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  #101  
Old 06.05.2012, 22:36
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Re: Living in a Religious Dominated Place

Let's not forget that holiday derives from holy day of which there are many worldwide.

As an agnostic I'm quite happy to "fit in" with whatever holidays there may be, it's part of the life in the country I'm living in and I wouldn't expect them to change their way of life for me. It can be a pain sometimes, but the peace and quiet is also nice on a Sunday.

America certainly has more than one religious holiday, KeinFranzösisch. As well as the obvious Christmas, there's Easter and Halloween (All Hallows Eve leading to All Saints Day, another religious holiday here in Switzerland in some cantons).

And although they may not be holidays as such St. Patrick's Day, Valentine's Day and April Fool's Day are also derived from religion.
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  #102  
Old 06.05.2012, 22:44
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Re: Living in a Religious Dominated Place

I'm agnostic, I like free, calm Sundays and everybody who doesn't like them is free to leave Switzerland. If you have a problem that Sundays are discriminatory towards other religions, then it's a problem of those religious people. If they weren't religious, they wouldn't care that Sunday is the free day here and not Friday or whatever.

As a foreigner I don't feel offended by the Swiss national day. If you want to work on holidays, choose something like an emergency call center or nurse. Without holidays, we would be working 365 days a year, which would make more slaves out of us than following the religious holidays as it is now.

And from a personal experience: renters who wash their cars while blasting their nationalistic East-European music at full volume on a Sunday are annoying.

In the end, I don't know if you're trolling or just stupid.

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Swiss Germans stick to the rules and the rule is no work or noise on a sunday. Nothing to do with religion -
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just with narrowed-minded people...
this caused me to groan. They're not narrow-minded, they're social.
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  #103  
Old 06.05.2012, 22:53
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Re: Living in a Religious Dominated Place

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Swiss National Day is not religious. If you are a Swiss muslin, the holiday is still important to you. Anyone who is Swiss. Again, my issue stems from religious, not national holidays. Swiss national day does not exclude anyone Swiss. Ascension excludes all Swiss who are not Christian.

Christmas is the one exception because it has really lost any semblance of religion. I have Jewish friends who put up a tree and give out presents. It is all commercial now. Tell me how it is fair that my Jewish student was supposed to come to school on both Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur, but was told he had to stay home on good Friday and Ascension.
A) First of all, it is Muslim (and not Muslin) a bit of respect please
B) Ascension gives a day OFF to all NON-Christians
C) Christmas is the period when many people attend church services who do not do so throughout the year
D) If you are Catholic and live in a Protestant Canton, you have to work on Catholic holidays, and if you are Protestant and live in a Catholic Canton you have to work on Protestant holidays. There is no Jewish Canton and so the Jews as a consequence of this have to work of their religious holidays. Muslims in Western countries so have to work on Friday, and Christians in Muslim countries have to work on Sunday.
E) your Jewish student was NOT told by anybody to "stay home" on Good Friday, but that he simply could do whatever he liked
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  #104  
Old 06.05.2012, 23:00
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Re: Living in a Religious Dominated Place

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True for the past and in many homogenous areas, but many places are beginning to realize with the mixing of people, the migration of cultures and the rise of science and technology, that religion is being pulled out of the mix of current culture. Of course there are places with almost no immigration and nearly 100% of the population is of the same belief system, but last time I checked Switzerland was nearly 25% non-Swiss. There is a huge rise of Islam, hindi and jewish faiths. The US used to have a similar Christian only approach, but as times changed, they had to as well. Some politicians try to force it back in, but it only really works in small concentrated areas like the deep south. Maybe a canton like Appenzeller might not have this issue, but Bern with its embassies, Geneva with the international influence and Zurich with it's large foreign populations should start to change with the times.
People who are NOT Swiss citizens have no vote and therefore are legally irrelevant
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  #105  
Old 06.05.2012, 23:19
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Re: Living in a Religious Dominated Place

hmmmm - not a particularly helpful comment Wolli - but of course 'tongue and cheek'. Natives do have a duty to reach out to incomers, just as incomers have to make an effort to adapt - surely
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  #106  
Old 06.05.2012, 23:20
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Re: Living in a Religious Dominated Place

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Those religious holidays are now just great excuses for keeping a high quality of living thy the Swiss are so found of. Noise and work on Sundays does not count as high quality living.
"high quality of living" its a very vaporous concept used by some to impose their will!
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  #107  
Old 06.05.2012, 23:21
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Re: Living in a Religious Dominated Place

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Nope - even if I look like an aged version of the Vicar of Dibley, lol. You get atheists in vicarages when the Church tax is democratically voted as optional and the Church runs out of money... and has to sell its heritage ...
Sounds like an excellent argument for disestablishmentarianism.

