Re: Traditional Swiss households are more harmonious?

If a "surrendered" wife is supposed to "give up control of others", then she can't possibly be in charge of looking after the kids as she's not supposed to "control" anyone. Bet hubbies really like that.

To really give up control of others, don't bother to get married in the first place. Or have a boyfriend. Just be yourself as you were meant to be.
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