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Old 02.05.2012, 23:00
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Wealthy Americans Queue to Give Up Their Passports

It is very sad in my opinion, even I'm not (and I've never been!) US citizen. What do you think about it?

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...s-capital.html
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Old 02.05.2012, 23:38
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Re: Wealthy Americans Queue to Give Up Their Passports

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It is very sad in my opinion, even I'm not (and I've never been!) US citizen. What do you think about it?

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...s-capital.html
Why is it sad? People who live for years in Switzerland already are being taxed double, get a lot of hassle and all the negativity for being US while they likely do never want to return back to that country as they have settled in elsewhere where they are fully contributing to society.


Now if these 'wealthy americans' are living most of the year in the US and then drop their US citizenship, that would indeed be sad as then they are just doing it primarily to evade taxes.
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Old 02.05.2012, 23:52
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Re: Wealthy Americans Queue to Give Up Their Passports

My 19 year old daughter just informed me that once her US passport runs out next year, she's thinking of giving up her US citizenship rather than get a new one.

Of course, as she also has Canadian and Swiss citizenships, this is probably the best path.

Good thing she thought of it before I had to have a father/daughter talk!

Tom
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Old 02.05.2012, 23:52
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Re: Wealthy Americans Queue to Give Up Their Passports

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Why is it sad? People who live for years in Switzerland already are being taxed double, get a lot of hassle and all the negativity for being US while they likely do never want to return back to that country as they have settled in elsewhere where they are fully contributing to society.
I agree. It's farcical that the US citizens abroad are forced into filing tax returns, even though they are no longer resident. I'm very surprised that many more people aren't already doing this (although I do realise that not everybody has a second citizenship to which they can turn)
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Old 03.05.2012, 00:00
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Re: Wealthy Americans Queue to Give Up Their Passports

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I agree. It's farcical that the US citizens abroad are forced into filing tax returns, even though they are no longer resident. I'm very surprised that many more people aren't already doing this (although I do realise that not everybody has a second citizenship to which they can turn)
I've been Swiss for 15 years, but only got around to giving up my US citizenship three years ago, simply because I couldn't be bothered to waste a day going to Bern to do so.

But, as my US passport expired in 2006, it was either that or get a new one, which would also entail a trip to Bern, so I decided to be done with it.

Now, if I could have used my Swiss passport to enter/leave the US, maybe I wouldn't have renounced, but that's not how it works.

Tom
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Old 03.05.2012, 00:01
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Re: Wealthy Americans Queue to Give Up Their Passports

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Now, if I could have used my Swiss passport to enter/leave the US, maybe I wouldn't have renounced, but that's not how it works.

Tom
So does it now mean for you that you must apply for a tourist visa when travelling back to the States?
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Old 03.05.2012, 00:04
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Re: Wealthy Americans Queue to Give Up Their Passports

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So does it now mean for you that you must apply for a tourist visa when travelling back to the States?
No, not with the new Swiss passports.

Tom
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Old 03.05.2012, 00:04
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Re: Wealthy Americans Queue to Give Up Their Passports

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I agree. It's farcical that the US citizens abroad are forced into filing tax returns, even though they are no longer resident. I'm very surprised that many more people aren't already doing this (although I do realise that not everybody has a second citizenship to which they can turn)
Would it be better to not give the new born child a U.S. citizenship till later and let them decided if they want it? Especially after being born here and since the other spouse in from here that they will never go back. As a double citizen he or she would always have to file double taxes. They could always fly to U.S, on visa's Besides could also go to a school in the U.S. as a foreign exchange student later. And probably could get their citizenship later in they needed it. Just a thought or wondering if it is better. You only need to register their birth right? Or maybe not even that?
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Old 03.05.2012, 00:08
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Re: Wealthy Americans Queue to Give Up Their Passports

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Would it be better to not give the new born child a U.S. citizenship till later and let them decided if they want it? Especially after being born here and since the other spouse in from here that they will never go back. As a double citizen he or she would always have to file double taxes. They could always fly to U.S, on visa's Besides could also go to a school in the U.S. as a foreign exchange student later. And probably could get their citizenship later in they needed it. Just a thought or wondering if it is better. You only need to register their birth right? Or maybe not even that?
Actually, unless both parents are US citizens, US citizenship of a child born abroad is not automatic.

You have to register, show that the US parent has spent enough years in the US, etc.

Thus, unless my daughters move to the US or marry a US citizen, their future children cannot be US citizens.

Tom

P.S. Had I had any male children, I would NOT have obtained US citizenship for them, because of the US draft laws.
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Old 03.05.2012, 00:37
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Re: Wealthy Americans Queue to Give Up Their Passports

couple of things to point out here:

1. there are somewhere over 312 million folks living in the US. somehow I don't think 1,700 people giving up their passports is all that meaningful.

2. we Americans might "wait in line", but we never, ever, under any circumstance, "queue up".