Someone up above heard sermons about Christians in danger of treating Sunday just like any other day. I think it is far better to treat every day as if it were Sunday - the day off is irrelevant. (Hebrews 4:9-10 )
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  #108  
Old 06.05.2012, 23:32
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Re: Living in a Religious Dominated Place

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hmmmm - not a particularly helpful comment Wolli - but of course 'tongue and cheek'. Natives do have a duty to reach out to incomers, just as incomers have to make an effort to adapt - surely
Right and wrong. I mean, if you are not a citizen, you in most countries are NOT voting. And imagine that my pleasant neighbour Mr Sh...., who is Armenian even once he becomes CH citizen will not have too much influence as being member of a "remote" minority, "Natives" SHOULD reach out to incomers indeed but how many really DO ?? Most not only do NOT but even refuse to do so. "Incomers" have a chance if moving ahead in an organized way. Prof.Dr. A.... of Egypt origin two years ago moved his wider family into CH citizenship and into SP membership and into local politics. I met one of his two sons in front of Migros at his SP stand and promised to support them. And on the elections "we" managed to reduce the local SVP to size ! What a happy day
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  #109  
Old 07.05.2012, 00:17
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Re: Living in a Religious Dominated Place

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"Natives" SHOULD reach out to incomers indeed but how many really DO ??
Well apparently in some communities, my own included, SVP sends you an invite to join them once you get the little red book
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  #110  
Old 07.05.2012, 01:31
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Re: Living in a Religious Dominated Place

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Yes....you hit it on the head.....finally. That WOULD be a great idea but the Swiss have a LAW against that. My point proven. I always remember as a little kid, my grandma would always forget something for the Christmas Dinner and we would go to the little Chinese market and they would be open because SURPRISE.....they don't celebrate Xmas. Here that would be AGAINST THE LAW. My point proven about religion being FORCED on people who do not believe.
You can always go back home!..A simplistic retort I know..
I am not religious but do love a hike on Sundays in the stunning alps..that's my place of "worship" ! Europe has so many wonderful traditions that are influenced by the history here...some are inspired by religion. Open your eyes
and learn a little bit of the history which is intertwined with religion that influences interesting customs. I find it an interesting learning experience !
Why don't you look at it that way ?
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  #111  
Old 07.05.2012, 09:28
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Re: Living in a Religious Dominated Place

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Good Friday and Easter Monday and Ascenscion/Auffahrt are NOT Catholic holidays but also Protestant holidays.
Good Friday isn't a holiday in Ticino (nor is January 2nd).

Tom
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  #112  
Old 07.05.2012, 09:52
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Re: Living in a Religious Dominated Place

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This has nothing to do with nationality, nor is this a "Swiss" issue.
I didn't say it has anything to do with nationality - but rather with being forced to celebrate something that to you is irrelevant. Why do you treat religion differently?
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  #113  
Old 07.05.2012, 13:20
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Re: Living in a Religious Dominated Place

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I didn't say it has anything to do with nationality - but rather with being forced to celebrate something that to you is irrelevant. Why do you treat religion differently?
Yeah. Like, Flag day! I mean, seriously?.... which I had to suffer through not only in the US but in Argentina! Like really? Who celebrates a piece of textile?
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  #114  
Old 07.05.2012, 13:42
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Re: Living in a Religious Dominated Place

Well, not the Brits since the National Front and the English Defence League have nicked said piece of textile for themselves.
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  #115  
Old 07.05.2012, 13:58
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Re: Living in a Religious Dominated Place

I f peace and quite is so important in Sundays, why do church bells here make so much noise? I do not know any country where they ring as much.
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  #116  
Old 07.05.2012, 14:15
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Re: Living in a Religious Dominated Place

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I f peace and quite is so important in Sundays, why do church bells here make so much noise? I do not know any country where they ring as much.
Good point dack rambo!
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  #117  
Old 07.05.2012, 14:26
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Re: Living in a Religious Dominated Place

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I'm agnostic, I like free, calm Sundays and everybody who doesn't like them is free to leave Switzerland. If you have a problem that Sundays are discriminatory towards other religions, then it's a problem of those religious people. If they weren't religious, they wouldn't care that Sunday is the free day here and not Friday or whatever.

As a foreigner I don't feel offended by the Swiss national day. If you want to work on holidays, choose something like an emergency call center or nurse. Without holidays, we would be working 365 days a year, which would make more slaves out of us than following the religious holidays as it is now.

And from a personal experience: renters who wash their cars while blasting their nationalistic East-European music at full volume on a Sunday are annoying.

In the end, I don't know if you're trolling or just stupid.


I wanted to give you a thanks until...

this caused me to groan. They're not narrow-minded, they're social.


Nobody is saying that HOLIDAYS have to be abolished!!
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  #118  
Old 07.05.2012, 14:30
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Re: Living in a Religious Dominated Place

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And from a personal experience: renters who wash their cars while blasting their nationalistic East-European music at full volume on a Sunday are annoying.

Oh, and this is for you

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  #119  
Old 07.05.2012, 17:29
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Re: Living in a Religious Dominated Place

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I f peace and quite is so important in Sundays, why do church bells here make so much noise? I do not know any country where they ring as much.
Ahahah you haven't lived in rural England, have you? There ringing Church bells is actually a hobby - and the peels of Church bell practice can last for up to 2 HOURS. I've lived close to a village Church in 2 separate locations in England - so I know . I now live next to a Church here - and the bells don't half ring as often. Our flat in the UK has bells ringing right through the night. Midnight = 4 x 4 = 16 + 12. Boing boing boing boing boing boing boing boing boing boing boing, and so on! No chance of lying awake and not knowing what time it is, that's for sure.

A lot quieter and sweeter sounding than the 'call to prayers' in some countries, lol.
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  #120  
Old 07.05.2012, 17:48
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Re: Living in a Religious Dominated Place

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I f peace and quite is so important in Sundays, why do church bells here make so much noise? I do not know any country where they ring as much.
Actually they ring a lot on most days... It goes back to when the farmers and artisans did not have clocks.... Tradition once again!
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