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Old 03.05.2012, 00:38
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Re: Wealthy Americans Queue to Give Up Their Passports

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Would it be better to not give the new born child a U.S. citizenship till later and let them decided if they want it? Especially after being born here and since the other spouse in from here that they will never go back. As a double citizen he or she would always have to file double taxes. They could always fly to U.S, on visa's Besides could also go to a school in the U.S. as a foreign exchange student later. And probably could get their citizenship later in they needed it. Just a thought or wondering if it is better. You only need to register their birth right? Or maybe not even that?
Depending on the US citizenship situation of the parent or parents...

Yes, that is exactly the course taken after some major abuse by the embassy some 10 years ago. Also, like Tom said, had issues with the draft. Further, as US citizenship is not automatic for a child of only one US citizen parent, you have to go though a complex proof, it was like a slap in the face but definitely has its advantages these days. However, the US so desperate for cash, who knows what crazy rules/laws they may enact in the future.
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Old 03.05.2012, 00:39
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Re: Wealthy Americans Queue to Give Up Their Passports

What I find sad - and frightening - are the reader's comments posted after the article.

Paints a pretty accurate picture of the misperceptions, lack of understanding, and the distrust we overseas Americans face from folks back home.
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Old 03.05.2012, 00:45
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Re: Wealthy Americans Queue to Give Up Their Passports

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couple of things to point out here:

1. there are somewhere over 312 million folks living in the US. somehow I don't think 1,700 people giving up their passports is all that meaningful.


Only for the fact that these figures are not correct and horribly mis-leading. There is much discussion on some other boards (isaac brock society and renounce us citizenship) as to the inaccuracies of the IRS produced Federal Register 'name and shame' list. Many who have renounced do not appear, some prominent figures do not appear, children do not appear, relinquishers to not appear, some think it is only those subject to the exit tax, while others have other theories.

What is clear is that the list is seriously an under-representation of persons giving up US citizenship. Yet there is a distinctive trend, no matter what the absolute figures show.
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Old 03.05.2012, 00:45
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Re: Wealthy Americans Queue to Give Up Their Passports

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It is very sad in my opinion, even I'm not (and I've never been!) US citizen. What do you think about it?

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...s-capital.html
Sad is that US tax authorities want to tax US citizens living abroad

The article however did NOT mention clearly enough that only US citizens who have a second citizenship can give up their US citizenship. I actually don't know how many percent of US Americans in Europe also have citizenship of their countries of residence.
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Old 03.05.2012, 00:55
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Re: Wealthy Americans Queue to Give Up Their Passports

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What I find sad - and frightening - are the reader's comments posted after the article.

Paints a pretty accurate picture of the misperceptions, lack of understanding, and the distrust we overseas Americans face from folks back home.
I encourage you or any others here to jump into the discussions on the Bloomberg disqus comments to help correct some of these grossly misguided misperceptions.
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Old 03.05.2012, 00:57
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Re: Wealthy Americans Queue to Give Up Their Passports

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The article however did NOT mention clearly enough that only US citizens who have a second citizenship can give up their US citizenship.
Technically, you can give up US citizenship without having another citizenship. Problem is you are then stateless and traveling these days can be difficult. But there are some who have gone this route, some guy who has a blog in Slovakia as I recall, quite the rebel.
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Old 03.05.2012, 01:02
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Re: Wealthy Americans Queue to Give Up Their Passports

it's not large in absolute terms, but looking at the rate of increase from 2008, it is pretty interesting.

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couple of things to point out here:

1. there are somewhere over 312 million folks living in the US. somehow I don't think 1,700 people giving up their passports is all that meaningful.

2. we Americans might "wait in line", but we never, ever, under any circumstance, "queue up".

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Old 03.05.2012, 01:06
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Re: Wealthy Americans Queue to Give Up Their Passports

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It is very sad in my opinion, even I'm not (and I've never been!) US citizen. What do you think about it?

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...s-capital.html
Why sad? I give up and take new citizenships like a hooker picks up STDs
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Old 03.05.2012, 01:08
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Re: Wealthy Americans Queue to Give Up Their Passports

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What I find sad - and frightening - are the reader's comments posted after the article.

Paints a pretty accurate picture of the misperceptions, lack of understanding, and the distrust we overseas Americans face from folks back home.
Yes, thats the result of the 'class war' that is being deliberately waged by the media and politicians. As always, its the middle class that will have the most to lose.
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Old 03.05.2012, 01:14
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Re: Wealthy Americans Queue to Give Up Their Passports

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Only for the fact that these figures are not correct and horribly mis-leading. There is much discussion on some other boards (isaac brock society and renounce us citizenship) as to the inaccuracies of the IRS produced Federal Register 'name and shame' list. Many who have renounced do not appear, some prominent figures do not appear, children do not appear, relinquishers to not appear, some think it is only those subject to the exit tax, while others have other theories.

What is clear is that the list is seriously an under-representation of persons giving up US citizenship. Yet there is a distinctive trend, no matter what the absolute figures show.
we have too many damned Americans already. this article reminds me of the old joke about lawyers - you know what they call 1,700 Americans giving up their US passports?

a good start.

btw, the more interesting stat is that net immigration from Mexico fell below 0 this past year.
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